The Ultimate Irish Hunting Knife

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

I got the steel and it's plain and boring right now and looks in fact like a piece of 50mm x 4mm mild steel although looking along the edge I can see the carbon core. (I'll try to post a pic later) Ground and polished though this will get a shinyer stainless look and the layers will start to appear.

I do have some brass, stainless, copper and nickel silver lying around so should be able to get some comparrisons also althugh my camera is not the best.

Regarding the Pommel, I think what I will do is grind down the rear of the handle to a small hidden tang like Smokey suggested but as this is a full tang handle there is no need to peen over the end of the tang. So what I intend to do is to thread this part, drill and tap the pommel and simply screw the pommel on using thread locking compound thereby there wont be any peened material showing at the rear end of the knife.

Offy

Smokeyskelton wrote: »

I appreciate that Davy has showed a preference for copper. I'm just not sure how the patina develops, or how hard copper is. If it's tough enough and the patina develops evenly I'm happy enough to go with that. I have a vague memory of having something copper getting green stains on it in the past, but I may be wrong.

Copper is a soft metal, it might not be suitable for pins but for a pommel it would suit me just fine, if I ever hit anything hard with it the copper will take the force of the blow. Certain hammers are made from copper, if the hammer hits a metal harder than copper its the copper that takes the dint and not the metal thats being worked. As a finger guard there is a slight risk of the copper benting back on the forefinger if something solid struck it, I dont think theres much chance of this happening but its a possibility that doesnt exist with harder materials like stainless.
Copper oxide is a greenish colour and copper will oxide with great ease in the Irish climate, that can be good or bad depending on whats wanted. Architects love to use it on buildings because of this but machine designers are wary of using it because of this and tend to use copper alloys instead, it depends on the application. Cosmetically copper is good and looks rustic but functionally copper is weak and the pins will deform if enougt force is applied. It would not be easy to manually apply enough force to copper pins in a kinfe handle to do this though so I think that a few years after the knife was made it would look fantastic and provided its not mistreated the pins would maintaine enough strenght to serve their function without any issues.

lordarpad

Maybe, I don't know yet.

well, I'd expect everybody to keep the knife in good nick and well maintained Copper can be hardened and will be a fair bit stronger that way. The graves in the valley of the kings were dug with copper tools.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080226193635AAuFis6

hardenign copper is done by beating it, so Davy if you were to forge the pommel and quillon, they'd be harder. Same goes for brass, bronze etc.

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Copper Work Hardens

This means that the more you work it the harder it becomes.

Take a piece of copper wire and bend it ... it flexes so what.

Keep bending it over and over, what happens ? It Snaps or breaks, why?

The copper has work hardened ... hardened in fact to the point that it has become brittle and breaks easily.

I wouldnt be too worried about the copper being too soft so long as you are hitting it against a softer material it will be fine.

In the olden days they found a solution to the softness of the Copper ..

by adding Tin Hey Presto .... Bronze

or by adding

Zinc abracadabra Brass

IRLConor

New poll up now.

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Morning Folks

Well it looks like Brass Fittings won the deal

That means we have a knife pretty much there apart from a handle shape Most people seemed to voice a preference prefer a straighter handle so that's where we will go.

• Fixed Blade
• Full Tang
• 4" / 100mm Blade
• 3mm 1/8" Thick
• Suminagashi Layered Steel
• Flat Ground
• Pathfinder Profile
• Additional Top grind
• Straight Back Handle
• Wych Elm Burl Scales
• Micarta Liners
• Finger Guard and Pommel
• Rounded Pommel
• Brass Fittings

I have some of the materials in the workshop already and over the next couple of weeks I'll gather up the rest.

I am going to make up a prototype knife to begin with out of some cheaper material and when it is complete I'll post pictures of it at which point you guys can tell me if you want anything tweaked or changed. Once the prototype is done we can decide on other elements such as engraving etc. I think it's better to wait until you can see a model in the flesh so to speak before any other decisions are made.

The thread is bound to go quiet at times especially now as almost all of the decisions have been made.

I'd like to say thanks to everyone who helped and participated in the design some of you have stuck around along time despite the seeming lack of progress at times. Over all it's been a very positive thread, with some great debate and some interesting ideas coming through and I think you should all be commended for that. I only hope I can make a knife worthy of your efforts.

I'll keep you posted on any developments.

Regards

Davy

macadam

Yes, Sun 23rd only

Thread gone wery wery quiet, must all be off shooting easter bunnies.

Offy

Hi Davy,
Hows the knife coming along? Any new developments?

Draupnir

Was following this thread with interest, from a non hunters point of view. Disappointed that it is 16 days without activity from davy.

lordarpad

Maybe, I don't know yet.

Draupnir wrote: »

Was following this thread with interest, from a non hunters point of view. Disappointed that it is 16 days without activity from davy.

Well, at this stage he is trying to fit the making of the prototype knife in between his normal schedule for paying customers, so i can see that this will take a while.

bradnailer

What type of steel was chosen for the blade,I'd seen the tread at the start but now it 33 pages. Anyone been keeping up with the choices.

macadam

Yes, Sun 23rd only

Hi , I have a handmade knife for sale on boards along with other very good sharp knives that I have collected recently all are new checkout the shooting for sale/wanted forum.

Would love these to go to a hunting person.

Smokeyskelton

Maybe, I don't know yet.

Hi Bradnailder,

Look further up the page, a handy precis has been put up. The steel is suminagashi, kind of like damascus. It should look good once etched.

Smokey

bradnailer

Smokeyskelton wrote: »

Hi Bradnailder,

Look further up the page, a handy precis has been put up. The steel is suminagashi, kind of like damascus. It should look good once etched.

Smokey

Setting the bar pretty high forging a blade for a knife you want to produce in any quantity unless the blade is purchased for a supplier of course.

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Morning folks

Well it's been a while since I posted anything on the thread. I didn't want you to think that the project had died so I said I'd drop by and give you an update on how things were progressing or not as the case may be.

So what's been happening ? Actually quite a lot...


I hooked up with another knifemaker Paul Donnellan from Galway ran the project past him and he very kindly agreed to help and within minutes he had come up with a handle design which really fit the style of the blade and suited the design requests put forward here on this thread.

We got down to the business of grinding out a prototype blade from cheap stainless steel to see what we had and everything looked great. That is apart from one aspect THE GRIND. You will remember that we voted for a FLAT GROUND blade but when the prototype was done it became apparent that this was not going to suit the knife and because of the rapid increase in thickness from edge to spine it was going to make sharpening the blade a task which would become harder and harder each time.

We swithched to a HOLLOW GRIND and hey presto problem solved. In fact it looks better aswell and if I do say so is looking very handsome aswell as practical.

I will post some pics later so that you can see the progress and get your comments before moving on to the Suminagashi Steel.

I'm sorry for not being more active on the board lately but until the first blade was ground out there really wasn't very much to say.

Regards

Davy

lordarpad

Maybe, I don't know yet.

davymoore wrote: »

Morning folks

We swithched to a HOLLOW GRIND and hey presto problem solved. In fact it looks better aswell and if I do say so is looking very handsome aswell as practical.

Thanks for the uopdate Davy! and I feel so vindicated

Breachloader

No

Really is a great project. hope you make more then one so the non winners can buy them off you..

• Full Tang
• 4" / 100mm Blade
• 3mm 1/8" Thick
• Suminagashi Layered Steel
• HOLLOW Ground
• Pathfinder Profile
• Additional Top grind
• Straight Back Handle
• Wych Elm Burl Scales
• Micarta Liners
• Finger Guard and Pommel
• Rounded Pommel
• Brass Fittings

All is looking good so far... For finishing touches though, perhaps less is more and no ingraving is needed... As for the sheath, Good quality stiff leather would get my vote.. with a button catch that wraps around the ringer guard like on the buck zipper's sheath...

Looking forward to the finished product..

Cheers..

bradnailer

Davy

Does Paul Donnellan have anywhere on line where everyone can look at his work.

Are you buying suminagashi in bar form and using stock removal to create the blade or forging it from a billet ?

riflehunter77

Maybe, I don't know yet.

Looking forward to see what you have done so far davy, so dont keep us in the dark to long we want pictures :D

macadam

Yes, Sun 23rd only

Great that everything is almost finalized, cannot wait for pics, keep up the hard work davy.

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

bradnailer wrote: »

Davy

Does Paul Donnellan have anywhere on line where everyone can look at his work.

Are you buying suminagashi in bar form and using stock removal to create the blade or forging it from a billet ?

Paul is not online but you can take my word for it he is a very fine knifemaker.

Yes I got the suminagashi in bar stock and it is the stock removal method.

It looks like my son has managed to lose the SDS card for the digital camera I'll buy a replacement at the weekend but unfortunately pics will have to wait till then.

bradnailer

Look forward to seeing the results.

Double Barrel

Maybe, I don't know yet.

Thoughts to work by.



"Don't make something if it is not useful; but if it is both necessary and useful, don't hesitate to make it beautiful, as long as the decorative elements are an inherent part of the design and don't interfere with function." Shaker quote, 1810
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It is my belief that it is of the very essence of every problem that it contains and suggests its own solution. This I believe to be natural law. Let us examine, then, carefully the elements, let us search out this contained suggestion, this essence of the problem. ............

All things in nature have a shape, that is to say, a form, an outward semblance, that tells us what they are, that distinguishes them from ourselves and from each other. -- Unfailingly in nature these shapes express the inner life, the native quality, of the animal, tree, bird, fish, that they present to us; they are so characteristic, so recognizable, that we say, simply, it is 'natural' it should be so. (...) Unceasingly the essence of things is taking shape in the matter of things, and this unspeakable process we call birth and growth.(...)

Whether it be the sweeping eagle in his flight or the open apple-blossom, the toiling work-horse, the blithe swan, the branching oak, the winding stream at its base, the drifting clouds, over all the coursing sun, form ever follows function, and this is the law. (...) It is the pervading law of all things organic and inorganic, of all things physical and metaphysical, of all things human and all things superhuman, of all true manifestations of the head, of the heart, of the soul, that life is recognizable in its expression, that form ever follows function." Louis Henri Sullivan
http://architect.architecture.sk/louis-henry-sullivan-architect/louis-henry-sullivan-architect.php

Enjoy your work Davy

glockNload

Hi Davy, I'm new to boards, and just tonight saw your knife project. I think its a fantastic idea, and as I collect knives it is of great interest to me. I have looked at knives around the world and traditional hunting knives all have one thing in common, they are all designed to deal with the local prey animal. I got the impression you wanted this to be like the knives our ancestors would have made. I feel maybe it is far too small at 4 inches. The prey our ancestor dealth with were deer and elk with antlers up to 12 feet wide, they also had to compete with bears and wolves, while a four inch blade may be more politically correct I fear it would be far too small for pratical purposes. Even on Crete which had no really large prey the tradional hunting knives are 6 inches long. Hope I'm no out of place making these observations.

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

glockNload

I dont expect that anyone in their right mind would have read all 30 odd pages of this thread but in brief we are not trying to design the Hunting knife of our ancestors but rather the Hunting knife for today and beyond.
With that in mind we took into account current prey and modern requirements.

By taking full advantage of modern day materials and resources (Steel etc.) we have set about designing and building a knife that will someday in the future perhaps be considered to be the knife that benchmarked the beginning of a new breed of hunting knife. One which is recognisable as the IRISH knife.

It's extremely presumptuous to think that we mere mortals can pull it off but it's worth a bloody good try.

Davy

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Well I'm not the worlds best photographer but here's a few pics of the progress to date as promised.

The blade is not the suminagashi but a cheaper steel just to try out the style.























Any Thoughts ?

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

THis is what we are aiming for ... Note the unusual pinning arrangement

macadam

Yes, Sun 23rd only

Looks very short, is that 100mm long blade, great to see them all the same.

Keep up the great work.

I have a few knives for sale on the for sale/wanted forum, if any of ye hunting men are interested.


Maca

Breachloader

No

That blade looks very fine, even with the cheaper metal... Why so many holes drilled in it though? the 5 pins and 1 lanyard i understand but not the others.. Is it to do with weight?

Have you began shaping the timber witch elm handle yet.

Also I think the addision of a Steel to the sheath would be a good idea (I saw you have them on some of the survival knives on your own site) as nothing is worse then a dull blade and a fine piece like this will certainly see alot of use and be best served if it gets a regular touch up to keep the edge keen.

Keep up the good work Davy..

Breachloader.

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Breachloader wrote: »

That blade looks very fine, even with the cheaper metal... Why so many holes drilled in it though? the 5 pins and 1 lanyard i understand but not the others.. Is it to do with weight?

Have you began shaping the timber witch elm handle yet.

Yes ... exrta holes are purely to remove weight from the handle

No ... still playing with profile