Midlands International Airport: Good idea or not?

Schuhart

markpb wrote: »

And for the record, I agree with you about O'Leary - what he says doesn't matter, it's what he does that matters. He's not exactly consistent with his opinions, he just does what is right for his company, right now.

Indeed, and I've no doubt that he'd fly to the Moon if he could make a profit. I've also no doubt that, if the alternative airport was actually there, he'd be threatening to remove all his flights to there every second week.

Doesn't it key on whether a competing airport in Offaly could be so much cheaper as to make it worth people's while to go there. The judgement call there is really around to what extent the cost of T2 will impact on passenger charges at Dublin, compared to what investors in the Offaly airport would required to make a profit on their investment.

But, all that said, I really don't see the case for Ryanair to serve this airport if, for the sake of argument, they're not bothering with Waterford. I think we have to get our thinking straight. The reason that they serve Paris out of Beauvais isn't because its an inconvenient location. Its that despite it being an inconvenient location they can still attract the business. I think there's a tendency to confuse the cost with the benefit here.

Bards

Schuhart wrote: »

But, all that said, I really don't see the case for Ryanair to serve this airport if, for the sake of argument, they're not bothering with Waterford. .

1.) Ryanair started in Waterford
2.) they will more than likely return once the runway is lengthened to accomodate their jets

Schuhart

Bards wrote: »

1.) Ryanair started in Waterford
2.) they will more than likely return once the runway is lengthened to accomodate their jets

Grand.

Do you feel this means there is a business case for the proposed Midlands airport?

invincibleirish

Bards wrote: »

1.) Ryanair started in Waterford
2.) they will more than likely return once the runway is lengthened to accomodate their jets

Who is gonna pay for the runway to be lengthened?

The Gubberment?

Schuhart

invincibleirish wrote: »

Who is gonna pay for the runway to be lengthened?

The Gubberment?

I hate to lose focus, but it looks like €22.3 million was allocated for Waterford Airport. I've no idea what it was for.

Can I mention in passing (in case this gets excessively tribal) I don't think Martin Cullen is as bad as the media make him out to be. He strikes me as an average Minister, with the normal eye to his constituency. I'd also generally agree that the South East gets nothing like the attention to the West gets.

(But, I'm afraid, I think the country already has too many Universities. I'd be more likely to join a campaign to reduce the number of Dublin universities by one than to increase the number of Irish universities by one.)

Anyway, I've a feeling the thread may shortly meander a bit.

Bards

invincibleirish wrote: »

Who is gonna pay for the runway to be lengthened?

The Gubberment?

The same people who paid for Cork's new Terminal Building :rolleyes:

Schuhart

Bards wrote: »

The same people who paid for Cork's new Terminal Building :rolleyes:

You mean customers of former Aer Rianta airports and subsidiaries?

I don't see a need for us to lose reason over this. But lets at least stick to the facts. I take it the investment in Waterford is part of the package that the Government got State Aids clearance from Europe for. If they were arsed, the Government could similarly have looked for State Aids clearance from Europe to put taxpayers money into clearing the Cork Airport debt. But they didn't.

invincibleirish

The point of comparison between Waterford & The proposed Midlands Airport is a valid one. Using criteria laid down by previous Governments then it stands to reason why shouldn't the Midlands have an airport paid for out of the public purse, supported by local Gov. through assistance with planning and financially assisted with PSOs? the demographics are similar, the logic used is familiar.

Btw Schuhart i believe that Cullen was/is an atrocious Minister, far worse then the rest of his cabinet colleagues over the years. It is clear his concept of being a politician only ever extended to his naked self interest and the fulfilment of his role as 'Minister for Waterford'. The years he held the transport portfolio will be seen i believe in the future as the lost years when the scope for real change and improvement was possible but not enacted upon. I don't even have to mention his other peculiarities for judgement to be made....

marmurr1916

invincibleirish wrote: »

The point of comparison between Waterford & The proposed Midlands Airport is a valid one. Using criteria laid down by previous Governments then it stands to reason why shouldn't the Midlands have an airport paid for out of the public purse, supported by local Gov. through assistance with planning and financially assisted with PSOs? the demographics are similar, the logic used is familiar.

Would you get over your parochial obsession with having an airport in every backyard? It's bad enough that taxpayers' money is being p!ssed away on an airport in Waterford and now you want us to support the Bog of Allen International Airport!!!

You've more or less said that everybody should live within 50 miles of an international airport.

Why 50 miles? Why not 30 miles? Or 10 miles? Or 1 mile? Hell, why should I even have to leave my house? Why hasn't the government invented a Star Trek style transporter? Beam me up Dempsey!

Here's what your posts on this topic translate to:

Want airport! Want airport! Waaaaaaaaaah!!!
Want airport! Want airport! Waaaaaaaaaah!!!
Want airport! Want airport! Waaaaaaaaaah!!!
Want airport! Want airport! Waaaaaaaaaah!!!
Want airport! Want airport! Waaaaaaaaaah!!!

marmurr1916

invincibleirish wrote: »

Whats that wooshing sound?


Oh why its my posts going completely over Marmur 1916s head.

Sorry, mixed you up with veryangryman.

veryangryman

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Sorry, mixed you up with veryangryman.

Even though you quoted him directly? :rolleyes:

And to answer the question on "why 50 miles", I find that beyond that distance is unreasonable to expect someone need to travel to a decent facility, rural based people or otherwise. Yes we choose to live away from the cities - this does not mean that we are not entitled to have some international facilities within an hours drive like every other region of the country has.

Schuhart

veryangryman wrote: »

this does not mean that we are not entitled to have some international facilities within an hours drive like every other region of the country has.

Yes it fecking does mean that. The equivalent would be for a city-dweller to say 'I don't see why living in an apartment block in the Docklands should mean I don't have land for a vegetable garden just outside my front door'.

You don't seem terribly angry. But you are very, very confused.

nordydan

This is the biggest joke thread I have read yet. How many people would this airport serve? Does Skibbereen get an airport as well?

mysterious

I was the first one to point it out as a joke thread

It's only then people suddenly realised how idiotic it was, I'm sorry.......


But there were intellegent people actually discussing this as a maybe in the beginning, and not realising how stuuuuupid this is.:rolleyes:

As an Island, a small island, we have alot of airports and have a decent coverage of airports both local and international.

We actually have to much airports.
This 50 mile radius arport nonsense, would be deemd complete laughing stock in the real world.

USA a country 100 times bigger, would have millions traveeling daily to reach airports that are maybe 200miles away. It's reality. People outside of this country would see it as a norm that an airport is faraway

The problem in this country this "local i want attitude" is just specially a delusional thing about us.

Like the hypocrisy is just embarrassing, you get country people whinging about rural life, there is not enough facilities, but when they come to Dublin they moan about everything that the city represents.

It's a city, if you don't like dont come there.
Ir's a rural area, if you dont like it move to the city

There is no such thing as rural/city life in one.
Airports are built near cities.

Can a mod close this thread, it's getting beyond silly. I just cannot understand the local centrics on this board demanding an airport built under the states taxpayers money to benifet the local needs, of having a dedicated international airport for local people.

GIVE ME A BREAK:mad:

Farlane

We should consolidate Shannon and Knock into Galway airport, never mind creating new ones.

GerardKeating

Farlane wrote: »

We should consolidate Shannon and Knock into Galway airport, never mind creating new ones.

Colsolidate Galway/Knock into Shannon, It's a fact there are more Buses from Galway City to Shannon Airport than to Galway airport, there is even a more frequent service from Galway to Cork airport than to from Galway to Galway or Knock airports.

All the money wasted on Galway airport would have been better spent on better road/rail links to Cork/Shannon/Dublin airports.

KevR

GerardKeating wrote: »

Colsolidate Galway/Knock into Shannon, It's a fact there are more Buses from Galway City to Shannon Airport than to Galway airport, there is even a more frequent service from Galway to Cork airport than to from Galway to Galway or Knock airports.

All the money wasted on Galway airport would have been better spent on better road/rail links to Cork/Shannon/Dublin airports.

Agree.

I'm of the opinion that Shannon Airport should never have been built in Shannon but what's done is done.

When Galway City is connected to Shannon by a full motorway (M6 + M18) Shannon will practically be a local airport.

Also, it won't take that long to get to Dublin Airport once the M6 is fully finished.

I fly fairly frequently and I've never used Knock in my whole life despite it being so close to Galway - it can't compete with Dublin or Shannon when it comes to the availability of flights; it's also impossible to get to by public transport, Dublin & Shanon have decent public transport connections to Galway. I rarely use Galway Airport - again, not a great selection of flights and the flights tend to be quite expensive; no public transport.

veryangryman

mysterious wrote: »

Can a mod close this thread, it's getting beyond silly. I just cannot understand the local centrics on this board demanding an airport built under the states taxpayers money to benifet the local needs, of having a dedicated international airport for local people.

GIVE ME A BREAK:mad:

Yes mods - please close this thread because it reflects opinions differing to my own. Talk about throwing the toys out of the pram mysterious.

On topic, the airport would most probably not be just for local people if it is a proper international. As i stated before (and will repeat again if needs be), the likes of Ryanair may yet use this as an alternative to Dublin. The numbers using it would be huge as a result. This is not pie in the sky - its a very realistic argument given their business model.

Even if it didn't pan out that way, you still get an airport for a region that has no other international links for c 70 miles. Not on anybody's doorstep as you continue to exagerate.

The people of remote areas like Wexford, Claremorris, Tralee and Kilrush all have international connections not far away. I dont see what the problem is with getting one for the midland gateway towns or the anal attitude people have with development in these areas.

paulm17781

veryangryman wrote: »

On topic, the airport would most probably not be just for local people if it is a proper international. As i stated before (and will repeat again if needs be), the likes of Ryanair may yet use this as an alternative to Dublin. The numbers using it would be huge as a result. This is not pie in the sky - its a very realistic argument given their business model.

The people of remote areas like Wexford, Claremorris, Tralee and Kilrush all have international connections not far away. I dont see what the problem is with getting one for the midland gateway towns or the anal attitude people have with development in these areas.

Cool. Put together a valid business case, routes to profitability, pay back time. Put it to the County council, you must explain that it has to be funded locally and no money from Dublin, then we'll move on to stage two. This idea of yours is clearly sound fiscal planning. I don't know how it wasn't done sooner. I mean, Ryanair might go there, it really is a very realistic idea and not pie in the sky. BTW, what's far away?

Until you have this, we'll ignore that there shouldn't be an airport in every county and a country this size only needs one or two.

I have faith that this will work, from what I've seen of your plan. It might work, who knows. This is what business is all about, just built something that isn't needed and hope it will work, I mean, Ryanair may use it, they really might. Quickly now, no time to waste on this thread, the people of the midlands need you to get them out of the airportless quandary they're currently in. Imagine, choosing a rural life and not having all the facilities of the city. I am going to start petitioning Dublin City council as my Temple bar apartment isn't on a farm. I'm sick of us city people being discriminated against.

marmurr1916

veryangryman wrote: »

odel.

Even if it didn't pan out that way, you still get an airport for a region that has no other international links for c 70 miles. Not on anybody's doorstep as you continue to exagerate.

70 whole miles!!!! Good God!!!!! Why that's almost an hour's drive on a motorway...

As Schuhart has already pointed out, counties in the midlands send less in tax to central government than central government spends on these counties.

And now you want even more money form taxpayers in other regions spent on the midlands!!!!

If you and the people of the midlands want a Bog of Allen International Airport, then pay for it yourselves, instead of demanding even more money from taxpayers in other parts of Ireland.

mysterious

veryangryman wrote: »

Yes mods - please close this thread because it reflects opinions differing to my own. Talk about throwing the toys out of the pram mysterious.

It's not opinion, it's fact.
There is no need for or neccessity to have another international Airport.
Cork and Shannon, still have extra capacity. Dublin aiport T2 is coming onstream. Knock Airport is only carrying 2% of international traiffic of this country.

There is no NEED for another international Airport. Nobody is to far from an internatioanl airport.

This is a small country. Dublin/Shannon/Cork/Knock is enough.

On topic, the airport would most probably not be just for local people if it is a proper international. As i stated before (and will repeat again if needs be), the likes of Ryanair may yet use this as an alternative to Dublin. The numbers using it would be huge as a result. This is not pie in the sky - its a very realistic argument given their business model.

So why would we need another international airport, for the "craic"


That is your only argument, its for the craic and the benifet of people like you who begrudge travelling to an airport that is 50miles away.

Good god. do you actually realise, this is utter delusion.

Even if it didn't pan out that way, you still get an airport for a region that has no other international links for c 70 miles. Not on anybody's doorstep as you continue to exagerate.

An Airport 50 or 70miles away is the norm.

It is actually a luxurious to have an airport in 50miles in a rurul area.

Tullamore doesn't have the demand for an international airport.

The people of remote areas like Wexford, Claremorris, Tralee and Kilrush all have international connections not far away. I dont see what the problem is with getting one for the midland gateway towns or the anal attitude people have with development in these areas.

So yeah lets have every town 50miles from an international airport.:rolleyes:

This is like, every rural town needs a limo service, because the next town has it.

The problem, is that there isn't a demand for another international airport in this country. The midlands is about an hour ro Dublin airport. Seriously would you get real. With two motorways from the Midlands direct Dublin. Your not far from an Airport.

Seriously you have a car use it. international airports are not on a local needs list, get used to it.

Your going to have to acccep this. if you want an intenational airport for white elephant baloney. Then you raise the funds.

nordydan

If we could start from scratch, ideally there would be airports at Dublin(where it is because its them main one for north ansd south, and 3million people live along the M1/N1/A1 corridor)), Belfast (City), Derry (west of the city/maybe even in Donegal), Cork and Galway (near the N6/N17/N18 interchange, with a spur perhaps).

That would put 99%+ of the population within 90 mins drive of the airport. The saved money could be put into road and rail links. Everything else is not required. The remaining 1% (60,000 people) can go and f**k away off. :-)

If at some stage in the future the population of the island was to treble, there could be additional airports at say, New Ross, Sligo and Tullamore. Thats about 60-70 years away.

marmurr1916

veryangryman wrote: »

Even though you quoted him directly? :rolleyes:

Yes, because I'd just read over the whole thread again and I'd re-read your posts.

veryangryman wrote: »

And to answer the question on "why 50 miles", I find that beyond that distance is unreasonable to expect someone need to travel to a decent facility, rural based people or otherwise. Yes we choose to live away from the cities - this does not mean that we are not entitled to have some international facilities within an hours drive like every other region of the country has.

Utter nonsense. By that logic we should have areas with the same facilities, hospitals, universities, train stations, passport offices etc, etc, as Dublin every 50 miles.

To justify that, you'd need to have a large city every 50 miles. If you want that, then I suggest you go to live in the Netherlands, Belgium or some similarly densely populated country.

marmurr1916

mysterious wrote: »

The midlands is about an hour ro Dublin airport. Seriously would you get real. With two motorways from the Midlands direct Dublin. Your not far from an Airport.

I count four motorways: the M4, M6, M7 and M8. Plus the midlands is crossed by the main railway lines from Dublin to Sligo, Westport, Galway and Cork/Limerick/Ennis/Tralee.

In fact, it's hard to think of another region of Ireland with a largely rural population that's so well-served by good road and railway links.

And yet he who shall not be named still whinges...

mysterious

marmurr1916 wrote: »

To justify that, you'd need to have a large city every 50 miles. If you want that, then I suggest you go to live in the Netherlands, Belgium or some similarly densely populated country.

Yes but he wants all these facilities in rurral sparsely populated areas.:pac:

Even despite the fact hes not far from an international airport

Bog of allen wants it international airport plonked in the middle of it. This thread, is utterly stupid.............

iseethelight

This was mooted some time ago,but to replace Dublin Airport because it was too small and sitting on a couple of Billion € worth of land-this is no longer the case with T2 and the economic collapse.

I believe there were also some natural problems with a prevalence of fog in the proposed area.

Also in relation to earlier posts it is quite normal accross the EU to travel 50km to an airport but they don't contend with the infrastructure issue we have.You would go a long way to find a major airport with no railway station for example.

Don't mention Beauvois thats not the main airport in Paris.

veryangryman

iseethelight wrote: »

Don't mention Beauvois thats not the main airport in Paris.

It is if you fly Ryanair. Most irish people do

veryangryman

mysterious wrote: »

Yes but he wants all these facilities in rurral sparsely populated areas.:pac:

Even despite the fact hes not far from an international airport

Bog of allen wants it international airport plonked in the middle of it. This thread, is utterly stupid.............

What is your fascination with that Bog? You must have mentioned it 10 times by now. Do you think they're going to rename Dublin Airport to Ballymun Airport or something? Honestly, if you dont like the idea then nuts to you.

I'm very dissapointed with the lack of ambition displayed on this thread. If history has thought us anything, it is that some of the best development opportunities come from a recession. Everyone seems to be sitting back and waiting for Obama to wave his magic wand and fix everything rather than us to sort our own house out. The first sign of any political ambition is poo-poo'd by nay-sayers and pessimists alike.

I ask these people...Please switch off your news channel, take a chill pill and realise that the appocalypse is not happening. All ive heard the last few weeks is the public receiving less and giving more to their government. This is a small glimmer of light that they deserve.

My opinion. Sue me :pac:

markpb

veryangryman wrote: »

Do you think they're going to rename Dublin Airport to Ballymun Airport or something?

Collinstown would be more accurate, it's nowhere near Ballymun :P

I'm very dissapointed with the lack of ambition displayed on this thread. If history has thought us anything, it is that some of the best development opportunities come from a recession.

Lack of ambition has nothing to do with it. You still haven't pointed out how an airport in a sparsely populated area is viable without massive state subsidy. Those subsidies are fine if there's an obvious return for the state but when there are already airports nearby, what's the point in building a new one which will further dilute the effectiveness of those airports and itself. You seem to be hinging your hopes on Ryanair, I haven't seen a decent, economic argument for this airport yet.

paulm17781

markpb wrote: »

Lack of ambition has nothing to do with it. You still haven't pointed out how an airport in a sparsely populated area is viable without massive state subsidy. Those subsidies are fine if there's an obvious return for the state but when there are already airports nearby, what's the point in building a new one which will further dilute the effectiveness of those airports and itself. You seem to be hinging your hopes on Ryanair, I haven't seen a decent, economic argument for this airport yet.

Well put Mark. You forget one important detail though. Ryanair might consider it! :rolleyes:

I can't believe this is 7 pages long, it's nearly as irritating as the WRC thread.