What Happened to Submission Finishers in the WWE?

golfguy

Over the last couple of years we have seen the decline in the number of Submission Finishers in the WWE, we used to have Ric Flair's figure four, Punk's anaconda vise, HBK inverted figure four, Benoit's crossface, Jericho's Walls of Jericho( which has recently returned from its watered down version), Cena's STFU, just off the top of my head. I mean i love most of the finishers currently used, but how's Punk supposed to GTS a Mark Henry or a larger wrestler like that. With the Anaconda vise it opens up another option. We used to have submission matches, but those seem to no longer exist.

So my question is why did the submission finishers disappear and should they make a return or not? And which wrestlers do you think would benefit from having a submission finisher?

callaway92

Because they slow pace of match down and are boring

CMpunked

golfguy wrote: »

but how's Punk supposed to GTS a Mark Henry or a larger wrestler like that.

The way the punk is being booked lately he would be buried before he even got to attept a finisher.

golfguy wrote: »

So my question is why did the submission finishers disappear and should they make a return or not? And which wrestlers do you think would benefit from having a submission finisher?

What about Takers triangle Choke?

I'd say the wwe bookers realised at last that most wrestlers cant sell the submission very well.
The amount of times you can cringe when a wrestler gets something as simple as a headlock and then gets let go holding his ribs or his arm doesnt make sense.

gimmick

Because they slow pace of match down and are boring

^ Thats bollocks. Submissions if anything add to the excitement of a match. If you are go completely mark ish, the end of a match can come at any time due to a oppurtunist submission attempt, much like in MMA.

OP, you mentioned quite a number of submission finsihers there. Undertaker uses his gogapolata sub in addition. So, submissions finishers are still very prominent.

CMpunked

gimmick wrote: »

^ Thats bollocks.

Whats bollocks?! :mad:...

*notices edit*
..Oh..

gimmick wrote: »

Submissions if anything add to the excitement of a match. If you are go completely mark ish, the end of a match can come at any time due to a oppurtunist submission attempt, much like in MMA.

I thought it was rumored that the wwe was going a little more mma a while back?
Wonder what happened there

Kid Nothing

Been thinking this lot lately, watching some of Bret Hart's matches and once the Sharpshooter was on, you knew it was over. These days people are consistently getting out of submission moves which makes them less effective to the crowds.

I think one of the main reasons they got rid of them was so that wrestlers wouldn't have to tap out, making them look weak in the process, e.g. when was the last time you saw Cena/ HHH/ Michaels/ Taker lose by submission?

Going back to the Bret Hart point, back then if it was applied the crowd would be huge into it cause they knew it was over, but today the crowd are expecting people to get out of the moves and so aren't half as interested. There's plenty of wrestlers using submission moves but I can't think of the last time someone won using one.

Bubs101

Submission finishers are a great way to get heels over so I'm really surprised at the lack of them. One reason could be that since the WWE seems to be taking alot more notice of MMA they could see their finishers as very unrealistic compared to say and armbar or a kimora where you'll see people tap after like 5 seconds as opposed to say billing the Crippler as some massive finish only to have people stay in it for 45 seconds to make the ropes

golfguy

You got a top star like Orton who I have never seen useing a submission move in my life

Fozzy

golfguy wrote: »

You got a top star like Orton who I have never seen useing a submission move in my life

The chinlock doesn't count?!

I remember that Punk was asked to use the Go 2 Sleep rather than the Anaconda Vice as they only wanted one "submission guy" in the company, that being Benoit at the time

Bounty Hunter

Fozzy wrote: »

The chinlock doesn't count?!

I remember that Punk was asked to use the Go 2 Sleep rather than the Anaconda Vice as they only wanted one "submission guy" in the company, that being Benoit at the time

the whole benoit thing could have had a knock affect on decisions about submissions too imo, notthe main reason but an added infleunce in why maybe there is a reluctance for a number of wrestlers to perform differnt locks to induce pain that could be replicated by others on the now pg programming.

CMpunked

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

the whole benoit thing could have had a knock affect on decisions about submissions too imo, notthe main reason but an added infleunce in why maybe there is a reluctance for a number of wrestlers to perform differnt locks to induce pain that could be replicated by others on the now pg programming.

Thats a very good point.
Casting m mind back to the days of primary school i remember that when we used to have "matches", they used to be just trying to do submission moves on each other.
Obviously because its harder to do most grapple moves when you dont know that 99%* of all moves are a co-operation.
The walls of jericho always looked great on the grass. One guy used to shout out "Eat it Bitch!" while burying the guys face into it.
Good times.

*Statistic pulled out of my as$