Gulf war milsim game, march sunday 8/3/09

Harlequin Wolf

Hivemind187 wrote: »

.All bullets are affected by wind to some degree (hence windage/elevation controls). Most infantry rifles are not accurised and tend to be set up for medium range engagements out to 300m. Out beyond this most battle rifles and infantry rifles begin to exhibit peculiarities based on the internal variations in assembly.

I agree, if you have a high crosswind to contend with its up to you to manouvre into the best firing position available before engaging. Try to get the wind at your back before you fire, or you'll just havta lead your target more.

Dr_Pepper

Some amount of misconceptions in here.
Iraqi 1 & 2 were in constant comms for at least the first hour.
The comms were cut but paul fixed them after 10 mins.
We then went to fix it the second time but went and got lunch instead.

Iraqi 1 went and got lunch and had essentially quit the game when conor-mr2 came over. The only reason we were in the building was because it was snowing outside.

Admittedly the game was good but there was too much rule changing, i.e o medic respawns, differnt grids on maps etc....
If its gonna be an all day event "as advertised" it would need to run all day and not break for lunch. That day i saw a lane assault a building assault and a fail assault. Not, what i would call a full day of MilSim.

Enough of the bravado **** tbh fellas your contradicting yourselves and bringing the thread down...

Sod'o swords

Hivemind187 wrote: »

a yard is three feet isnt it?

and again, shooting skill makes up for a lot of these shortcomings with the BB round.

What you appear to be saying is that you werent happy with the ammo limits, you wanted more. How many mags did you have?

I had 5 mags.
Yes I am, it's one of the things that i feel you can't majorly port over to realism to the extent that it was on sunday.

and yeah i think it's roughly 3 feet.

Harlequin Wolf

Sod'o swords wrote: »

I had 5 mags.

I believe the limit was 300 rounds (ten standard mags) which i think was a decent amount. In real life you may be able to carry 400-500 rounds but only if ye severely stripped yourself of other equipment.

A standard infantry load is aproximately 300 rounds.

Sod'o swords

I know, i had to borrow mine.

I know the real military limits, but what i'm getting at that bb's and bullets are different.

which is obvious as you'll all happily tell me.

But yet they seem to be considered the same when giving load outs, for airsoft...

Mind you I enjoyed the day and would love another one.

Just This is just something i always thought.
So now that the moment has presented itself i thought i'd voice my suggestions.

Harlequin Wolf

I think the problem is that if ye increase the amount of ammo people can carry in the milsim then whats the difference between that and a standard game?

We may aswell play regular airsoft.

Milsim is about getting it as close to the real thing as possible, but there will of course be limitations. I just think that if we start allowing bigger ammo loads it will just degenerate to the standard spray n pray stuff. Thats just my opinion.

Sod'o swords

Yeah i fully understand where you're coming from.

It was more than likely just a once off because of the wind, but on sunday, more than was allotted in the ammo limit was needed.

It may very well be different for other days/ scenarios.

Just a suggestion.

Stercus Accidit

I think 30 bbs works because of the difference in engagement range.


In airsoft, a definite tactic, is manuevering in and out of airsoft range, this means a part of the game is just entering engagement range when it suits.

In real war, this range would be 4-500 metres for most regular rifles, what odds are there to hit at that range? Similar to our odds at range limit I'd say.


Its proportional, just, on a smaller scale, thats how I see it, and I believe thats how other advocates of 30 rounds see it too.



RE: comms, if SF team can cut comms, iraqi team should be allowed go out and repair comms.

And I was under the impression that a scud site itself was outside of airstrike zone, or we would have used them on the scud, seeing as the iraqis are stuck there, it seems logical that you cant hit the scud in a strike, unless the iraqis have freedom to maneuver in a larger perimeter.

Harlequin Wolf

Sod'o swords wrote: »

It may very well be different for other days/ scenarios.

True, remember thats scenario was about an SF attack on 2 remote positions. There will of course be scenarios that will have provision for resupply and reinforcement and such.

Hivemind187

Dr_Pepper wrote: »

Some amount of misconceptions in here.
Iraqi 1 & 2 were in constant comms for at least the first hour.
The comms were cut but paul fixed them after 10 mins.
We then went to fix it the second time but went and got lunch instead.

Iraqi 1 went and got lunch and had essentially quit the game when conor-mr2 came over. The only reason we were in the building was because it was snowing outside.

Admittedly the game was good but there was too much rule changing, i.e o medic respawns, differnt grids on maps etc....
If its gonna be an all day event "as advertised" it would need to run all day and not break for lunch. That day i saw a lane assault a building assault and a fail assault. Not, what i would call a full day of MilSim.

Enough of the bravado **** tbh fellas your contradicting yourselves and bringing the thread down...

Rule changing.

There is no mention in the rules of medics getting to respawn. The use of the word "regen" I agree is misleading however there was no "rule change". I spoke to you about this and was under the impression that Paul had said something to the effect of players being allowed to respawn after the initial rules had been posted. I can't find anything to that effect now.

No where in the rules does it say anything about being given gridmaps. I agree it needed to be made much clearer. Live and learn.

I'm sorry you didnt get an engagement during he first half of the day but I would remind you that it was the decisions of your own team (the hawks) that led to it not anything decided upon by Paul.

Stercus Accidit

In fairness, earlier on in this thread, it was indicated that a medic took 20mins to respawn, it may have been changed later, but the single life was a rule change just before the game started.

I don't have a problem with that, it added realism, the main gripe I'd say is the limitations imposed on the iraqis to mount a counter attack of some sort, when the SF were taking so long.

I'll be honest, I enjoyed the day, I really really enjoyed game 2, but if I could have had some influence on game 1, I would have had twice the experience.


I thinks its quite heartening to see the passion milsim has enstilled in the players, disagreements or not, everyone wants milsim to improve, and be more frequent, we just happen to be in the teething stage at the moment.

Hivemind187

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

In fairness, earlier on in this thread, it was indicated that a medic took 20mins to respawn, it may have been changed later, but the single life was a rule change just before the game started.

Yeah, I know. I just found that.

Sorry Dr.P, my bad on that call.

Puding

sorry guys but if your going to argue this much about rules and regs , to me you have missed the point of milsim/filmsim, rules and an ammo limit do not make the game its the attitude of the players that makes the differance

Stercus Accidit

Bar the niggling issues with rules, overall I'd call it a sucess, and want to thank Hive Paul and Mel and all who helped contribute on the day.

I think the overall impression is a positive one, and its a good thing that next time these sorts of issues players have had will be given consideration, regardless of how this thread may be seen as complaining, its a good thing to have these sorts of opinions expressed and discussed, I'm personally confident the next time round will be even better.

Rogue-Trooper

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Bar the niggling issues with rules, overall I'd call it a sucess, and want to thank Hive Paul and Mel and all who helped contribute on the day.

I think the overall impression is a positive one, and its a good thing that next time these sorts of issues players have had will be given consideration, regardless of how this thread may be seen as complaining, its a good thing to have these sorts of opinions expressed and discussed, I'm personally confident the next time round will be even better.

+1

hrta

After just reading back over all the posts, and i think most poeple, did not read, any of my posts, so i have just posted them below, but dont get me wrong, i'm not getting at any one, but i posted all the info, that was needed, i even give a heads up, on the weather, i have planned missions, and the most important thing with any mission, is intel, then planning, and a back up plan.




I will do see what numbers show up, as i would like every one to have a go on the Special Forces unit, i will need 5 teams to run this game, one SF team, and 4, Iraqi missile team units.



If you any one, that can make this game, please post your name up here, so i can work out the game rules and times, also there will be no stopping for lunch or hanging around time, to take time to reload or taking a breather in between, every thing you need bring it with you in to the field, thanks.

Paul.

Fixed, Sorry about that, i copyed some of the rules from PR3, as a good few from here, are going over to this event, i thought it might help them by keeping the rules along the same line's as PR3, and i never used a medic rule before in a milsim game, at my site, so i would like to see how it works,
as for the basements, 3 cabins on the site, have an air space under them, that could be used as a basement, or for cover from an airstrike.

I need to see if i have the numbers to run, 4 missile site's, if not i will have to down size it to 3 missile site's, i'm hoping that all the teams get a go at playing the Sayeret Yahalom Special Forces, thanks.
Paul.

I need names posted to make up the teams and roles to be played, thanks.
Paul.

I was thinking of some thing the same, but some poeple dont even have a uniform, i was hopeing to get every one to get to play the Special Forces at some point in the day, the Special Forces team, are to get to the scud missile site's, and place a shaped charge's on the scud missile's, to take them out, this game is more to do with work as a team, planing an atack, and defending.

Roll call.
Please add your name were you would like to play.


Sayeret Yahalom Special Forces.

squad will have one player assigned as a section medic.




Iraqi TELSs.


squad will have one player assigned as a section medic, per team.

Thanks,

Paul.

Just a reminder, please read up on the rules, or print a set, and bring with you, also there will be no stopping for lunch or hanging around time, or taken time to reload or taking a breather in between, every thing you need, bring it with you in to the field, thanks.

Paul.

The IDF Intelligence Command so far has said that 4 A-10 strike aircraft flew over these zones during the day, and F-15Es fitted with LANTIRN pods and synthetic aperture radars patrolled at night. However, the infrared and radar signatures of the Iraqi TELSs were almost impossible to distinguish from ordinary trucks and from the surrounding electromagnetic clutter. While patrolling strike aircraft managed to sight their targets on 42 occasions, they were only able to acquire them three times long enough to release their ordnance. In addition, the Iraqi missile units dispersed their Scud TELs and hid them in culverts, 4 extended-range Scud missile fixed launching sites, have been spotted by Israel observers, the Israelis have asked for more batteries of Patriot missiles, but with the Patriot's difficulties stemmed from the fact that it was designed as an anti-aircraft weapon, The IDF Intelligence Command, have now desided to send in there Sayeret Yahalom Special Forces, demolitions unit, to take out these last 4 missile site's.



I dont know what way i'm fixed with numbers, as not ever one has posted there name up, as too who is going, i will be start off the game with 2 missile site's, as i dont know what numbers i have till sunday.

So there will be 3 teams, please post your name up, for what team you want.


There will be one team of, Sayeret Yahalom Special Forces.

There will be two team's of, Iraqi's.


All teams will have to draw a map of the site, to call in air strike's, Iraqi's can call in air strike's every hour, on the hour, only, Israeli team can call in air stike's every 40 min's, on the hour, only, Air stikes can only take out one room of a building, at any one time, or 5 meters out side in the open, any one in the room is taken out, or any one in the 5 meter's area out side. Missile's can not be taken out with air stike's.

Iraqi team's are to defend the missile site, one team per missile site.

Israeli team have to place a two shaped charge's, have to be fixed to the missile, to take them out.

And just to let poeple know, this is not like, any other airsoft days gaming, most of the time, you might not get a shot off, for up to an hour or more, there are a few rules, that you will have to fallow, you need to have read the rules, or print them, and bring them with you, if you dont know the rules on the day, you might have to sit out for a few hours till you have read them.

Make sure you draw a good map with good co-ordinates, on it.

Just a heads up on the Weather

Weather forecast for Sunday is for snow, 40km westerly and 5deg.

Hi Johnny, can you command one iraqi team for me, and if so, were would you like to set up your missile site.
Thanks,
Paul.

I dont have a grid reference system worked out, that will be up to you tomorrow, so get it right, or i'll miss your target.

Air support will only be available at certain times. With in that, time window, you can either specify immediate or timed delivery. If the target is close to your own position, And i have been informed by the IR air force, with the way money is in the world, they only drop one bomb at a time, with there buget.

All teams will have to draw a map of the site, to call in air strike's, Iraqi's can call in air strike's every hour, on the hour, only, Israeli team can call in air stike's every 40 min's, on the hour, only, Air stikes can only take out one room of a building, at any one time, or 5 meters out side in the open, any one in the room is taken out, or any one in the 5 meter's area out side. Missile's can not be taken out with air stike's.


I forgot to say, i have the wires layed out, for the field telephones, between the 2 missile base's, there is a junction box, that needs an over watch, or you loose your comms.

Dr_Pepper

hrta wrote: »

I forgot to say, i have the wires layed out, for the field telephones, between the 2 missile base's, there is a junction box, that needs an over watch, or you loose your comms.

We were told on the day that we were not allowed to leave our perimeter.
Tbh there were a lot of miscomms and mess ups, changes in rules etc.
But we live, we learn.

AlternateID

Also told we couldn't airstrike a base.

Spetzcong

AlternateID wrote: »

Also told we couldn't airstrike a base.

I was confused by that as well when we got hit by an airstrike right at our scud. Hive cleared it up for me, the rules stated, scuds could not be taken out by airstrikes, it didn't say anything about players who were standing around the scud though.

Few things go perfectly the first time around though, I had a great fun day and I reckon next time we have a go at this game we'll all have a much better understanding of how it's supposed to work.

Harlequin Wolf

I think there was a bit of confusion about what area's of the field were imune to airstrikes and which weren't. Also i didn't think that we would have to be as specific with the airstrike co-ordinates as we had to be.......there was a lot of grid divisions on the map, and then we had to divide those grids a second time with such designations as grid B-5 point 3 and such.

I think in future we should simply have to state a single grid because it takes about 5 minute to estimate where within the grid you want the airstrike to land............it was all a bit confusing and unplanned.

Hivemind187

Harlequin Wolf wrote: »

I think there was a bit of confusion about what area's of the field were imune to airstrikes and which weren't. Also i didn't think that we would have to be as specific with the airstrike co-ordinates as we had to be.......there was a lot of grid divisions on the map, and then we had to divide those grids a second time with such designations as grid B-5 point 3 and such.

I think in future we should simply have to state a single grid because it takes about 5 minute to estimate where within the grid you want the airstrike to land............it was all a bit confusing and unplanned.

The grid squares would be too big that way. No areas were immune from airstrikes, only the SCUDS themselves couldnt be taken out that way.

One team member should have the responsibility for calling in the strike and should be watching for thei window. It's honestly not that difficult.

Delta-3-niner for example is simply the bottom righthand square of grid D3. Not that complex.

Harlequin Wolf

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Delta-3-niner for example is simply the bottom righthand square of grid D3. Not that complex.

Yes but ye also havta remember that we were all using different maps that we had to make up on the fly. Next time proper maps should be made and ready for distribution on the day.

A lot of the confusion could be avoided if we are all singing from the same hymn sheet as it were.

hrta

+ I forgot to say in the above post, i only had 21 poeple signed up for the game, but 29 players showed up on the day, so i had to try and plan around that number on the day, this is what slows things on the day, trying to get the games started, just as players need info, so do i, to run the games, or if i need to change the rules, it helps, if i have the numbers a few days before the day, and what, roll's poeple would like to play on the day.

hrta

I'll put this up, for the next time any one is going to play, a milsim game, just as i would do, if i was going to go to play some were.

The planning phase,

First up, what is the mission, ROE, and the time restrictions, if any.

Maps, are there any, do i need to make one, or add to the most up to date one i can find.

photographs, from the air, or gound level, satellite imagery.

Any previous reports, on the location.

Local knowledge, who may be able to provide information.

Time of the year.

Routes in and out.

What specialist equipment do i need for the mission.

What surport do i have, if i need it.

Once the location has been provision-ally selected, a detailed CTR must be carried out in order to confirm its suitability, it is also necessary to confirm that it will have a defendable location should you have to fight from it.

Hivemind187

Harlequin Wolf wrote: »

Yes but ye also havta remember that we were all using different maps that we had to make up on the fly. Next time proper maps should be made and ready for distribution on the day.

A lot of the confusion could be avoided if we are all singing from the same hymn sheet as it were.

Understandable, but myself and Paul had copies of your maps which was why we asked people to identify themselves.

No point in you having the same map as the enemy is there?

I dont disagree that it was complicated but we've learned from it so next time (and certainly on the MilSim night) there will be a different methodology in practice.

sliabh

Hivemind187 wrote: »

I dont disagree that it was complicated but we've learned from it so next time (and certainly on the MilSim night) there will be a different methodology in practice.

Any plans (tentative or otherwise) for another mil-sim event that you can tell us about?

Hivemind187

sliabh wrote: »

Any plans (tentative or otherwise) for another mil-sim event that you can tell us about?

Coming Soon at HRTA: The Jebrovian War.

Episodic warfare, weeknights from April.

Can't go into more detail than that just yet but I've got something planned.

Stercus Accidit

As above, we were told we had to stay at our scud, if we'd known we could go out to repair comms, we'd definitely have done that.

Regardless, leasons learned, I'm well up for the next milsim.

Hivemind187

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

As above, we were told we had to stay at our scud, if we'd known we could go out to repair comms, we'd definitely have done that.

At this stage we're going around in circles.

Folks, take these things in context. MilSim games are infinitely harder to run than a standard days skirmishing, there are always going to be technical glitches, cockups, miscommunications etc in the early days of any complex organisation.

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Regardless, leasons learned, I'm well up for the next milsim.

Excellent.

Rogue-Trooper

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Coming Soon at HRTA: The Jebrovian War.

Episodic warfare, weeknights from April.

Can't go into more detail than that just yet but I've got something planned.

Sounds great! Was actually about to post on the HRTA thread to ask had you gone any further with the regular weeknight Milsim you had teased us with! My appetite for Milsim has been well & truly whetted now - bring it on!!