Reality & Garda Management

daithip

Just want to run it by a few of you lads, but I am seriously questioning as to whether you lose touch with reality when you become management. The reason I say this, is that the other day I was privy to the expectations of our District and Divisional officers while examining the Divisional crime statistics, they laughably stated that they expected detection rates for theft in the coming year to be around 80% . I believe that the national detection rate is around 36%, so am I wrong in thinking that when you are promoted you totally forget everything that you knew beforehand???

Eru

Detection rates differ greatly from district to district for all sorts of offences. Some have high rates for theft, low for assault or drugs and vice versa.

80% really depends on what your current detection rate is. They will always try to push the figures up a bit.

daithip

I understand that, but is it not a bit unrealistic, just to let you know, I'm talking about a country division not the DMR where shoplifters can account for a large proportion of theft figures. Think unless we recruit Magnum P.I. the figures will remain a is..

Eru

daithip wrote: »

I understand that, but is it not a bit unrealistic, just to let you know, I'm talking about a country division not the DMR where shoplifters can account for a large proportion of theft figures. Think unless we recruit Magnum P.I. the figures will remain a is..

Yeah but in some small areas the local gouger does pretty much all the nicking and a lot less of it. Sams goes for say, drugs. A small area may only have a handful of captures but its probable catching a lot more thats in the area than somewhere thats swamped with dealers.

Its swings and roundabouts really but the way I see it, the biggest problem in recent years theft wise are holiday thiefs and that will slow down with the economy. I know one lad working in a 1 man station, nothing happening day in day out until certain ethnic minorities started busing in for the day and fleecing the place then vanishing back onto buses.

Also, dont overestimate how much thefts are shoplifters. Its a common enough opinion but they are not the majority everyone thinks they are.

eroo

Eru wrote: »

Also, dont overestimate how much thefts are shoplifters. Its a common enough opinion but they are not the majority everyone thinks they are.

That fact I can see as being quite true indeed, as certain chains/company's have a policy of retrieve stolen goods and release thief, that their security personnel must follow. Certain 'European' stores operate this policy. No matter how many times a person may be caught shoplifting, they will always be released without involving Gardai and will not even receive a ban on entering the premises.

Esel

eroo wrote: »

Certain 'European' stores operate this policy. No matter how many times a person may be caught shoplifting, they will always be released without involving Gardai and will not even receive a ban on entering the premises.

Name these stores, please. For research purposes only, you understand.

goldie fish

eroo wrote: »

That fact I can see as being quite true indeed, as certain chains/company's have a policy of retrieve stolen goods and release thief, that their security personnel must follow. Certain 'European' stores operate this policy. No matter how many times a person may be caught shoplifting, they will always be released without involving Gardai and will not even receive a ban on entering the premises.

Missing the point.
Most larceny from retail stores is not from the shop floor, but from the back door. Shoplifters are not the real lossmaker. Staff are.

daithip

goldie fish wrote: »

Missing the point.
Most larceny from retail stores is not from the shop floor, but from the back door. Shoplifters are not the real lossmaker. Staff are.

I guess that's why you see most cctv ponting towards the till, keeping an eye on light fingered employees.

metman

daithip wrote: »

they laughably stated that they expected detection rates for theft in the coming year to be around 80% . I believe that the national detection rate is around 36%, so am I wrong in thinking that when you are promoted you totally forget everything that you knew beforehand???

Good isn't it? Raise the target for detections when resources on the ground are being cut, overtime is non-existent, pay is being frozen/stolen and morale is a distant memory. This is the same no matter which force you work for; sh*t rolls down hill.

The government is under fire so wants to have something positive to read out in the Dail, so....what can we improve in the law and order portfolio.....lets have better stats. So pressure is put on the Commissioner who subsequently puts the pressure onto divisional commanders yadda yadda yadda. Workloads go up, stress levels go up, sickness level go up while morale goes down and people leave the job, work to rule, or transfer to a handier number.

If the powers that be want crimes cleared, to quote The Wire, cases gotta go green before they go black.

As for management losing touch? At that level its not police work, its politics, so yep plot firmly lost.

eroo

goldie fish wrote: »

Missing the point.
Most larceny from retail stores is not from the shop floor, but from the back door. Shoplifters are not the real lossmaker. Staff are.

That is correct goldie. But it is very hard to crack down on staff theft in large stores. Unless they are caught red handed there is very little that can be done. Security can be detailed to search staff at shift turnovers/closing hours, but staff are within their rights to refuse to be searched. Management can fire them, but will probably find themselves in court if that employee wont admit to what they've done and wants to get some compo.:rolleyes: Gardai can be called, but if that staff member manages to dump item(s); then Gardai arrive and search them but find nothing.. security guard can be sued for false arrest. Again, certain stores would let even staff off, while firing them, but would almost certainly not call the Gardai. So a lot of thefts are not being reported to Gardai.. utterly ridiculous!

goldie fish

It comes down to "what have we to gain by reporting it?"

eroo

goldie fish wrote: »

It comes down to "what have we to gain by reporting it?"

They have the opportunity to rid themselves of repeat offenders if they involve the Gardai, but alas they will not. However one supermarket chain will call the Gardai for any theft; whether it's 8 or 9 pairs of jeans or a chocolate bar the Gardai will be called. Stores need to have a flexible policy that uses discretion where necessary, but comes down hard where necessary too.

That would help Gardai as their time would not be wasted dealing with very very minor thefts, but they could deal with serious thefts.