Kenny to lead?

yoshytoshy

Sand wrote: »

Yes, there is. TDs have to follow the party line. Hence their party and its manifesto are more important than the individual in question...

I'm inclined to not take policies too seriously before elections ,thats the upper hand they all play and it doesn't wash with me.

nesf

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I'm inclined to not take policies too seriously before elections ,thats the upper hand they all play and it doesn't wash with me.

You're better off trying to work out where their loyalties lie. For instance with Gilmore, it's very hard to see him facing down the unions, especially the public ones. Same as it's hard to see FF at the moment throwing the builders to the mob, though I can see them throwing the bank officials to them (i.e. look at the proposed granting of powers to an Oireachtas committee with respect to this).

yoshytoshy

nesf wrote: »

You're better off trying to work out where their loyalties lie. For instance with Gilmore, it's very hard to see him facing down the unions, especially the public ones.

I will do my best to suss out whats what ,it would be nice for both labour and fine gael to interact with the unions themselves ,before any of the pre-elections.

Given the extreme circumstances ,it would provide some food for thought for voters.

nesf

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I will do my best to suss out whats what ,it would be nice for both labour and fine gael to interact with the unions themselves ,before any of the pre-elections.

That's the eternal problem with the opposition in our kind of system, you don't get any real idea of what they'll be like until you vote them in. It both works for them, you can be everything to everybody when you don't actually have to implement policy and it can work against them because often when faced with uncertainty people fear the unknown (i.e. the last election had a lot of this going on).

yoshytoshy

nesf wrote: »

That's the eternal problem with the opposition in our kind of system, you don't get any real idea of what they'll be like until you vote them in.

A bit like eircom broadband so ,nothing changes in this country:)

nesf

yoshytoshy wrote: »

A bit like eircom broadband so ,nothing changes in this country:)

Apologies for editing my posts so much by the way, I've a bad habit of hitting submit and then remembering something I wanted to say.

deadhead13

Kenny is all bluff and bluster. Just can't imagine him as taiseoch. But then again, I'm still having difficulty envisaging Brian Cowen as one.

yoshytoshy

Really feel sorry for brian cowen these days ,it just seems like too much for him though.
I don't even blame bertie ahern for the problems ,I blame charlie mcreevey for the gambles he made years ago.

Do people remember when the SSIA's where brought out ? ,it was after mcreevey gave us tax cuts.
He was called in by the eu and magically came up with the savings scheme. In my eyes that was the start of the trouble.

nesf

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Really feel sorry for brian cowen these days ,it just seems like too much for him though.
I don't even blame bertie ahern for the problems ,I blame charlie mcreevey for the gambles he made years ago.

Do people remember when the SSIA's where brought out ? ,it was after mcreevey gave us tax cuts.
He was called in by the eu and magically came up with the savings scheme. In my eyes that was the start of the trouble.

Cowen inherited a mess, both as Finance Minister and as Taoiseach. The problem is while he did do some sensible things like run surpluses (which I might add he got some criticism from Labour for doing if I recall correctly) he did not manage (it's unclear where he personally stood on the issue imho) the tax cuts that fuelled some of the building going on in the later years of the boom. For that he'll get no sympathy from broad swathes of the public and members of this forum.

The one I've the closest thing to sympathy for at the moment is Brian Lenihan. A Senior Counsel being suddenly thrust into the Ministry of Finance with no background in anything but law academically and then having the economy implode before he even had much of a chance to find his feet. His political reputation will be in tatters if he ****s up but really he's way out of his depth here, though I have been impressed that he grasped some of the nuances of the difference in our bad debt problem versus that effecting other EU states in that long interview he gave about the bank recapitalisation. It's the kind of thing that politicians with no background in an area often don't manage to do when working "off script".

ttilting

It's always popular to be 'anti government' . . . . but people should do it in a focussed way.....

Politics is very important , , . . . but still so many idiots in Ireland continue to vote based on STUPID ideas and preconceptions that they have.

Some people vote FF because there parents do , ,

Some people vote LAB/ FG / SF etc .... because the local TD drinks in the same pub as them . . . . . . . . . .

EVERY citizen has a moral obligation to orientate themselves about politics, it annoys me that there are huge swathes of people that have no idea what the difference between Left Wing & Right Wing are, and have no idea where they consider themselves on the ''spectrum''.

Ignorant LAZY! voters are the reason we now have a government in with such a low approval rating . .

After careful informed consideration (I am Left Of Centre) ,,,,I vote Labour , , , But I keep an eye on all of their polices to ensure they still match up to my beliefs.

But no matter who you vote for ! . . .

Dont do it because your Daddy always voted for them!

Dont do it based on a couple of extra euro in your pocket every month !

For gods sake do it because the candidate/party you are voting for represents your what you believe will help to improve society for ALL ... equally.

Or just totally ignore this post . . and continue to winge and blame politicians for the countries problems.

Democracy only works when people accept the importance of their decision.

K-9

ttilting wrote: »

Or just totally ignore this post . . and continue to winge and blame politicians for te countries problems.

Democracy only works when people accept the importance of their decision.

Indeed.

Agreed.

The Lisbon Treaty is an example of were the vote should be taken away.

We need a politics IQ Test.

ttilting

K-9 wrote: »

Indeed.

Agreed.

The Lisbon Treaty is an example of were the vote should be taken away.

We need a politics IQ Test.

Well an I. Q test is one thing ! ! ! ... Probably a little too strong, as a low IQ should not detract from your right to have your say on how the world works!..but you should be able to comprehend how the world(/society) works. knowing how he world works means a lot more than passing synical comments about politicians from time to time.

But I would be in favor of some sort of 1 day course that EVERYONE applying to be on the voting register must attend.

The course content must be un bias - and while there would be no test ..... you would have to provide a certificate of attendeance,,
,,,OR. . . . Controversially. . . . .

NO VOTE ! ! !

We are now seeing the importance of political decisions . . . . . . I wouldn't want an unqualified pilot to fly my plane ..... so why should I accept an unqualified person to vote on the direction of society.

The content of the course could be argued back and fourth until it was agreed upon. .

NON attendance. . . NO VOTE . . . .

K-9

ttilting wrote: »

Well an I. Q test is one thing ! ! ! ... Probably a little too strong, as a low IQ should not detract from your right to have your say on how the world works!..but you should be able to comprehend haw the world(/society) works. knowing how he world works means a lot more than passing synical comments about politicians from time to time.

But I would be in favor of some sort of 1 day course that EVERYONE applying to be on the voting register must attend.

The course content must be un bias - and while there would be no test ..... you would have to provide a certificate of attendeance,,
,,,OR. . . . Controversially. . . . .

NO VOTE ! ! !

We are now seeing the importance of political decisions . . . . . . I wouldn't want an unqualified pilot to fly my plane ..... so why should I accept an unqualified person to vote on the direction of society.

The content of the course could be argued back and fourth until it was agreed upon. .

NON attendance. . . NO VOTE . . . .

Good idea.

To vote it would take time and it would have to cost a days pay.

yoshytoshy

The whole world has made mistakes in the last decade ,from bush to bertie.

It would be a pretty sh1tty world ,if everything was laid out in front of you.

Daroxtar

ttilting wrote: »

It's always popular to be 'anti government' . . . . but people should do it in a focussed way.....

Politics is very important , , . . . but still so many idiots in Ireland continue to vote based on STUPID ideas and preconceptions that they have.

Some people vote FF because there parents do , ,

Some people vote LAB/ FG / SF etc .... because the local TD drinks in the same pub as them . . . . . . . . . .

EVERY citizen has a moral obligation to orientate themselves about politics, it annoys me that there are huge swathes of people that have no idea what the difference between Left Wing & Right Wing are, and have no idea where they consider themselves on the ''spectrum''.

Ignorant LAZY! voters are the reason we now have a government in with such a low approval rating . .

After careful informed consideration (I am Left Of Centre) ,,,,I vote Labour , , , But I keep an eye on all of their polices to ensure they still match up to my beliefs.

But no matter who you vote for ! . . .

Dont do it because your Daddy always voted for them!

Dont do it based on a couple of extra euro in your pocket every month !

For gods sake do it because the candidate/party you are voting for represents your what you believe will help to improve society for ALL ... equally.

Or just totally ignore this post . . and continue to winge and blame politicians for the countries problems.

Democracy only works when people accept the importance of their decision.

Would it not be better for rte to comission a show for sunday evenings live from the helix where the politicians can come up with great stories of what they're capable of and have a panel of judges, maybe a seoige and amanda brunker and duncan stewart and twink and louis walsh and brendan o connor to pass judgement on the great ideas, then maybe get them to do their party pieces and at the end we could text our votes in(calls from mobiles may cost more) ? People might show more interest that way and we'd get the politicians we really think would be capable of telling the best stories:):)

ttilting

Daroxtar wrote: »

Would it not be better for rte to comission a show for sunday evenings live from the helix where the politicians can come up with great stories of what they're capable of and have a panel of judges, maybe a seoige and amanda brunker and duncan stewart and twink and louis walsh and brendan o connor to pass judgement on the great ideas, then maybe get them to do their party pieces and at the end we could text our votes in(calls from mobiles may cost more) ? People might show more interest that way and we'd get the politicians we really think would be capable of telling the best stories:):)

If anyone needs that type of program to spark their interest in how society is run . . . They obviously have no idea of the complexity of running a country......

X Factor is not a bad show,,,,,,

but politics is seriously important , , , (as we will all see 6 months from now when the riots.shortages begin) , , , , ,

Lazily Neglect it. . . and we end up . . . . well..... where we are now!

jmayo

nesf wrote: »

What does sleevinism mean? Have never seen it before.

nesf, you are a mod on politics forum and you don't know what a sleeveen (sleevin ??) means ?
An utter disgrace

nesf wrote: »

We have a tank now?

Well we have baby tanks with smaller guns.
They do move faster though

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Always considered enda kenny to be a rural politician ,making more resources available for Ireland ,as oppose to Dublin (would I be right about this ?)

As opposed to bertie who just made sure de northsoide was looked after.
Metro, Dublin airport Authority, Aer Lingus, the new national childrens hospital in a place with no infrastructural access :rolleyes:

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Really feel sorry for brian cowen these days ,it just seems like too much for him though.
I don't even blame bertie ahern for the problems ,I blame charlie mcreevey for the gambles he made years ago.

Do people remember when the SSIA's where brought out ? ,it was after mcreevey gave us tax cuts.
He was called in by the eu and magically came up with the savings scheme. In my eyes that was the start of the trouble.

Boll****.
Clowen was in charge when he could have stopped Section 23, 50s etc, when he could have stopped specualtors and investors from pushing up property prices and thus everything else in the country.
McCreevey is an easy scapegoat now.

When did he leave and was Clowen not in charge for the worse of the years 2004-2007 when the steam should have been taken out of the market ?
When did 100% mor5tgages come in and who was minister of finance ?

PS he is paid more then Gordon Brown or Barrack Obama so shag him, it's about time he and the others earned their fat salaries and even fatter expenses.