Guns in the home ????

Mrs OBumble

JohnCleary wrote: »

Erm, no.

If she had a gun, but she made the story up, well, eh, the criminal wouldn't have been there in the first place, hence wouldn't have been shot hence wouldn't be dead

Zing :pac:

Erm some more .. no again.

Scenario: girlfriend is feeling a bit naughty/frustrated/drunk/whatever and fools around with some other lad. Things happen between them, to which she's a consenting party at the time. Then boyfriend comes home with flowers to patch everything up. Or maybe he just finds out later. Either way, what are the chances that she'll lie.

I'd like to think that all women are upright citizens and wouldn't do such a thing, but am afraid there are some out there who don't make me proud to be female.

Lockstep

Has anyone here who adovocates guns ever even fired one?

I have with the RDF, and by God the thought of it means I never, ever want one anywhere in my home. Firing guns is a strange experience.
Guns are extremely dangerous weapons and I would never let one be kept in my house.

i've fired a rifle at targets a few times when i was younger, like 15 with a few friends.. but i certainly don't advocate them. no doubt that fatalities would rise with no benefit whatsoever.

i duno, i'd nearly go as far as to say that licenses should be stopped and the culture let die out.. like why do we need them? they just get robbed as happened recently by a gang

ScumLord

I couldn't be let have a gun, I own a few airsoft guns and had to take them out of the house after drunken shenanigans.

I can't imagine the amount of serious shootings there'd be in this country if we had easy access to guns. The fact is the Americans got all their bad habits from us.

galwayrush

I have various weapons in my house, if i think any of my family, or possessions are in danger, i will use them.:mad:

Robbo

I augment my internet tough guy persona by keeping various weapons in the house to indulge my paranoid fantasies.

Lynskey

They're right-Guns dont kill people, bullets do:)

Also, most people ask why would they need a gun license when it's only for use around the home:p

biko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdJGcrUk2eE

WooPeeA

Webbs wrote: »

So think about it from an offenders point of view. If they think that there is a likelihood that there will be a gun in the house/premises then they will make sure they are carrying a gun 'just in case', this tit for tat escalation just doesnt work, where does it end? It will end up with moving from shotguns to semi automatic to automatic weapons just like the US

Alright, but in confrontation face-to-face weaker people and women have no chance to survive. If they had a gun it would be more likely fifty-fifty.

By the way, I'm not for giving a gun to everyone, I'm for giving it to people who passed medical and psychological tests and have no criminal past.

Teasers, gases and guns that only sounds like a shot should be available for everyone just like in every other country.

WooPeeA

JustMary wrote: »

Also, I'd hazard guess that your average householder is less skilled with pretty much any weapon (gun, knife, whatever) than your average criminal. Especially the ones who've been to criminal-university (aka prison), so had lots of free time to pick up handy tips.

It's very easy to use a gun. You don't have to be skilled, just few basic rules that can be thought in 15 minutes. Of course 15 minutes won't make you perfect shooter but it's enough to protect yourself in my opinion.

Keeping a loaded gun in an accessible place in a house with children or anyone with a mental illness (1 in 4 at some time in their lives) or intellectual disability would cause far more injuries than crime does.

I know many people who carry gun in the house and no one has been shot dead by gun itself. Guns don't shoot itself with no reason, even if you drop it. It happened in the old guns decades ago. The new ones like Glock don't even have any blockades that were essential 20-30 years ago because they are simply safe.

inisboffin

WooPeeA wrote: »

Alright, but in confrontation face-to-face weaker people and women have no chance to survive. If they had a gun it would be more likely fifty-fifty.

:rolleyes:

I'd like you to tell that face to face with my rugby playing neighbour, she'd think differently I warrant!:p

Again guns are not stored loaded in houses with kids, or shouldn't be.
Shotguns are unwieldy - you could fight off an attacker better than fumbling for pellets and THEN gambling some more
Attacks often use the element of surprise (no time to go in, find the pellets, load the shotgun, while rapist number one makes a martini)
If you've a gun, you'd better know how to use it.

WooPeeA

inisboffin wrote: »

Attacks often use the element of surprise (no time to go in, find the pellets, load the shotgun, while rapist number one makes a martini)
If you've a gun, you'd better know how to use it.

Indeed. That's why "you can call the gardai" or "trust your police" explanations had been probably said for the first time by some dumb.

Right to protect yourself and your family is one of the basic rights of free society. I don't want to accord it to the guns, but at least some pepper spray which could give you some minutes to run away.

Unfortunately in Ireland our right to survive during the attack depends on the mood of our offender.

inisboffin

WooPeeA wrote: »

Right to protect yourself and your family is one of the basic rights of free society. I don't want to accord it to the guns, but at least some pepper spray which could give you some minutes to run away..

I agree, I just personally feel that a 'gun culture' will make things worse not better.
I have fired a gun, and it is so scary how easy it is to use once in your hand.
In the heat of the moment (for assailant or victim) the adrenalin is flowing, and it is far easier to squeeze a finger and kill than to do more physically with a weapon. Not saying I wouldn't blow someone away if I walked in on my family being attacked, I probably would! That's what I mean though. It's way easier to kill with a gun.

Webbs

WooPeeA wrote: »

Alright, but in confrontation face-to-face weaker people and women have no chance to survive. If they had a gun it would be more likely fifty-fifty.

By the way, I'm not for giving a gun to everyone, I'm for giving it to people who passed medical and psychological tests and have no criminal past.

Teasers, gases and guns that only sounds like a shot should be available for everyone just like in every other country.

Out of interest how many people in Ireland are killed or badly injured by offenders that are unknown to the victim in a year?
If guns were readily available I would be willing to bet my house that that number would rise a lot as would accidental deaths.
As for having Tasers etc, what other countries have them? I know they are illegal in the UK along with mace etc.

Dyr

inisboffin wrote: »

I have fired a gun, and it is so scary how easy it is to use once in your hand.
In the heat of the moment (for assailant or victim) the adrenalin is flowing,

Most research i've seen would indicate that guns are quite hard to use sucessfully in the heat of the moment when the adrenaline is flowing

masonman

galwayrush wrote: »

I have various weapons in my house, if i think any of my family, or possessions are in danger, i will use them.:mad:

Could Paranoia be classed as a weapon?

Fighting Irish

Das Kitty wrote: »

There's a bloody Judicial system in this country for a reason you know.

Who's to say that yer wan wasn't just making it up? Not saying she is but without going through the proper channels of the law it's quite possible yer man was beaten to a bloody pulp for no reason, and in your scenario, he'd be dead.

There is no evidence that having a gun in the house would lessen crimes committed but there's plenty of evidence saying that there's a greater chance a family member will be killed by the bloody thing.

I seriously don't understand how people still assign credence to the notion of the lynch mob.

I use to think the way you do, but now i'm all for people owning guns to protect themselves at home. If a family member shoots themselves then its their fooking problem, as i've said in another thread we need to protect ourselves and stop protecting the stupid

inisboffin

Bambi wrote: »

Most research i've seen would indicate that guns are quite hard to use sucessfully in the heat of the moment when the adrenaline is flowing

What I meant is that once a gun is in your hand, it is easier to *kill* with it than with another weapon, whether accidentally or not.
I agree that adrenalin causes the senses to overload, so it depends what you mean by 'successfully' I suppose.

Dyr

I beleive that in the states research has shown that knives are more likely cause fatalities than guns, so it depends on what you mean by *easier*

It's probably easier to pull a trigger than to stab someone though, from a mental/moral viewpoint.

masonman

Bambi wrote: »

I beleive that in the states research has shown that knives are more likely cause fatalities than guns

Can you quote the source of this research? not trying to back you into a corner, just interested

cL0h

WooPeeA wrote: »

You forgot to mention that there's less crimes with use of knife in the places that give you the right to carry a gun.

It's about mentality. We, Europeans are civilized people. Look at Finland (32% have a gun) or Switzerland where gun owning is easy and popular and then look at the crime rates there.

Your argument doesn't work to me.

And your argument is farcical. You are comparing Ireland to Switzerland or Finland in terms of mentality. They are two of the most law abiding nations in the world. In either of those countries people will not cross the road without a green man.
How about Ireland doubles their tax rates, puts three times as many cops on the street and starts reporting their neighbours for throwing cigarette butts on the street. Just like in Switzerland and Finland.

inisboffin

Bambi wrote: »

I beleive that in the states research has shown that knives are more likely cause fatalities than guns, so it depends on what you mean by *easier*

It's probably easier to pull a trigger than to stab someone though, from a mental/moral viewpoint.

Yeah, I would love to see a source, and not to be niggly either. I lived in the States for 10 years, and really read the opposite .
Then again, it depends who is paying for the statistical analyses;)

WooPeeA

Webbs wrote: »

As for having Tasers etc, what other countries have them? I know they are illegal in the UK along with mace etc.

Well, in Poland you can easily buy them in supermarkets, along with other mentioned by me "weapons" (also OC, PAVA, CS or CN gases and pistols loaded with those gases, used by police and army). Probably the most liberal country in Europe.

I bought few pepper gases in Germany as well, you can be even under 18 to buy them there.

My friend bought a taser in Israel so as I suppose they are legal there as well. I'm sure pepper gas is legal there.

OC gas is consideret as "self-defense weapon" with no license requirement also in Italy.

In Latvia the only requrement to buy a gas is to be over 16.

Slovakia allows you to buy papper gas, pepper and tear pistol as long as you're over 18.

In Spain approved pepper spray made with 5% CS.

hedgeh0g

A great home defence is a fire extinguisher. It keeps distance between you and the attacker and you are using appropriate force.
(If you slipped, it could possible crush a few of their bones as well)

If caught with pepper spray you are in serious trouble, its a gas. A good alternative is fly spray, although I don’t know if you can get a portable can.
Im picturing a market for a miniature fire extinguisher!

I believe an intruder deserves anything that happens, but there is no point being sued for going outside the law. Hopefully the law will change in favour of homeowners.

Webbs

WooPeeA wrote: »

Well, in Poland you can easily buy them in supermarkets, along with other mentioned by me "weapons" (also OC, PAVA, CS or CN gases and pistols loaded with those gases, used by police and army). Probably the most liberal country in Europe.
.

Maybe thats why Poland has the 20th highest per capita murder rate in the world, (Ireland is 55th and UK 46) (United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems)

Wompa1

Got a problem?..I got a problem solver and his name is revolver

WooPeeA

Webbs wrote: »

Maybe thats why Poland has the 20th highest per capita murder rate in the world, (Ireland is 55th and UK 46) (United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems)

It's very hard to kill with those weapons.

Webbs

WooPeeA wrote: »

It's very hard to kill with those weapons.

But they are indicative of an escalation in weapons that are carried, therefore people will carry weapons to counter these eg guns hence higher murder.

Krieg

We have weapons in the house, but I was considering of purchasing a baseball bat. Id much prefer to use that if someone came into the house. Whether or not you are succesful in defending your home from an intruder, while using a shotgun, you are going to get into a lot of trouble. If you go to the guards and say you want a shotgun for home defence, they are not going to give it to you.

The family were discussing this recently, due to the number of armed raids on houses in recent months and especially since our neighbours got robbed on xmas eve. We are looking into ways of making entry to the house more secure (Extra bolts on the doors, alarm the windows etc.), seems like the best option. Problem is, If someone rings your doorbell, your reaction is to answer the door without thinking of looking out

biko

You could put an eye hole in the door and/or have a flood light activate as someone walk towards door.
Outdoor cameras are cheap or just get a "CC TV" sign.
For those not inclined to own a dog, rig up a tape of a barking dog to a motion sensor. When someone prowls on your property, the sound of a vicious dog barking will generally deter further problems. A few bones/toys scattered about the yard confirms the presence of a large dog.
Will stop the intruder BEFORE they enter the house.

Install a panic button somewhere that automatically notifies neighbours/Gardai.