Refusing sale to school students due to short supply

Pegasus15

Hello,

I wonder if any of you who are very well up on consumer issues can help me with this please.

There's a shop (a well know franchise) located just across the road from my school, and it's the common place for students in my school to go for their lunch. Yesterday, a group of friends I (who'd be pretty regular to the store) decided to go across to get a few bits and pieces.

As I was queueing to pay at the till, one of my friends walked towards the fridges to get a can of Coke. However, he was stopped by a man that I can only assume is the security guard or store manager who was standing just opposite the fridges. He was informed that due to a special offer (which I'm not sure the details of), cans of Coke were in short supply and as such he was not allowed to purchase one. My friend, a little bewildered to say the least, said okay and picked up a bottle of Coke. Once again he was stopped and told that he was not allowed to purchase a bottled drink, but rather only one that came in a can (with the exception of Coke due to the short supply).

Despite being a business studies student for the past number of years, we have never covered such a topic because it's quite absurd to be honest and (hopefully) is a rare occurrence. Is there anybody to whom I could complain about this, or was what the man did within his rights?

Thanks.

biko

I don't know about the legal aspects about this (although management usually can refuse anyone) because they should be happy to sell drinks regardless of buyer. Doesn't make sense tbh.

Pegasus15

biko wrote: »

I don't know about the legal aspects about this (although management usually can refuse anyone) because they should be happy to sell drinks regardless of buyer. Doesn't make sense tbh.

I'm aware that they have the right to refuse admission, but they let him buy everything else he wanted.

tricky D

Nothing illegal about it at all. A private business doesn't have to do business with anybody they don't want to, discrimination aside. However toeing that line is a phenomenally stupid way of doing business or not as the case would be.

Pegasus15

tricky D wrote: »

Nothing illegal about it at all. A private business doesn't have to do business with anybody they don't want to, discrimination aside. However toeing that line is a phenomenally stupid way of doing business or not as the case would be.

I'm surprised, to be honest. It makes it sound like you could walk in a shop, go to the till and be told "Sorry, but you can't buy that milk, but it's okay to buy the bread". I would have thought that if businesses could refuse business that they would have to fully refuse, not pick and choose by the item.

And it's odd, because the students would account for a lot of their business. It doesn't make sense that they want to have items that are on special for customers that aren't 12 - 19. They, too, are customers irrespective of their age. All the chap wanted to do was buy a can of Coke. This kind of business practice baffles me, especially in such difficult economic times.

daithijjj

This outlet is part of a large company right?..........the manager of the outlet has not ordered enough of a very popular item like 'coke!..........next time your in there, ask to speak to the manager, say you were not allowed to buy a coke from the shop (he doesnt know it wasnt you, but it could easily have been). Ask the manager for his/her bosses name/company email as you want to make a complaint and see what reaction you get.

the groutch

I expect that because the schoolkid are regular customers, he didnt want to sell to them, because he wanted to use the offer to attract new customers

don't think it's in any way illegal, but looks to have backfired

the_syco

They don't seem to want your business. Tell the management that you have been stopped from buying soft drinks in the store, and stop going there. The store manager may or may not be aware of this policy, and if they are, will quickly see that they'd prefer the business of the school.

ejmaztec

It's obvious that shop-keepers close to schools get a bit depressed when school holidays arrive and their turnover drops like a brick.

Perhaps a week's boycott by the entire school might persuade the owner to appreciate his or her bread and butter.

Pegasus15

daithijjj wrote: »

This outlet is part of a large company right?

It's what could be described as a convenience store chain, and a shop which I'm sure most people have heard of. Not sure if I'm allowed name names or not, though.

the groutch wrote: »

I expect that because the schoolkid are regular customers, he didnt want to sell to them, because he wanted to use the offer to attract new customers

Maybe so, but something like a half price can of Coke when you buy something else isn't a great way of attracting new customers (although I'm not sure what the exact offer is, it still seems unlikely people will go there just because of this promotion).

the_syco wrote: »

They don't seem to want your business. Tell the management that you have been stopped from buying soft drinks in the store, and stop going there. The store manager may or may not be aware of this policy, and if they are, will quickly see that they'd prefer the business of the school.

Possibly the shop hasn't been too fond of a large number of students going there each day. I can understand that they are worried about theft and the like and hence we're only allowed in a few at a time, but this I just can't work out. And, hypothetically speaking, if none of the students shopped there, I reckon that they'd see a fairly large dent in weekly sales. Like I said, I'm not sure if the man in the shop who wouldn't let people buy Coke is actually the store manager or not. He's there everyday, but if you go over after school he won't be guarding the door which leads me to believe he's not just a security guard.

dub45

Could you not ask the Principal of the school to clarify the issue with the shop management once and for all?

It seems to me to be very unreasonable behaviour on the part of the shop managment and it could have turned into a nasty incident if say the student concerned had got angry.

To your credit you are adopting a constructive approach by attempting to research the issue.

Has there been any previous 'history' between pupils and this shop?

the_syco

For the most part, shops are built near a school with the school seen as a main point of income.

Pegasus15 wrote: »

He's there everyday, but if you go over after school he won't be guarding the door which leads me to believe he's not just a security guard.

I see your point. It is quite odd, still, and the reason is perplexing. Please keep us updated on the outcome. Also, if you do happen to go in again, try finding out what the offer is. If all else fails, try to organise a mass walk-out, whereby 20-40 students walk away from the shop when one is refused due to no real reason?

eth0_

It sounds to me like the guy was just taking the mick out of you.

What's with schoolkids being allowed out of the school grounds to get their lunch anyway? When I was at school (not very long ago) we weren't allowed outside the school grounds unless we had a note from our parents..

foggy_lad

the shop if i read the op right is discriminating against people on the basis of their age by refusing to allow them buy certain special offer products which are freely available for purchase by anyone else that choses to buy them purely on the grounds that they are schoolchildren/in school uniform? or maybe i have completly misread the original post?

shellyboo

foggy_lad wrote: »

the shop if i read the op right is discriminating against people on the basis of their age by refusing to allow them buy certain special offer products which are freely available for purchase by anyone else that choses to buy them purely on the grounds that they are schoolchildren/in school uniform? or maybe i have completly misread the original post?

That's what I'd have thought... he seems to have deemed the OP and his friends not 'important' enough for the special offer on the basis that they're schoolkids - surely just as discriminatory as telling a woman she couldn't buy it cos she's female and thus of lesser importance than the male customers or something like that?

According to the Equality Authority it's illegal to discriminate on the basis of age. The ONLY thing I can think of is that that the store was running some sort of 'sandwich + coke' deal where ALL the stocks of coca-cola were reserved for those buying another item... it's really very confusing. No real way to know why he was refused without asking the manager, I guess!

Pegasus15

dub45 wrote: »

Could you not ask the Principal of the school to clarify the issue with the shop management once and for all?

I doubt he'd want to get involved in something that he'd most likely see as being very trivial.

dub45 wrote: »

To your credit you are adopting a constructive approach by attempting to research the issue.

Thank you .

dub45 wrote: »

Has there been any previous 'history' between pupils and this shop?

My only other first-hand experience was when the deli-counter assistant put a sticker with a reduced price on my wedge roll because there weren't many wedges left to put into it, and was then quizzed at the till and had to wait while my story was verified.

I've heard of students being told to leave and of people being physically escorted out of the shop for no apparent reason, but I can't comment on the validity of these stories as I've never seen it happen.

the_syco wrote: »

For the most part, shops are built near a school with the school seen as a main point of income.

That's what I thought, too.

the_syco wrote: »

Also, if you do happen to go in again, try finding out what the offer is. If all else fails, try to organise a mass walk-out, whereby 20-40 students walk away from the shop when one is refused due to no real reason?

I'll see what I can do to find out the exact details of the offer. It's a good idea, but it's likely that the other students just wouldn't agree to it.

eth0_ wrote: »

What's with schoolkids being allowed out of the school grounds to get their lunch anyway? When I was at school (not very long ago) we weren't allowed outside the school grounds unless we had a note from our parents..

When you start in 1st year, one of the forms is for permission to leave the school grounds at lunch. Your parents/guardians have to sign it for you to be allowed to leave.

foggy_lad wrote: »

the shop if i read the op right is discriminating against people on the basis of their age by refusing to allow them buy certain special offer products which are freely available for purchase by anyone else that choses to buy them purely on the grounds that they are schoolchildren/in school uniform? or maybe i have completly misread the original post?

You are completely correct. Not that it should make a difference, but it might be worth noting that it's a secondary school.

shellyboo wrote: »

That's what I'd have thought... he seems to have deemed the OP and his friends not 'important' enough for the special offer on the basis that they're schoolkids - surely just as discriminatory as telling a woman she couldn't buy it cos she's female and thus of lesser importance than the male customers or something like that?

According to the Equality Authority it's illegal to discriminate on the basis of age. The ONLY thing I can think of is that that the store was running some sort of 'sandwich + coke' deal where ALL the stocks of coca-cola were reserved for those buying another item... it's really very confusing. No real way to know why he was refused without asking the manager, I guess!

Thanks for that link.

Swizz

Pegasus15 wrote: »

Hello,

I wonder if any of you who are very well up on consumer issues can help me with this please.

There's a shop (a well know franchise) located just across the road from my school, and it's the common place for students in my school to go for their lunch. Yesterday, a group of friends I (who'd be pretty regular to the store) decided to go across to get a few bits and pieces.

As I was queueing to pay at the till, one of my friends walked towards the fridges to get a can of Coke. However, he was stopped by a man that I can only assume is the security guard or store manager who was standing just opposite the fridges. He was informed that due to a special offer (which I'm not sure the details of), cans of Coke were in short supply and as such he was not allowed to purchase one. My friend, a little bewildered to say the least, said okay and picked up a bottle of Coke. Once again he was stopped and told that he was not allowed to purchase a bottled drink, but rather only one that came in a can (with the exception of Coke due to the short supply).

Despite being a business studies student for the past number of years, we have never covered such a topic because it's quite absurd to be honest and (hopefully) is a rare occurrence. Is there anybody to whom I could complain about this, or was what the man did within his rights?

Thanks.

WHAAAAAT
Are you joking one of the first things you learn in Business is that goods on display in a shop are considered as an "invitation to treat" rather than offer, and the shop can refuse to sell to you. I hope youre not doing any major exams anytime soon, and after reading everyone some of the answers in here I dont think posting here will do you any good either!

axer

Your friend could make a claim using the Equal Status Act 2000 (as amended) saying he/she was refused sale of an item because of his/her age. In his/her case he/she would not have much proof unless he/she used the data protection act to get a copy of the CCTV showing the security guard/manager turning him/her away.

Such claims are made to the equality authority.

Alternatively you and/or your friends should talk to the principal or if you have a students union then maybe they could either contact the shop and arrange a boycott if the shop did not respond adequately.

snappieT

shellyboo wrote: »

According to the Equality Authority it's illegal to discriminate on the basis of age.

Ah, except persons under the age of 18 are technically not allowed to enter into legally binding contracts (which is why the banks, for example, don't give loans to under 18ers, who could legally welch on the debt). Buying something is a contract, so one could argue you're not supposed to sell to schoolkids to begin with.

Of course they'd be shooting themselves in the foot.

Red Alert

I would boycott that particular shop. And also get in touch with the equality authority, you can make an initial inquiry online and they are meant to be quick enough getting back to you.

KeyLimePie

I work in a petrol station..........and I can honestly say that we've never refused someone from buying a can of coke or what ever =p

The only reason I can think is that the person who told you not to was a twat, in the times we're living in they should be letting anyone buy anything !

L1011

I've seen limiting number of school kids in the shop at once and even one slightly perverse case of priority queuing (for everyone but schoolkids) in a petrol station beside the school (I was waved forward by the staff members which rather depressed me as it meant I didn't look like a school kid less than a year after finishing...) but never anything as surreal as that.

I'd drop in at a quiet time and ask to speak to the manager about it; no matter how badly they treat schoolkids they're going to be a majority source of sales revenue for them and a threat to go elsewhere if such meddling continues would probably have some affect.

drkpower

Whats all the talk of the Equality Authority.....?!!!
Large element of sledgehammer and nuts there!

Get a few students together, put together a letter, (+/- talk to your principal) - ask for a meeting with the manager of the individual shop and the franchise - tell him your concerns, if the shop is close to the school they wont want to cut off a whole lot of potential customers.

It would be a good exercise in civics, you could even put it in ur cv if there is a successful resolution.

and if the shop is still acting like a twat, get onto Joe Duffy - he'd lap that 'common man/kids uniting against the machine' sh!t up......

shellyboo

snappieT wrote: »

Ah, except persons under the age of 18 are technically not allowed to enter into legally binding contracts (which is why the banks, for example, don't give loans to under 18ers, who could legally welch on the debt). Buying something is a contract, so one could argue you're not supposed to sell to schoolkids to begin with.

Of course they'd be shooting themselves in the foot.

Hmm, good to know, thanks

drkpower wrote: »

Whats all the talk of the Equality Authority.....?!!!
Large element of sledgehammer and nuts there!

Not saying he should GO the the EA, was merely providing the link cos I had to look it up myself to see if age was in fact a criteria in the act.

drkpower

snappieT wrote: »

Ah, except persons under the age of 18 are technically not allowed to enter into legally binding contracts (which is why the banks, for example, don't give loans to under 18ers, who could legally welch on the debt). Buying something is a contract, so one could argue you're not supposed to sell to schoolkids to begin with.

No......
Why dont people think before posting - a simple reflection on daily life would have immediately revealed this to be incorrect or at least would have prompted a pause for thought.

A Minor IS FULLY LEGALLY ENTITLTED TO enter into a contract for necessaries; "necessaries" are "goods suitable to the condition in life of [a minor] .... and to his actual requirements at the time of the sale and delivery".

Its a naturally broad definition so as to permit the world to turn.

shellyboo

drkpower wrote: »

No......
Why dont people think before posting - a simple reflection on daily life would have immediately revealed this to be incorrect or at least would have prompted a pause for thought..

That'd be why he followed up his comment with "Of course they'd be shooting themselves in the foot."

No-one's saying that minors aren't allowed buy stuff.

Gary ITR

snappieT wrote: »

Ah, except persons under the age of 18 are technically not allowed to enter into legally binding contracts (which is why the banks, for example, don't give loans to under 18ers, who could legally welch on the debt). Buying something is a contract, so one could argue you're not supposed to sell to schoolkids to begin with.

Of course they'd be shooting themselves in the foot.

There are exemptions made in the Law of Contract to allow under 18's to purchase products in retail. Otherwise it would be just a nightmare. OP could you PM me that name and address of the store?

drkpower

shellyboo wrote: »

That'd be why he followed up his comment with "Of course they'd be shooting themselves in the foot."

No-one's saying that minors aren't allowed buy stuff.

Read the post again - he said that "technically .... under 18s are....not allowed to enter into legally binding contracts ...... so one could argue you're not supposed to sell to schoolkids to begin with".

That is incorrect.

Swizz

From reading this atleast you'll know not to look for advice here.

axer

drkpower wrote: »

Whats all the talk of the Equality Authority.....?!!!
Large element of sledgehammer and nuts there!

People should always be aware of the law and their rights.

In a situation like this I would talk to the manager in a reasonable fashion (or send a letter etc) but if he/she refuse to listen or act on the issue I would let them know that I will be forced to make a complaint to the equality authority on the grounds of age discrimmination under the Equal Status Act 2000.

It is very important to be able to quote the applicable act in situations like this when the person you are talking to does not take you seriously or refuses to take action - it might get them to change their stance without actually having to get the law enforced.

drkpower

axer wrote: »

People should always be aware of the law and their rights.

In a situation like this I would talk to the manager in a reasonable fashion (or send a letter etc) but if he/she refuse to listen or act on the issue I would let them know that I will be forced to make a complaint to the equality authority on the grounds of age discrimmination under the Equal Status Act 2000.

It is very important to be able to quote the applicable act in situations like this when the person you are talking to does not take you seriously or refuses to take action - it might get them to change their stance without actually having to get the law enforced.

But if you are going to quote the law, it is very important to :
1. be able to follow it up, and discrimination on the age ground does not apply to someone who has not attained the age of 18 years (except re: motor insurance)
2. quote it properly ("Equal Status Acts 2000 & 2004" or "Equal Status Act 2000 (as amended)")