Gulf war milsim game, march sunday 8/3/09

Harlequin Wolf

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

I think there was a miss balance of teams on the day, there needs to be at least 4:3 in favor of the attackers versus each missile team, or they each have two lives, and the defenders have one, with standard medic rules.

In my opinion the teams weren't imbalanced, it was meant to be a difficult scenario. Besides do ye think SF in real life are gonna have superior numbers most of the time? SF are smaller groups of better trained better equipped soldiers, if they had the same numbers they'ld just be regulars.

Rogue-Trooper

sliabh wrote: »

This is what made you "extra special" forces. Added to which, when you finally came out of your cubby hole you couldn't take any of the scuds!

Epic fail all round...

Yeah, they sat around for half an hour working out their strategy (over tea & soup apparently) and when they finally emerged they attacked the hardest of the 2 sites and died trying. The soup was obviously THICK COUNTRY VEGETABLE....

Masada

sliabh wrote: »

Wasn't me guv. I was one of the people scratching their nads for 2 hours waiting for you guys to finish. And then when it was our turn we took our scud in 35 minutes.

Better to return to Tel Aviv with one knocked out than none!

Ahhh right,you were on the other team then, so whatever way you look at it, in the 1 and only the fight between hawks and your squad, we tore yis to bits.

Stercus Accidit

Harlequin Wolf wrote: »

In my opinion the teams weren't imbalanced, it was meant to be a difficult scenario. Besides do ye think SF in real life are gonna have superior numbers most of the time? SF are smaller groups of better trained better equipped soldiers, if they had the same numbers they'ld just be regulars.

AFAIK the sf had the same ammo limit, 1 joule aegs and wind as everyone else.

SF just doesnt translate to airsoft, sf would have accurate rifles, night vision etc. In airsoft, we have to consider the reality of the game, and its limitations.

Stercus Accidit

Masada wrote: »

Ahhh right,you were on the other team then, so whatever way you look at it, in the 1 and only the fight between hawks and your squad, we tore yis to bits.

I blew up a scud.

How many scuds did you blow up?

Zero scuds?

It was a scud hunt, we hunted and killed one scud, you shot some poor sap in the legs who had a bandy aeg and no ammo. (me :P)

We won, but whos counting

Masada

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

AFAIK the sf had the same ammo limit, 1 joule aegs and wind as everyone else.

SF just doesnt translate to airsoft, sf would have accurate rifles, night vision etc. In airsoft, we have to consider the reality of the game, and its limitations.

yeah it makes sense to have more lads. the Scud 1 site was like a fortress. we got really close and either got shot or got bored. I was fed up sitting in the soupy ditch so i just fecked off the the safezone so we could get sorted out for the next game.

moggser

Masada wrote: »

yeah it makes sense to have more lads. the Scud 1 site was like a fortress. we got really close and either got shot or got bored. I was fed up sitting in the soupy ditch so i just fecked off the the safezone so we could get sorted out for the next game.

i hears ya threw your toy's out the pram and left lmao

Stercus Accidit

Masada wrote: »

yeah it makes sense to have more lads. the Scud 1 site was like a fortress. we got really close and either got shot or got bored. I was fed up sitting in the soupy ditch so i just fecked off the the safezone so we could get sorted out for the next game.

It will serve as a learning experience for the next game, as game two was so good, I'd like to see that happen again.

Masada

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

you shot some poor sap in the legs who had a bandy aeg and no ammo. (me :P)

We won, but whos counting

Actually...
I stalked you up until you were ready to pounce, completely unaware of my presence I waited until you were close and i popped a cap in yo a$$, Then proceeded to make my way down to reinforce my lads in taking on jonney and conor, both of which died to the barrel of my Pistol....

Masada

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

It will serve as a learning experience for the next game, as game two was so good, I'd like to see that happen again.

yup., we'll know what to do differently next time. I just dont think the locations of the scuds suited the game scenario and the playing field we had.

Harlequin Wolf

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

AFAIK the sf had the same ammo limit, 1 joule aegs and wind as everyone else.

SF just doesnt translate to airsoft, sf would have accurate rifles, night vision etc. In airsoft, we have to consider the reality of the game, and its limitations.

I can see your point, but in real life you're only gonna be carrying the same ammo as a potential enemy (even SF are only able to carry so much) but maybe they should be able to have some sort of ammo drop rule.
The thing about the SF in that scenario is that they really have to use all their advantages to the absolute limit, such as airstrikes and mobility. The only way to take out the scuds is to get a good momentum attack going and try not to get bogged down in protracted firefights.

Stercus Accidit

Masada wrote: »

Actually...
I stalked you up until you were ready to pounce, completely unaware of my presence I waited until you were close and i popped a cap in yo a$$, Then proceeded to make my way down to reinforce my lads in taking on jonney and conor, both of which died to the barrel of my Pistol....

You sat in a bush.

Thats what you did.

I had to run through open ground, you had to sit on your ass, and point the dulux gun at me :P

moggser

Masada wrote: »

yup., we'll know what to do differently next time. I just dont think the locations of the scuds suited the game scenario and the playing field we had.

it's a learning curve
next time round should be a lot better but it was good none the less

Harlequin Wolf

moggser wrote: »

it's a learning curve
next time round should be a lot better but it was good none the less

I agree, remember that milsim is still in it's infancy in Ireland. I think HRTA is the only site giving it any serious consideration as a regular event.

Stercus Accidit

Harlequin Wolf wrote: »

I can see your point, but in real life you're only gonna be carrying the same ammo as a potential enemy (even SF are only able to carry so much) but maybe they should be able to have some sort of ammo drop rule.
The thing about the SF in that scenario is that they really have to use all their advantages to the absolute limit, such as airstrikes and mobility. The only way to take out the scuds is to get a good momentum attack going and try not to get bogged down in protracted firefights.

If it were real, the sf would be equipping accurate rifles with optics, the iraqis would be firing old AK's and not be as disciplined in aiming.

In this case, we were all equipping the same guns, and with equal training, and all had air strikes.


In reality, it was a very even match except one group was bedded in, the other had to be the aggressor. To make up for this, the number of lives or men should be changed in future.


Even numbers at the site 2 would be fine, and was fine, but the elevated site, needs to have less men to suit its natural advantage.

Masada

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

You sat in a bush.

Thats what you did.

I had to run through open ground, you had to sit on your ass, and point the dulux gun at me :P

you actually ran right past me to begin with, i was going to take the shot but i decided to give you a false sense of security and let you believe you hadn't been spotted. then you did all the rest of the work for me.

Hivemind187

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

If it were real, the sf would be equipping accurate rifles with optics, the iraqis would be firing old AK's and not be as disciplined in aiming.

In this case, we were all equipping the same guns, and with equal training, and all had air strikes.


In reality, it was a very even match except one group was bedded in, the other had to be the aggressor. To make up for this, the number of lives or men should be changed in future.


Even numbers at the site 2 would be fine, and was fine, but the elevated site, needs to have less men to suit its natural advantage.

Um ... MilSim isnt about game balancing?

This isnt StarCraft.

Harlequin Wolf

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

If it were real, the sf would be equipping accurate rifles with optics, the iraqis would be firing old AK's and not be as disciplined in aiming.

I agree that in airsoft there certainly isn't as big a difference in quality of equipment as in real life. However thats the thing about milsim, it really is more about the players themselve's than what they're packin. There's no sprayin away for 2 minutes solid with the same mag. But thats what i love about it, it's the only game type where real tactics yield better results.

Stercus Accidit

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Um ... MilSim isnt about game balancing?

This isnt StarCraft.

wtf is a star craft?


People wont pay 20 euro to stand around for 2 hours in the cold, milsim wont take off, but I want it to, because it can be so great.

What is milsim about then? In the case where something like weapons and training advantage for SF cant be simulated at all, something else has to make up for that.


You may as well claim snipers have a range advantage of a mile, it may make sence in reality, but we cant very well simulate that in airsoft in Ireland can we.


The rules need to simulate a real situation, but where it cant be simulated due to the limitations of the sport, some other advantage should be given, in this case, a few less men on the raised area might have changed the game.

Harlequin Wolf

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

wtf is a star craft?


People wont pay 20 euro to stand around for 2 hours in the cold, milsim wont take off.

Milsim will take off with a certain kind of player. The other problem is as i've said, milsim is still young in this country and people here are still only used to playing regular airsoft, and milsim is played very differently. Its a much more metally based game type. As for the advantage you're looking for, in milsim that advantage goes to the team who uses the best tactics.

Stercus Accidit

Harlequin Wolf wrote: »

Milsim will take off with a certain kind of player. The other problem is as i've said, milsim is still young in this country and people here are still only used to playing regular airsoft, and milsim is played very differently. Its a much more metally based game type. As for the advantage you're looking for, in milsim that advantage goes to the team who uses the best tactics.

I get that, I enjoy milsim, but you cant say an elevated position with wind advantage (and about twice the range of the opposite direction) is milsim.

It was very balanced attacking scud site 1, we lost men through our own mistakes, and used a good bit of ammo, but site 2, just didnt work.


In a real scenario, game 1, a SF assault that took 2 hours, with another base nearby, reinforcement would have come by then, and I know most of the lads at the lower base were annoyed they couldnt attack for all that time, as the SF were obviously struggling so much.

Harlequin Wolf

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

I get that, I enjoy milsim, but you cant say an elevated position with wind advantage (and about twice the range of the opposite direction) is milsim.

I can say..........and it's exactly milsim. The worst mission for a soldier in real life is attacking a dug in position on elevated ground. Ever seen hamburger hill?

Stercus Accidit

Harlequin Wolf wrote: »

I can say..........and it's exactly milsim. The worst mission for a soldier in real life is attacking a dug in position on elevated ground. Ever seen hamburger hill?

I can live with that base being tough, but when it meant the lads were waiting 2 hours doing nothing, some reinforcements should have been sent to sweep out the SF.

I'm merely relaying alot of the sentiments on the day, I want milsim to take off and improve in airsoft here.

Harlequin Wolf

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

I can live with that base being tough, but when it meant the lads were waiting 2 hours doing nothing, some reinforcements should have been sent to sweep out the SF.

I'm merely relaying alot of the sentiments on the day, I want milsim to take off and improve in airsoft here.

I agree that the scud teams should have been allowed to send out patrols. Maybe 2 or 3 man teams to scout or reinforce as they were needed. It also would have provided the SF with the ability to set ambushes.

Stercus Accidit

Harlequin Wolf wrote: »

I agree that the scud teams should have been allowed to send out patrols. Maybe 2 or 3 man teams to scout or reinforce as they were needed. It also would have provided the SF with the ability to set ambushes.

Agreed, I just want to see this evolve a bit.


We had coms with the second base, they should be able to call reinforcements unless the line is cut ( i think it can be) meaning they either repair, or send a runner to get a squad.

We would have left some men to defend the scud, it could also allow the SF to draw men away, ambush, and attack the other scud now weakened.

Harlequin Wolf

The other consideration is ammo for the SF team in the long run. I think in future a good addition would be that every hour the SF team can have either an airstrike OR an ammo drop perhaps.

Spetzcong

We (scud team 1 or was it two, the hard one anyway) got to choose where to locate our scud at the start of the game, you can't really whinge at us for picking a good spot, it's mil sim.

Iraqi Commander: "Lets not put the scud up here, it'll be too hard for the enemy special forces to attack..."

I agree that the second scud team should have been allowed to take to the field and reinforce us (not that we were at any point in much need of reinforcing), it would have added an interesting dynamic to the game and perhaps made the special forces think twice about digging in at maximum range and hoping that we got bored and wandered off or something.

Alternatively setting a time limit on it say for example if the special forces attack a scud and it hasn't been taken after an hour and a half from first contact the iraqis launch the scud and it's too late. That way the SF team has to actually attack instead of just digging in.

Game 2 was great though, I was hit within about 2 mins and bled out coz our medic couldn't get out of the house to rescue me. A classic and well executed assault by the Dogs & Co. there, well played sirs.

defenderdude

+1 on above post
also,
Now that I've thawed out somewhat - have to say yesterday was an very enjoyable day. There are things we can change for the next one etc. but it's all a learning process...

What I love about it - is that it make us think about the event, our tactics, thoughts, movements and actions etc.

It reminds me of when I first started skirmishing - and the sheer buzz when you manage to pull off a simple manouver/repel an attack or just cave because you've been outsmarted... going over and over events in your head - long after they've occured, trying to figure out what you did wrong and how could you have prevented it from happening... trying to refine the events that lead to the one key manouver or happening which sets off a chain of events resulting in overall success or failure.

I'll remember yesterday for a long time to come - mostly because of the bitter cold (imagine what it's like for real:eek:), the great team spirit we had, our great medic (dont know his name), the new faces, airstrikes, the burgers, the thunderflashes:eek:, the coffee and the great laugh which helped when the cold began to freeze my left temporal lobe:)

Great day and I'm looking forward to many more.

P.K

should try that one at night, maybe when its not as cold

might make things a bit easier for the sf,

give them more cover to move in, etc

Stercus Accidit

Spetzcong wrote: »

We (scud team 1 or was it two, the hard one anyway) got to choose where to locate our scud at the start of the game, you can't really whinge at us for picking a good spot, it's mil sim.

Iraqi Commander: "Lets not put the scud up here, it'll be too hard for the enemy special forces to attack..."

I wasnt on the SF team, I'm not saying boo hoo it was hard.

I was on the second iraqi team, many of the lads were frustrated that the SF were taking so long, in that case, an absolute failure to achieve the objective, we should have been allowed out.
My only real problem on the day was the wait, we basically weren't playing, and a time limit on the SF, or the option to get into the action would have prevented that.

I hope this is seen as positive feedback, its very easy to see the lad voicing the complaint as some sort of moaner, but this was the view of the lads sat around waiting, and hopefully mentioning it, and discussing the possible solutions, we'll improve the game, and I think we all want that.
A time limit or reinforcement option would have pressured the SF team, and meant the second team would have entered engagement, and for a SF scenario, I think thats realistic.