Gatso Van in Waterford

spartacus93

after the Aldi roundabout heading in the new ross direction it's 50 / 60 for a bit. Goes up to 80 before the old turn off to the port road. and back down to 50 before the new roundabout (that links the village, n25, and port road). It stays at 50 between this roundabout and the next roundabout (that links n25 and the new bypass).

hth

renraw

The 50km limit kicks in just as you reach the bend coming from Bellevue towards the nissan garage...good bit before aldi's

baronflyguy

Stan Nangle wrote: »

The comparison with Kilkenny is a good one. That is a single carriageway, with a lot of urban traffic, lots of pedestrians on the hard shoulder, and much busier junctions. I spoke to a KK Councillor who told me that the only recurring problem they have is with cyclists getting clipped on the roundabouts. That wouldn't be a problem on the ORR - if cyclists would only use the ****** cycle path and not try to mix it with the traffic!

Have you cycled the ORR? If so you will have noticed that the cycle path doesn't go the full length of the ORR on both sides of the road. Plus when it comes it roundabouts you have to leave the cycle path and if cars entering the roundabout have not reduced their speed accidents could happen. Lucky I havent been clipped but I have seen people take the roundabouts at speed. So the KK Councillor has a valid point. Plus some cyclists would not use the cycling path for various reasons.

As a car user of the ORR I wouldn't mind an increase slightly to 70 or 80. As a cyclist 95% of drivers give space when overtaking, odd few have overtaken me fairly close - within arms distance. I only use the ORR off peak times - evenings and sundays.

Sorry Mod for going off topic here about this bit, maybe we should have a ORR thread.

Cabaal

The cyclepath on the ORR is a joke, I don't blame any cyclists for cycling on the road for a number of reason,
- They have to cross back and forth if they use the cycle path
- They have to yeild at roundabouts and junctions if they use the path
- They can't go very fast due to rules of the cycle path and fact its shared.

Poorly planned layout and cyclists are right to cycle on the road, cycling on the path is more of a danger to them.

The problems with cyclists generally happen when motorists break the law by passing too closely when they overtake or not yeilding to a cyclist who is already on a roundabout which a motorist must do by law!

Quigs Snr

Stan. The cyclepaths on the ORR are not true cyclepaths, they are wide footpaths with unsuitable kerbing at the roundabout junctions for many bikes. My colleagues and I are relatively serious cyclists, we would ride 300k+ in a week and usually do quite a bit of racing. If we were to use the cyclepaths we would be sharing a wide, bumpy footpath at around 60kph in sections with pedestrians, joggers and dog walkers. The first time I used that Path (damaging a wheel due to the surface not being suited to race wheels, I nearly hit a small child which escaped its mothers grasp, only for I anticipated the danger and had slowed down, the kid would be a goner). In addition, we would have no rights at the roundabout junctions, which would probably cause more accidents in itself than if the bike used the roundabout like the rest of the road vehicles (as indeed most cyclists have to do no matter where they go in Waterford, a town with a real love for roundabouts and speed ramps, including if they are crossing any of the ORR roundabouts from any of the various roads which go through it - a strange situation whereby a rider coming along the ORR would need to use a footpath and pedestrian crossing, whilst a rider coming at 90 degrees from town out towards the south on any of the many junctions would just continue along the road as normal - stupid in the extreme, but then again, this is Ireland, and this is Waterford so we have the worst of both worlds, when it comes to areas of excellence for common sense - it pains me as a local to say that).

This is especially a problem at night when although we are well lit up, the road itself in certain sections is not at all, neither are the walkers, joggers and dogs that would really need to be on their toes to make sure we don't hit them on some dark, windy night. I don't believe that cyclists should use those paths for the safety of the pedestrians involved. I would rather risk getting hit by a car (as I do every single time I get on a bike) than killing a pedestrian (which I don't do everytime I get on a bike - at least not to the same extent).

Therefore we choose to ride on the only decently surfaced piece of dual lane road in the town (which has a cyclist friendly 60kph limit). If a motorist hits a cyclist on that road though, whilst conceding that like all road users, cyclists do stupid things at times, it will usually be the motorists fault - much like insurers will always make it your fault if you run into the back of another car whatever the circumstances. It is after all 2 wide lanes all the way, mostly straight with a 60kph limit. I say that as a motorist by the way, not a cyclist (I only ride a bike for sport, not for transport)

I thought you were a green Stan ? Maybe I have that wrong, but I would be dissappointed to hear of any green swearing whilst referring to cyclists.

Cabaal

Quigs Snr, well said,
I couldn't comment directrly as I no longer cycle around Waterford but I used to for about 7 years...now I have to drive to work

Unlike alot of motorists I feel this has given me alot of respect for cyclists, sure they'll be muppets out there but most cyclists have enough common sense when cycling which has grown out of the fact they don't wish to be killed!

However in saying this no matter how good a cyclist is they still come up against muppet motorists who don't give them enough space and act like they don;t exist.

One example of this is there is a cyclist who cycles the Portlaw road into Waterford city on weekday mornings that I see every so often, he's always done a steady decent speed (perhaps 45-50mph?) and keeps in but that doesn't stop motorists acting the maggot by racing past him far too close along with other issues atleast from what I've seen.

Stan Nangle

Quigs Snr wrote: »

I thought you were a green Stan ? Maybe I have that wrong, but I would be dissappointed to hear of any green swearing whilst referring to cyclists.

I agree with most of what you posted, and have pointed out the problem you highlight to the NRA Design Engineer who is designing the new Glen Road in Tramore (he was proposing to reprise the ORR farce).

I have also made a submission to the County Council on the matter

My final point relates to the apparent intention to have cyclists and pedestrians sharing the same roadspace, as shown on the cross section. I would request that the footpath and cyclepath be clearly separated in order to reduce the possibility of collisions between cyclists and pedestrians, or the possibility that cyclists will use the vehicle carriageway instead, as happens on the Waterford City outer Ring Road.

My use of asterisks refers to the kamikaze tendencies of a minority of cyclists whose road reading, and consideration for other road users leaves a lot to be desired.

I was taught a rhyme when I was young: "He was right, dead right, as he sped along. But he's just as dead as if he were wrong."



I'm committed to providing better facilities for cyclists, and also for pedestrians and drivers. It should be possible to create an environment where everybody is comfortable and safe.

But anybody who cycles on the carriageway of the ORR at busy times deserves the asterisks (your points about the alternative notwithstanding).

rohe

spartacus93 wrote: »

after the Aldi roundabout heading in the new ross direction it's 50 / 60 for a bit. Goes up to 80 before the old turn off to the port road. and back down to 50 before the new roundabout (that links the village, n25, and port road). It stays at 50 between this roundabout and the next roundabout (that links n25 and the new bypass).

hth

oh right, thanks i was wondering as all the fine said was rathpatrick,slieverue, thanks again

Paddy@CIRL

Tonight Matthew, our favourite GATSO van is sitting on the dual carraigeway in Ferrybank, if your New Ross bound !

spartacus93

rohe wrote: »

oh right, thanks i was wondering as all the fine said was rathpatrick,slieverue, thanks again

no problem

That's the area between the two new rounabouts, just at euro fuels

Green Hornet

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

Tonight Matthew, our favourite GATSO van is sitting on the dual carraigeway in Ferrybank, if your New Ross bound !

Think it was on the other side this evening..........hope not but think so. It was parked on the new dual carriageway strip near the Old Creamery.

Was doing about 70 km/h when I saw it but I'm not sure what the speed limit is there (I know, I know........).

Bloody caught on the outskirts of Ferns 2 weeks ago (76 in 50) and I'm pretty sure I can expect another in the post this week.:mad: Wouldn't mind so much except that I keep getting caught miles outside of the built up areas.

Sully

Wasnt there tonight anyway, I passed by and didnt spot it.

Traumadoc

Stan Nangle wrote: »

I agree with most of what you posted, and have pointed out the problem you highlight to the NRA Design Engineer who is designing the new Glen Road in Tramore (he was proposing to reprise the ORR farce).

I have also made a submission to the County Council on the matter





My use of asterisks refers to the kamikaze tendencies of a minority of cyclists whose road reading, and consideration for other road users leaves a lot to be desired.

I was taught a rhyme when I was young: "He was right, dead right, as he sped along. But he's just as dead as if he were wrong."



I'm committed to providing better facilities for cyclists, and also for pedestrians and drivers. It should be possible to create an environment where everybody is comfortable and safe.

But anybody who cycles on the carriageway of the ORR at busy times deserves the asterisks (your points about the alternative notwithstanding).

I think that if you increase the speed limits on the ORR there will be more crashes some of which may be fatal.
You will also increase pollution. all to save - 30sec, 1 min max.
There are very few crashes on the ORR, most fatal crashes in Waterford happen on the Tramore road, the New Ross road or the Dungarvan (N25)

Bards

Traumadoc wrote: »

I think that if you increase the speed limits on the ORR there will be more crashes some of which may be fatal.
You will also increase pollution. all to save - 30sec, 1 min max.
There are very few crashes on the ORR, most fatal crashes in Waterford happen on the Tramore road, the New Ross road or the Dungarvan (N25)

total bullcr*p where's the evidence to back up your claim?

the problem at the moment we have a poorly set speed limit for the road in question. most people will not travel at the set legal limit but will drive at a safe speed comfortable to them, whille others will stick to the limit.

it is this spped differnetial which makes the ORR unsafe at the moment. a far safer speed limit would be 80 KM/h where 99% of the traffic would then be driving at this limit.

Stan Nangle

Bards wrote: »

total bullcr*p where's the evidence to back up your claim?

the problem at the moment we have a poorly set speed limit for the road in question. most people will not travel at the set legal limit but will drive at a safe speed comfortable to them, whille others will stick to the limit.

it is this spped differnetial which makes the ORR unsafe at the moment. a far safer speed limit would be 80 KM/h where 99% of the traffic would then be driving at this limit.

Here's some background on speed limits: Standardisation of Speed Limits

Traumadoc

Bards wrote: »

total bullcr*p where's the evidence to back up your claim?

the problem at the moment we have a poorly set speed limit for the road in question. most people will not travel at the set legal limit but will drive at a safe speed comfortable to them, whille others will stick to the limit.

it is this spped differnetial which makes the ORR unsafe at the moment. a far safer speed limit would be 80 KM/h where 99% of the traffic would then be driving at this limit.

Bullcr*p!
Where is your evidence that the ORR is unsafe?

Bards

Traumadoc wrote: »

Bullcr*p!
Where is your evidence that the ORR is unsafe?

from Stan Nagles link

http://stan-nangle.ie/archives/01136/feb-5th-road-safety/


International Studies consistently show that the bell curve of speeds for a given road will have the vast majority of drivers driving within a narrow range of speeds - ie. most people’s idea of the speed from which they can stop safely in the distance they can see to be clear is quite similiar.

This, of course, assumes that the Local Authorities have surfaced, lined, and signed the road appropriately - a big assumption in Ireland.

Based on the International Studies, over many decades, the consensus in road safety circles is that a speed limit should be set at the 85th percentile. This would see 85 of every 100 drivers being at or under the posted limit, about 10% being marginally over the posted limit, and the remaining 5% being the speed merchants who really aren’t paying attention to the road conditions.
===========================================
any time I use this road most drivers are doing 70 - 80 Km/h which falls under the 85th percentile rule - which local authorities and trasport agencies all over the World use. Failure to heed these guidlines would make a road less safe

now show me your facts???

Traumadoc

Thats not facts, its bullcr*p,
I asked you to back up your statement the ORR was unsafe- where are your facts?

It is probably the safest road in Waterford.
http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/List%20of%20Collision%20Prone%20Zones.pdf
It does not make the list of collision prone zones according to the Gardai.

Bards

Traumadoc wrote: »

Thats not facts, its bullcr*p,
I asked you to back up your statement the ORR was unsafe- where are your facts?

It is probably the safest road in Waterford.
http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/List%20of%20Collision%20Prone%20Zones.pdf
It does not make the list of collision prone zones according to the Gardai.

so everyone else is wrong and you are right??????????

just becasue there are less incidents on this road (it is a dual carriageway afterall) does not make the road safe.. are we to ignore decades of internation research?

In other words. just becasue something hasn't happened yet, you can't say that it never will. However, by ignoring the 85 percentile rule you are making it less safe

...and you still have not shown any facts that back up your inital statement that increasing the limit will make the road less safe?

Traumadoc

Bards wrote: »

...and you still have not shown any facts that back up your inital statement that increasing the limit will make the road less safe?

I never said they will make the road less safe I said I think it will.

There are too many junctions , some of which have peculiar road markings - such as to go straight at some roundabouts you take the outside lane approaching. While others say you can only turn right if you approach the roundabout in the outside lane and are not allowed to go straight.

The junctions are too close together also.

If you cannot provide facts could you at least provide the sources for your "International Studies"

Bards

Traumadoc wrote: »

If you cannot provide facts could you at least provide the sources for your "International Studies"

I did.. please re-read

Traumadoc

Where are these "International studies"?
You have provided a link to a green politicians blog, not a source.

No facts, no sources, yet you say " it is this spped differnetial which makes the ORR unsafe" :rolleyes:

Bards

Traumadoc wrote: »

Where are these "International studies"?
You have provided a link to a green politicians blog, not a source.

No facts, no sources, yet you say " it is this spped differnetial which makes the ORR unsafe" :rolleyes:

do a google on 85 percentile rule and you will find a wikipedia and numerous other articles on it

... and I quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit



Traffic engineers observe that the majority of drivers drive in a safe and reasonable manner, as demonstrated by consistently favorable driving records. A report from the British Columbia Ministry of Transportation includes in its summary the finding that the incidence of crashes depends more on variations in speed between vehicles than on absolute speed, and that the likelihood of a crash happening is significantly higher if vehicles are traveling at speeds slower or faster than the mean speed of traffic.[7]

here's some more
http://sense.bc.ca/research.htm
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/speeding.html

Multivan

I was on awhile ago and i was saying i saw the gatso van on the outter ring road, and someone was questioning where i saw it with my own eyes!:eek:

From the Butlerstown Roundabout heading towards Waterford Regional ok

The Six Cross Roads business park just before that roundabout theres a little pull in spot which actually has the driving test centre and yard for truck testing on the opposite side of the fence. He was there for a bit!

IF your stupid engough not to see a big white van on that road then thats your problem and when the guards do speed checks theyre normally in the same spaces one being at the mid section of the road at the six cross roads roundabout! not that i would approve of speeding!

And as for you mad lunatics that insist on overtaking me 2 metres from a roundabout and pulling back in front of me!:mad:

KOP ON if there is a crash and my son is hurt ill get out and smack the head off ye if its not already hangin off and even if it is ha

Sully

Multivan wrote: »

and as for you mad lunatics that insist on overtaking me 2 metres from a roundabout and pulling back in front of me!:mad:

KOP ON if there is a crash and my son is hurt ill get out and smack the head off ye if its not already hangin off and even if it is ha

Would it be worth going to jail for assault? :P

Multivan

Sully wrote: »

Would it be worth going to jail for assault? :P

This sounds sad ha, but did you see the late late show, that lad that killed manuela rado(spelling?) he was already on parole for another murder awaiting sentence and he also blinded an old man weeks before that he could only see from one eye already!

Theres no justice in the world you have to take your own! if it was me or me missus were adults we can fight in court or what ever but if it was my son who was hurt and then the lad or gal gets two years suspended sentence ???????

No justice typical Ireland you have to be a judges daughter or family memeber to get justice! and the guards will tell ye that! its just the way the law is! they cant do anything about that end of things man!

Im sure i wouldnt thump the head off someone but jaysurs Im tempted haha

dogs

Multivan wrote: »

This sounds sad ha, but did you see the late late show, that lad that killed manuela rado(spelling?) he was already on parole for another murder awaiting sentence and he also blinded an old man weeks before that he could only see from one eye already!

Theres no justice in the world you have to take your own! if it was me or me missus were adults we can fight in court or what ever but if it was my son who was hurt and then the lad or gal gets two years suspended sentence ???????

No justice typical Ireland you have to be a judges daughter or family memeber to get justice! and the guards will tell ye that! its just the way the law is! they cant do anything about that end of things man!

Im sure i wouldnt thump the head off someone but jaysurs Im tempted haha

It just goes to show, you can't be too careful.

rohe

heads up to everyone

the gatso van is parked up beside the top garage in ferrybank at the moment,has been there the last hour

Green Hornet

Bloody hell. They'll have everybody off the road within a few weeks at this rate!

By the way, can they issue you with multiple points without alerting you in between?

In other words, if you were caught 5 mornings in a row but did not get alerted between them could they serve you with 10 points?:eek:

Sully

Green Hornet wrote: »

Bloody hell. They'll have everybody off the road within a few weeks at this rate!

By the way, can they issue you with multiple points without alerting you in between?

In other words, if you were caught 5 mornings in a row but did not get alerted between them could they serve you with 10 points?:eek:

I assume so.. you still broke the law dude. :P