Another victim?? Another first time buyer??

oceanclub

Geggles1 only made 1 post. Either they:

* were a troll
* now realise they're were frakking dumb to make such as post.

P.

johnnyskeleton

oceanclub wrote: »

Geggles1 only made 1 post. Either they:

* were a troll
* now realise they're were frakking dumb to make such as post.

P.

or:

* got frightened of what was said to him and decided not to post on boards anymore.

If it is this latter, I'm sorry for my part in that. Irish society is becoming very antagonistic these days, and these issues can cut to the bone. While what I say is not always pleasant, it is not intended to cause offence.

SoupyNorman

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

or:

* got frightened of what was said to him and decided not to post on boards anymore.

If it is this latter, I'm sorry for my part in that. Irish society is becoming very antagonistic these days, and these issues can cut to the bone. While what I say is not always pleasant, it is not intended to cause offence.

Either way it sparked a lively thread.


The issues can cut to the bone in some cases because people are still trying not to look at the cold hard figures. Believing instead that the property they bought has only dropped in price by a fraction.


Time for the cold wet salmon to the face!

hussey

jees lads, can you not see that this thread might end up in on paper over the next few weeks

The OP has one post ... I am always wary of these types of post

jackal

hussey wrote: »

jees lads, can you not see that this thread might end up in on paper over the next few weeks

The OP has one post ... I am always wary of these types of post

Yeah, OP was probably Brendan O'Connor putting out feelers for his next article.

oceanclub

jackal wrote: »

Yeah, OP was probably Brendan O'Connor putting out feelers for his next article.

"The Internet Terrorists Who Dare to Lower the Value of My House"

P.

myflipflops

geggles1 wrote: »

]Not once during our whole experience, were either myself or my partner advised that purchasing a property in such a buoyant market was a high risk.

Judging by the well written nature of your post, I'm guessing you are a reasonably well educated person. WIth this in mind, why do you feel that somebody needed to tell you that engaging in a transcation of 400k/500k (a guessed figure) was a high risk? While i have empathy towards your situation, you are simply not in a position to apportion blame to others.

The points you make about the banking bail out are fair enough and most people in this country are very annoyed at how the whole banking scandal is playing out. The idea that you deserve a bail out because somebody else got one is just not correct. You made a poor financial decision and even admit yourself that you didn't do enough research. As harsh as it sounds, you now have to deal with it.

jmayo

pwhite587 wrote: »

Judging by the well written nature of your post, I'm guessing you are a reasonably well educated person...

Well that has definetly knocked the theory of brendan o'connor writing this post on the head.
Well written and educated person are two things I wouldn't use in same sentence with o'connor.

oceanclub

jmayo wrote: »

Well that has definetly knocked the theory of brendan o'connor writing this post on the head.
Well written and educated person are two things I wouldn't use in same sentence with o'connor.

To be fair, he is smart and can write. That's not the issue most people have with him. As I said elsewhere, somewhere in the 19th century, there is a monkey chained to a street organ that has more dignity and independence of thought than BOC.

P.

cbreeze

The OP sparked an interesting debate!

Get back at Seanie F***trick and Mr Fiddleton by sending them a postcard, c/o the Governor, Mountjoy Jail, Dublin, marked 'to await arrival'!

grahamo

Whatever anyone on here says, the OP was badly advised. The dogs in the street could have told you the bubble would burst one day, The Builders can only sell so many houses. The Mortgage Brokers etc. only care about their commission, nothing else. Financial Regulators didn't do their job and I don't think its very helpful people gloating and posting 'Its your own fault' remarks. I think people who greedily mopped up investment properties drove up prices but they will all take a hit now as negative equity kicks in and they struggle to make mortgage payments.
I do have sympathy for people having to pay huge mortgages every month for overpriced houses but at the same time once you are still at work and can afford to keep up payments you will be OK in the long run. Since the 1940's properties have doubled in price roughly every 10 years and theres been a lot of booms & busts in that time

CDfm

pwhite587 wrote: »

Judging by the well written nature of your post, I'm guessing you are a reasonably well educated person. WIth this in mind, why do you feel that somebody needed to tell you that engaging in a transcation of 400k/500k (a guessed figure) was a high risk? While i have empathy towards your situation, you are simply not in a position to apportion blame to others.

The points you make about the banking bail out are fair enough and most people in this country are very annoyed at how the whole banking scandal is playing out. The idea that you deserve a bail out because somebody else got one is just not correct. You made a poor financial decision and even admit yourself that you didn't do enough research. As harsh as it sounds, you now have to deal with it.

Is the OP a Civil Servant ?

Because all of the talk of regulation etc and aversion to risk seems to have opened that type of discussion.

On the other hand -others who work in the commercial sector who dont have this job security safety net and are more worried about keeping their jobs and paying the mortgage rather then talking about notional concepts such as negative equity when the real issue is keeping up repayments and roofs over heads.

THe only real talk of strike action seems to be nurses etc. Just a thought.

No-one is saying -bank takeover means no pensioner has lost their lifes savings

20goto10

There's a bail out coming for US home buyers. What the criteria will be for qualifying has not been revealed. It's got nothing to do with helping people out who have made bad decisions, its to do with getting the economy going again. Some things simply cannot be left to fail. Banks, insurance companies, the car industry and absolutely no doubt home owners should be put into that category.

Now as for Ireland, I may have a unique opinion here on boards but I'm willing to bet (metaphorically speaking ) that once the US recovers, Ireland will recover and it will have nothing to do with the price of houses at that time - although there will be plenty making connections between prices and the bottom of the market :rolleyes:

The_Conductor

grahamo wrote: »

Since the 1940's properties have doubled in price roughly every 10 years and theres been a lot of booms & busts in that time

The average houseprice since 1940 never exceeded 6.5 times the average industrial wage prior to the current bubble- indeed its mean was under 4 times the average industrial wage. We have not had economic conditions akin to those we currently have, since the great depression and the economic trade war with Britain. We are in uncharted waters for Ireland in a modern context- there really is no base on which to draw a comparison.

CDfm wrote: »

THe only real talk of strike action seems to be nurses etc. Just a thought.

Ballot papers have issued in both the public and private sectors in many unions under the ICTU umbrella. The nurses are the most vocal, but by no means the only ones talking of strike action. Junior Doctors have to have their ballots returned to the IMO by tomorrow, PSEU members this evening etc. The proposals are for 2 * 1 day all-out strikes across the private and public sectors with massive demonstrations at the Houses of the Oireachtas and elsewhere.

Who knows what'll happen.

CDfm

20goto10 wrote: »

There's a bail out coming for US home buyers. What the criteria will be for qualifying has not been revealed. It's got nothing to do with helping people out who have made bad decisions, its to do with getting the economy going again. Some things simply cannot be left to fail. Banks, insurance companies, the car industry and absolutely no doubt home owners should be put into that category.

Now as for Ireland, I may have a unique opinion here on boards but I'm willing to bet (metaphorically speaking ) that once the US recovers, Ireland will recover and it will have nothing to do with the price of houses at that time - although there will be plenty making connections between prices and the bottom of the market :rolleyes:

I tend to agree with you.

And I would like to see a very strong UK currency - if it appreciated over the Euro by 30% I would be extatic.But any appreciation would be good -as they are a key trading partner and it would improve our competitiveness v a v our trading partner(and competitor economy)

oceanclub

grahamo wrote: »

Financial Regulators didn't do their job and I don't think its very helpful people gloating and posting 'Its your own fault'

Sorry, but what exactly do you expect people to say if they think this is the truth? The OP wanted to blame everyone but themselves, and wanted taxpayers' - mine and yours - money to pay for their mistake.

P.

CDfm

smccarrick wrote: »

Ballot papers have issued in both the public and private sectors in many unions under the ICTU umbrella. The nurses are the most vocal, but by no means the only ones talking of strike action. Junior Doctors have to have their ballots returned to the IMO by tomorrow, PSEU members this evening etc. The proposals are for 2 * 1 day all-out strikes across the private and public sectors with massive demonstrations at the Houses of the Oireachtas and elsewhere.

How do you read this as I am a bit biased.

If we take the junior doctors etc out of the equation as they are treated fairly badly anyway (its part of their training and will be financially secure long term anyway seems to be the justification).

Given the financial mess how effective are strikes and wont they really put others off doing business in Ireland. Isnt the ICTU very close to the Labour Party and am I right in saying that the proposed strikes are politically motivated.

Or a bus drivers strike -they are compting for the same pot of money the nurses get paid from?

Lets take SR Technics - they said they are closing because labour costs are 20% too high for them to tender for work competitively. So how would a demonstration and strike help that or any private sector employee. It wouldnt whereas public sector workers have job security.

I know I am biased but can you see any positives in this?

The_Conductor

CDfm wrote: »

How do you read this as I am a bit biased.

The ICTU are doing their damndest to get the whole thing away from the Public Pension Levy and towards an all-out we're dissatisfied with the government sort of social unrest. This is why the staff from Waterford Crystal, Dell and now SR Technics are so important to their cause. They want to appear to be an all-inclusive voice for the people. The big problem at the moment is the diverse interests of those under their umbrella- in some cases some of the people hate each other even more than they hate the government......

The perception is the government caved in on medical cards and a whole range of other things- and as they have the money to rescue the bankers- why should everyone else suffer? Unfortunately Brian Cowen et al are simply appalling at dealing with a crisis- they are firefighting rather than taking proactive steps to address people's expectations and micromanage their way out of the mess.

The unions big problem with the public sector pension levy is that you have to be earning in excess of 22,880 before you qualify for anything other than the PRSI contributory pension (which all Class A PRSI employees, be they public or private sector qualify for anyhow). Added to this- the levy is applied to all earnings- despite the fact that in most cases only core earnings qualify for recognition for superannuation purposes. So- its an income levy- not a pensions levy at all. Its dressed up as a pensions levy as a sop to the pre-existing public sector pensioners- whose pensions are based on the salaries of those in their posts now. Were it to be rephrased as a paycut- which is the most honest thing to do- you'd have another 120,000 marching on the Dail- only they'd be pensioners this time- and last time the pensioners marched things got ugly.....

So- the government are being disingenuous and dishonest towards the public sector, encouraging poor reporting in the media- and all the time trying to ferment a public sector versus private sector battle- which to date has been highly effective.

Very few public sector employees have any misgivings about taking a paycut. Its needed- the exchequer has to regain a measure of control over finances- its a simple recognition of the lie of the land. However- when its the only measure on the table- and a miserable measure at that which looks to save 2 billion when we have to borrow 26 billion, there is a perception of scapegoating.

In my opinion its mind games, knowingly or otherwise, on the parts of the unions and the government at the moment. Unfortunately- the average person on the street is getting caught in the crossfire- and fed allsorts of ridiculous stories that stretch credulity to its extremes.

The positive in all of this is a dawning recognition that we are simply too expensive a country- and that fundamentally there is no inherent reason our cost of living is so high. Both public sector, but also private sector wages need to fall significantly (in a deflationary cycle as we have at present you can cut headline wages without impacting on standards of living- which is what needs to happen). The government and unions need to tell people- electricity is down 10%, gas 25%, food 18%, rent 16% etc- so a 10% paycut means you are still better off than you were a year ago....... Its a difficult one to sell- but what needs to happen........

20goto10

smccarrick wrote: »

The positive in all of this is a dawning recognition that we are simply too expensive a country- and that fundamentally there is no inherent reason our cost of living is so high.

Unions. We're a socialist nation which has had a socialist taoiseach at the helm throughout the boom. The unions are doing a very good job at avoiding the bullet. And so has Bertie Ahern I might add.

oceanclub

20goto10 wrote: »

Unions. We're a socialist nation which has had a socialist taoiseach at the helm throughout the boom

Man, when Bertie described himself as a socialist, I didn't think anyone believed him (including himself).

Wages are high, both for union and non-union jobs. The primary cause of this has been the housing bubble.

P.

CDfm

smccarrick wrote: »

The positive in all of this is a dawning recognition that we are simply too expensive a country- and that fundamentally there is no inherent reason our cost of living is so high. Both public sector, but also private sector wages need to fall significantly (in a deflationary cycle as we have at present you can cut headline wages without impacting on standards of living- which is what needs to happen). The government and unions need to tell people- electricity is down 10%, gas 25%, food 18%, rent 16% etc- so a 10% paycut means you are still better off than you were a year ago....... Its a difficult one to sell- but what needs to happen........

I have felt that the Civil Service especially dodge the bullet effectively on many issues especially on responsibility for the current crisis as it is the CS that advises the Government -how reasonable am I?

My other feeling is that the Civil Service and Public Service representatives are so highly unionised that they are actually Political with political affiliations and not really independent or unbiased.

Any alternative Government would be in the same boat given current circumstances and a change would just be very damaging to stability and would change very little-is this reasonable?

The_Conductor

CDfm wrote: »

I have felt that the Civil Service especially dodge the bullet effectively on many issues especially on responsibility for the current crisis as it is the CS that advises the Government -how reasonable am I?

My other feeling is that the Civil Service and Public Service representatives are so highly unionised that they are actually Political with political affiliations and not really independent or unbiased.

Any alternative Government would be in the same boat given current circumstances and a change would just be very damaging to stability and would change very little-is this reasonable?

The civil service is actually tasked with implementing government policy- not designing it. The civil servants don't have an opinion- it is their job to present the options to the government in an unbiased manner, and then do what the government tells them to do.

The civil service and public sector unions are particularly visable and vocal at the lower levels- but from junior management and upwards- its only once in a blue moon that you ever hear a peep- even on totally controversial measures- like decentralisation for example.

I disagree with you that a change would be damaging to stability- on the basis that the incumbents are reactionary in their actions- and even then, only when they have no options left to exercise. I don't believe that FG/Labour would do any better however- I think that our entire political system is structually unsound and that the current mess should be treated as an opportunity to exercise massive reforms.

Why does a country of less than 4.5 million justify per capita representation both locally and nationally almost 27 times higher than Wales? Why is the Irish Taoiseach paid considerably more than the US president? Why is a regular TDs salary almost 90% of the salary of the French Premier? Why did 98 councilors claim expenses greater than Putin's salary last year? I could go on and on........

Our country is run a series of little feifdoms- where every little village and town is fighting against the next village or town, county against county- and the rest of the country against Dublin. Being in government is perceived to be an opportunity to enrich your constituents. There is no sense of what is best for Ireland as a whole- its all me, me, me.......

The saddest thing of all is despite how angry everyone is, and how betrayed we feel- 2 years down the road, people will have forgotten everything and vote the same load of people back in yet again.

johnnyskeleton

smccarrick wrote: »

The unions big problem with the public sector pension levy is that you have to be earning in excess of 22,880 before you qualify for anything other than the PRSI contributory pension (which all Class A PRSI employees, be they public or private sector qualify for anyhow). Added to this- the levy is applied to all earnings- despite the fact that in most cases only core earnings qualify for recognition for superannuation purposes. So- its an income levy- not a pensions levy at all. Its dressed up as a pensions levy as a sop to the pre-existing public sector pensioners- whose pensions are based on the salaries of those in their posts now. Were it to be rephrased as a paycut- which is the most honest thing to do- you'd have another 120,000 marching on the Dail- only they'd be pensioners this time- and last time the pensioners marched things got ugly.....

Another issue is that not all in the public sector got a non contributory pension. I've heard it said that the teachers have for the last few years actually paid more into the pension fund than they have drawn out. While there are points to be picked out of this, it must seem very unfair to some public sector employees who are not only oversubscribing their own pension fund, but are now paying extra for the benefit of other public sector employees.

That said, the unfortunate reality is that public spending (wages, transfer payments and other spending) needs to be decreased massively and a fair chunk of this has to come out of public sector pay. The unions either don't seem to understand this or, more likely, choose to ignore it.

CDfm

smccarrick wrote: »

The nurses are the most vocal, but by no means the only ones talking of strike action. Junior Doctors have to have their ballots returned to the IMO by tomorrow, PSEU members this evening etc. The proposals are for 2 * 1 day all-out strikes across the private and public sectors with massive demonstrations at the Houses of the Oireachtas and elsewhere.

Who knows what'll happen.

This harks back to the 70's -are there no lenghts nurses wont go to to grab a Doctor

trellheim

PSEU voted 70% for strike action.

Fighting Irish

have fun paying off your mortgage