Continental Q400 crashes in NY killing 49

pclancy

(CNN) -- A Continental Airlines plane crashed in suburban Buffalo, New York, late Thursday, killing 49 people. There were 44 passengers and four crew members killed on board and one on the ground, according to authorities.


Continental Airlines Flight 3407 crashed into a house in suburban Buffalo, New York, late Thursday.

Continental Connection Flight 3407, operated by Colgan Air, was en route from Newark, New Jersey, when it went down, said Bill Peat with New York State Emergency Management in Albany.

The crash took place about seven miles from Buffalo Niagara International Airport in Clarence Center, New York.

"At this time, the full resources of Colgan Air's accident response team are being mobilized and will be devoted to cooperating with all authorities responding to the accident and to contacting family members and providing assistance to them," a statement from the airline said.

The plane crashed about 10:20 p.m., hitting a home and bursting into a fireball, according to New York State Trooper John Manthey. Twelve residents were evacuated from the area. Watch crash video from CNN affiliate WGRZ »

Area resident Keith Burtis said he was driving to the store about a mile from the crash site when he heard the plane go down. "It was a high-pitched sound," Burtis said. "It felt like a mini-earthquake." Watch officials on the scene: 'This is not a rescue mission' »

Shortly after the crash, Burtis said he saw a steady stream of fire trucks rush by him as smoke billowed into the sky.

"Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of the crew, the passengers and our residents on Long Street," said Clarence Supervisor Scott Blylewski. Are you on the scene? Let us know at iReport

"This is clearly a tragedy," said Dave Bissonette, the town's natural disaster services coordinator.

A command post has been set up at the scene by the Erie County Medical Examiners office and has investigators and doctors on the scene. Watch what iReporter captured on film

Continental Airlines confirmed that the Bombardier Dash 8 Q400, a 74-seat turboprop, was operating between Newark Liberty International Airport and Buffalo.

The National Transportation Safety Board said early Friday that is was preparing a "go team" to head to Buffalo to investigate the crash.

There was a wintry mix at the time of the crash, officials said. Witnesses told CNN the house that was hit was flattened.

Officials said relatives of passengers aboard the flight should call 1-800-621-3263 for information. Watch more on the plane crash »

At this time, officials said they are not concerned about a hazardous materials situation on the ground.

Rep. Chris Lee, R-New York, issued a statement: "We are deeply shocked and saddened by the tragic accident that occurred tonight in Clarence. Our focus right now is on supporting the first responders on the ground and their efforts to ensure the health and safety of people in the area.

"I will do my best to provide helpful information as we learn more. Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims' families at this difficult hour."

kaimera

Xavi6

Horrible news

spadder

Any word? Was it a mechanical failure?

I know these aircraft have had several incidents in the past, including one in Dublin I think.

I know a guy who was on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu89SIBDizQ

I met him last year, he has a scar on his hand where a piece of the prop came through the Fuse. He flies a lot but he said he would never travel on one of these again.

h8red

Jesus. That's pants. Have you ever heard of Old Moore's Almanac? My brother was saying it predicted two air crashes in New York in January. It said they would both be the same operator but the ditch in the Hudson was UA. And it is February. Still kinda freaky tho.

pclancy

No real clues yet though several other aircraft reported icing during their descents and they were flying in IMC at the time. Not that either of those conditions pose safety threats.

The ATC recording is available here: http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kbuf/KBUF-Feb-13-2009-0300Z.mp3 from about 0.15.00 onwards they are cleared to join the ILS but dont respond to further comms. Colgan 3407 is their callsign.

The Dash 8s and Q400s are by no means unsafe aircraft, there are hundreds in use around the world on a daily basis, something obviously terrible has happened to this one though.

Danbo!

Death Toll now at 50, it seems a fifth crew member was on board, off duty.

zig

pclancy wrote: »

No real clues yet though several other aircraft reported icing during their descents and they were flying in IMC at the time. Not that either of those conditions pose safety threats.

any chance a deicing system could have failed? Could that not pose a threat?

elmolesto

FlutterinBantam

Ice build up on the wings similar to the Aer Lingus Shorts which came down short of the r/w in EMA a long time ago.

That's my opinion.

Foggy43

On the CVR the crew were aware of ice build up on the windshield and wing leading edges but not worried about it. They had activated the de-icing system just before discussing the ice.
Problems started when the crew lowered the flaps. Within seconds of this selection the aircraft suffered a series of severe pitches and rolls. The crew tried to retract the gear and flaps but recordings ended.

Shouldn't the rubber boots inflate breaking ice of the Leading edges and subsequently assist breaking off the ice from wing or tailplane surfaces? If de-icing is applied too late is it possible surfaces behind the leading edges may remain with ice build up?

pclancy

Could be tail icing that when the flaps were lowered the CG of the aircraft changed and it entered a tail stall. CVR will tell all i'm sure.

Run_to_da_hills

Theres a new twist to this case:

The plane was on autopilot when it went down in icy weather, indicating that the pilot may have violated federal safety recommendations and the airline's own policy for flying in such conditions, a federal official said Sunday.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hpSZzqkNMwZvX2xrejSSUOyBGCYgD96C75700

Foggy43

That story and the time the deicing system was activated seems to conflict a previous story reporting what was on the CVR and Data Recorders. Read this one and maybe it may change your opinion?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7890952.stm

It is doing my head in as years ago in a class room we discussed turbo probs and the fact that they should not be 'stacked' in icing conditions. I think the reason was if ice built up the props would not be able to react at a low speed and give sufficent thrust to increase speed and give lift if required.

Foggy43

Just watched BBC News 24 and there appears to be a disagreement between the NTSB and the FAA.

The NTSB are saying the autopilot was engaged and this is normal and I agree with this. The word 'recommendation' comes up. It appears flying manually in severe icing conditions is only a recommendation. There is still no proof the icing conditions were severe.

pclancy

NTSB Update:

US National Transportation Safety Board investigators have cleared around half the wreckage of the crashed Colgan Air Bombardier Q400 from the impact site, and aim to have the rest cleared within two days.

Both Pratt & Whitney PW150 engines have been recovered for transport tomorrow and the agency has retrieved all six propeller blades from each powerplant.

NTSB member Steven Chealander says preliminary examination shows the engine condition is "consistent with high-powered flight" at the time of the accident.

Other sections of the aircraft recovered include five of the six de-icing valves, the control columns, and the de-icing boots. Chealander says the NTSB has retrieved "good boots" and is confident of being able to determine whether they were working.

Investigators have obtained the flight plan and other documentation, a total of 30 pages, but the NTSB is yet to download the on-board aircraft communications and addressing system (ACARS) records to establish how much in-flight weather information the crew had available.

Chealander says the crew's intended landing configuration was with 15° of flap, and that initial calculations put the Q400's weight at 55,000lb (24,950kg) with a reference speed of 119kt - this rose to 139kt as a result of the precautionary activation of a switch to increase stall margins by 20kt. Preliminary flight-data evidence puts the aircraft's calibrated airspeed at 134kt, but Chealander warns against reading too much into the early figures.

Manufacturer Bombardier, he says, claims that the Q400 is "not susceptible" to tail stall.

While forecasts on the night of the accident, 12 February, indicated an 80% probability of icing conditions from the surface to 8,000ft, the only pilot report on severe icing was relayed from Dunkirk, some 50km southwest of Buffalo.

Chealander states that a second Colgan Air aircraft, which departed for Buffalo 27min behind the accident flight, experienced moderate icing between 4,000-2,500ft but arrived without incident.

But the NTSB is seeking more information on weather experienced by pilots on the night of the crash, and is to issue a questionnaire in order to gather data over the next few weeks.

Davidth88

I seem to remember the dash7 ( the forrunner to this aircraft I think ) was grounded for a short time because of it's suseptability ( or inability to deal with possibly ) icing ....... does anyone else remember that ?

FlutterinBantam

Yes. and the ATR series.