Gulf war milsim game, march sunday 8/3/09

Rogue-Trooper

gerrowadat wrote: »

Cream of chicken actually. With croutons. Was lovely and warm up in that cabin and all.

LOL! You have just proved that The Hawks are all about 'style and no substance'. Yis hide in the cabin, only come out when it stops raining and then yis won't lie on the ground when you get hit for fear of getting your Multicam dirty. Is it true that your medic was actually handing out groundsheets and 'Wet Wipes' instead of bandages??!! Gucci me arse!!

Harlequin Wolf

OzCam wrote: »

Ah. Well in that case it's his fault for not being obvious enough. The responsibility lies on both players, not just one or the other. Richie, stick your hand up where everyone can see it next time. Then you can sit down again.

Its supposed to be milsim, in real life wounded soldiers don't leap up and shout "hey nice shot ye got me!!!" and then lie down on the ground.

If a guy doesn't realise he hit his target and wastes a load more ammo on the guy thats his mistake.

moggser

Rogue-Trooper wrote: »

LOL! You have just proved that The Hawks are all about 'style and no substance'. Yis hide in the cabin, only come out when it stops raining and then yis won't lie on the ground when you get hit for fear of getting your Multicam dirty. Is it true that your medic was actually handing out groundsheets and 'Wet Wipes' instead of bandages??!! Gucci me arse!!

as far as i saw was the medic was handing out slices of bread as the hydration bladders were filled with soup lol

any way the Hawk we had with us the DR Pepper and he was ok so they all aint that bad

sliabh

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Hmmm ... not sure about this. Being a medic is a fairly specialist role (likebeing an engineer or a signals operator). Most units would only have one or possibly two trained trauma experts capable of dealing with shrapnel wounds.

True, but the SF would probably have more/better people. It might have levelled the playing field a bit to give them 2 medics.

As it was on Sunday the Hawks put themselves at a disadvantage straight way when they decided to split their team and attack the scud from two directions. They only had one medic who had to leg it from team to team. Over at the quiet scud, when we saw the medic run right, we advised the guys at the second scud to press on the left.

Masada

sliabh wrote: »

True, but the SF would probably have more/better people. It might have levelled the playing field a bit to give them 2 medics.

As it was on Sunday the Hawks put themselves at a disadvantage straight way when they decided to split their team and attack the scud from two directions. They only had one medic who had to leg it from team to team. Over at the quiet scud, when we saw the medic run right, we advised the guys at the second scud to press on the left.

we got a lot closer to it than you did though, on both sides and we got about 3 kills in the process. far as i know your lads didnt kill any of us whenwe were defending it, and how did you advise them? the first thing we did was to cut your comms....

Rogue-Trooper

Lads, I think there's only one way to sort this out - I propose a re-match. We should play the same scenario but factor in some of the better/workable suggestions on this thread from the last 2 days.
With any luck the weather might be more 'middle eastern' next time too!

sliabh

Rogue-Trooper wrote: »

Lads, I think there's only one way to sort this out - I propose a re-match. We should play the same scenario but factor in some of the better/workable suggestions on this thread from the last 2 days.
With any luck the weather might be more 'middle eastern' next time too!

Works for me!

Masada

Rogue-Trooper wrote: »

Lads, I think there's only one way to sort this out - I propose a re-match. We should play the same scenario but factor in some of the better/workable suggestions on this thread from the last 2 days.
With any luck the weather might be more 'middle eastern' next time too!

Oh i dont dispute the fact that the scud 2 team won out and took 1 scud., well done to the lads there., im just curious as to how he communicated with the other team, was it smoke signals? telepathy? cos it certainly wasn't by the provided coms network.

conor-mr2

Id have no issues with a rematch and our proper team out. Im sure (hope) all the comments are in jest but guys you 're forgetting I snuck rite up to the scud 1 site without so much as a whistle from you guys and if Id had a flashbang (dunno how to use them yet) I could have taken out your scud.

And I reiterate again that we had a couple of youger guys on our team aswell who were sometimes a little trigger happy.


In relation to the comms.. yea it was re-established as later on I came across and had to break the line again. I am still wondering how it was reestablished coz it would have required the guys from the scud site to come out and repair. Maybe they did but I wasnt in a position to see them.

also re breaking up the teams.. I think that was the right thing to do. In fact I think two was too small. But numbers dictate such things. Three separate teams would have been better for SF to attack the difficult site.

Harlequin Wolf

Masada wrote: »

Oh i dont dispute the fact that the scud 2 team won out and took 1 scud., well done to the lads there., im just curious as to how he communicated with the other team, was it smoke signals? telepathy? cas it certainly wasn't by the provided coms network.

Listen, i was the guy on the comms in the first game and there was someone on the other end talkin back, so unless it was a ghost ye didn't cut jack s**t.

Secondly it took ye about an hour to navigate out of the cabin ye started in so ye couldn't have cut them that quickly:D

Harlequin Wolf

conor-mr2 wrote: »

Id have no issues with a rematch and our proper team out. Im sure (hope) all the comments are in jest but guys you 're forgetting I snuck rite up to the scud 1 site without so much as a whistle from you guys and if Id had a flashbang (dunno how to use them yet) I could have taken out your scud.

I hate to break it to ye but the reason ye got up to the base was because at that point we had all gone inside for want of action and couldn't have been bothered anymore.

cpb

Masada wrote: »

Oh i dont dispute the fact that the scud 2 team won out and took 1 scud., well done to the lads there., im just curious as to how he communicated with the other team, was it smoke signals? telepathy? cos it certainly wasn't by the provided coms network.

Paul was driving down the site in the landrover saw the comms disconnected and he reconnected it I think he though he disconnected it while driving:D

Saved us sending out a team to do it (which was allowed as per paul)

conor-mr2

Harlequin Wolf wrote: »

I hate to break it to ye but the reason ye got up to the base was because at that point we had all gone inside for want of action and couldn't have been bothered anymore.

Thats milsim for ya. Yas got bored. Lost concentration then suddenly your dead. Sounds pretty realistic to me.

Ah so Paul reattached it. I can guarantee that at the start we did indeed break comms. It was Richie who went out and did it. And I can guarantee that later I had to rebreak it again so now it is suddenyl a little clearer regarding things. Perhaps if the comms was disconnected as it should have been then our medic would not have been spotted and you guys would not have been able to communicate. Interesting how it changes the whole picture eh.

Harlequin Wolf

conor-mr2 wrote: »

Thats milsim for ya. Yas got bored. Lost concentration then suddenly your dead. Sounds pretty realistic to me.

True enough, but at that point we had heard some of the SF had walked off the field and gone home, we were debating wether to send someone up to find out if the game had been called or what.

Truth be told, on reflection i don't think there really is much to be changed about the scenario. Its certainly hard, but victory is possible. There was a lot of running around in the beginning that was rather pointless i believe.

i think the only major point of contention is the long term ammo problems for the SF team.

conor-mr2

I definately agree.

I certainly learnt lots from it and would really like to replay the whole thing again. It wouldnt bother me what team I was on. I really do agree and think it was winnable but as was mentioned, none of us really used the airstrikes as well as we should have.

Harlequin Wolf

The airstrike rules were pretty complex and we aren't used to having them in regular games, it will definitely take a while to get to grips with them.

Masada

Harlequin Wolf wrote: »

Listen, i was the guy on the comms in the first game and there was someone on the other end talkin back, so unless it was a ghost ye didn't cut jack s**t.

less of the attitude pal., this is a civilized thread.,
the comms were definitely cut.,

Hivemind187

sliabh wrote: »

True, but the SF would probably have more/better people. It might have levelled the playing field a bit to give them 2 medics.

Not so.

The SAS are known to use a standard four-man-patrol. Only one of those men would have extensive medical knowledge required to treat the massive trauma associated with a gun-shot or explosive shrapnel wound. It's not simple first aid as it can require some small surgical intervention to prevent loss of life.

Delta, secretive as they are, have a similar set up. Only one of their group is likely to be the "medic". Albeit in the SF a medic is as well trained as an EMT and in some cases an internship doctor.

The other members of the team are generally made up of engineers, signals operators, demolitions experts etc. all of which are complex specialities.

I get what you are saying about giving them a second medic but in truth I think it would be better/more fun to assign specific responsibilities to each unit member.

Medic: heals players.
Signals: calls airstrikes and relays data to TOC.
Engineer: handles demolition charges.

etc

This way it requires that key players be protected and makes the game a little tougher by introducing more angles and strategies to win from.

sliabh

Harlequin Wolf wrote: »

i think the only major point of contention is the long term ammo problems for the SF team.

Maybe 5 mags for the poorly equipped Iraqis, and 10 for the SF?

moggser

this thread should be remnamed the gulf war bitchsim thread
ffs will ya'll stop havin a bleeedin go at one another
" who souped this who attacked this who lost that why didn we play that and my flute is bigger then yours"

at the end of the day it was a great idea that might or might not of been entertaining pending on the person's own view but this a milsim as paul said its no ordinary game where ya might not see or shoot at some one for a hour or 3

so quit the jibber jabber and put idea's in to re working of it and stop bitching

sliabh

Hivemind187 wrote: »

I get what you are saying about giving them a second medic but in truth I think it would be better/more fun to assign specific responsibilities to each unit member.

Medic: heals players.
Signals: calls airstrikes and relays data to TOC.
Engineer: handles demolition charges.

etc

This way it requires that key players be protected and makes the game a little tougher by introducing more angles and strategies to win from.

That will make it a lot tougher! Especially considering the 60%+ casulties needed to take the one scud.

hrta

Every one, just needs to learn, how to use, airstrike's, and Grenades.


Here is how it should have been played, IDF Special Forces unit, splits in to two teams, each team to take up an over view of missile site, working with the other team push iraqi's in to a noose, with Grenades, to be taken out by airstrike's, as you had them every half hour, take the last few out with some rounds, plant your shaped charge, to the missile, and take them out, and be home in time for tea, job done.

hrta

And a few Machine gun's, are handy:D

And this was in the rules,

Medics
Every section / squad will have one player assigned as a section medic.
All medics will be assigned before the game and all medics will start the game with medical supplies.
To heal a player a medic must tie a bandage around the casualties arm.
Medics can NOT heal themselves.
Players can drag a casualty to cover before the medic arrives
A medic can move a casualty by simulated carry.
Simulated carrying involves two people either side of the casualty and pretending to carry them.
This MUST be done at a walking pace.
Only medics can apply the bandages.

Hivemind187

sliabh wrote: »

That will make it a lot tougher! Especially considering the 60%+ casulties needed to take the one scud.

Heh, well its not meant to be easy.

Taking the time to plan a proper assault and implement it carefully and you should be able to win in a situation where an equal but largely immobile force are protecting a specific point.

I understand your feelings about it being difficult but this isnt casual skirmishing, its meant to be on another level. Sometimes the odds are stacked very heavily one way or another. I agree that the scenario needs some tweaking I dont think hobbling one team is the answer.

Spetzcong

I'd love to give this another go. Lets face it, this was a difficult mission, yuz only got one try at being SF each (except for us). If the game gets played again, which I hope it will, we will all have learned from the mistakes of the last day and I garuntee that it'll play out differently.

If the Dogs had used airstrikes on us when we were defending the open scud, a hit on the building would have taken out 75% of our team + our medic, given how quickly they dispatched the defenders outside this would have left them with a full team and most of their ammo to assault the second scud, the game would have played out very differently indeed.

There's no point in even specuating how the iraqi team I was on would have fared as special forces but it is fair to say that none of the teams who had a go at the role on Sunday approached the objectives in an effective manner.

Next time it'll be very different.

Sod'o swords

it was a 34 round limit on the mags right?

I think in this instance the line on realism has to be drawn.

Yes real mags are around 30 rounds.

But in real life bullets can range to over 1000 yards, are accurate and don't get hugely effected by the wind to the point where they curl madly and have their range greatly reduced.

where as BB's have a range of around 30-40 yards(guesstimate), are not that accurate and effected greatly by the wind.

So really, it actually contradicts the realism aspect.

Filling a mid cap is not going to result in the box/C mag madness that everyone detests.

It would also solve the extra ammo problem.

Harlequin Wolf

Sod'o swords wrote: »

it was a 34 round limit on the mags right?

I think in this instance the line on realism has to be drawn.

Yes real mags are around 30 rounds.

But in real life bullets can range to over 1000 yards, are accurate and don't get hugely effected by the wind to the point where they curl madly and have their range greatly reduced.

Yes but in airsoft engagements take place at extremely close range, as opposed to real life where the average engagement range is 200-300 meters.

Also airsoft guns have about 60-70 foot range i'd say...........depending on quality.

Hivemind187

Sod'o swords wrote: »

it was a 34 round limit on the mags right?

30 with a small allowance for the follower in Stanags, 45 in some AK mags (due to the RPK extended mag).

Sod'o swords wrote: »

But in real life bullets can range to over 1000 yards, are accurate and don't get hugely effected by the wind to the point where they curl madly and have their range greatly reduced.

Actually thats not true.

5.56 NATO has a range of about 1000 meters but is accurate from an M16 to only about 500m giving you a useful engagement range of around 300m.

7.62 NATO will cover the bones of a mile and a half and still be potentially lethal. However, its heavier, bulkier and more difficult to use in fully automatic. Kalashnikovs (and I dont want to start a barney about this) utilising the 7.62 round have increased stopping power but are designed as a disposable close/medium range weapon intended to be used in short bursts from multiple squadies.

All bullets are affected by wind to some degree (hence windage/elevation controls). Most infantry rifles are not accurised and tend to be set up for medium range engagements out to 300m. Out beyond this most battle rifles and infantry rifles begin to exhibit peculiarities based on the internal variations in assembly.

Sod'o swords wrote: »

where as BB's have a range of around 30-40 yards(guesstimate), are not that accurate and effected greatly by the wind.

Well ... there is no excuse for lousy shooting discipline. Sorry.

Sod'o swords wrote: »

So really, it actually contradicts the realism aspect.

So does going home for a bath and a nice dinner afterwards. We are trying to make things as realistic as possible with the tools we have.

Sod'o swords wrote: »

Filling a mid cap is not going to result in the box/C mag madness that everyone detests.

Is the number of rounds you can fill a mid cap with universal? Last I checked there were different capacities available.

Sod'o swords wrote: »

It would also solve the extra ammo problem.

Erm ... again, I still don't see why this is a "problem". A lot of this has to do with trigger control i.e. not holding down the trigger to hose your target. If people used fewer rounds they would have more rounds for their next engagement.

Sod'o swords

But still at close range the bb's are slow enough for you too see and duck out of range, still greatly effected by the wind and not very accurate.

I know normal rounds are only effective to half the distances i quoted, but still you see what i'm trying, poorly, to say.

Most if not all of us were on semi auto except Tommy, because semi didn't work on his gun.
We weren't just spraying because we like to sound of high voltage batteries.

Also the wind had a huuuuuuuuuge effect on sunday, in some places it was hard to stand, so what a .2g bb could do against it you can only guess.

Hivemind187

Sod'o swords wrote: »

But still at close range the bb's are slow enough for you too see and duck out of range, still greatly effected by the wind and not very accurate.

30-40 yards is around 70 feet, more i think.

a yard is three feet isnt it?

and again, shooting skill makes up for a lot of these shortcomings with the BB round.

What you appear to be saying is that you werent happy with the ammo limits, you wanted more. How many mags did you have?