Alcohol and health

worstcase

Although I do not live in Ireland, I grew up with lots of people who came from there. Over the years I became astounded at just how attached the Irish were to alcohol and, over time, became convinced that there was something genetic about the connexion (it's the same for the Russians, Native Americans, and a few other ethnic groups).

I have a drink now and then, but the stuff really doesn't do much for me. Maybe, because of some experiences I've had over my lifetime I've had to focus more on making a living and focusing on keeping my life together in a world that is increasingly becoming smaller, more complicated, and even more competitive. I've also had the opportunity to spend a lot of time around Asians, and have been exposed to lots of Asian culture. Within these ethnic groups there is not much craving for alcohol or drugs. As is usual, people go out and have a drink or two now and then, but there's no compulsion to binge-drink.

In addition to the above, and something I never see discussed in an Irish setting, is the consequences of long term heavy drinking on the brain. From the latest news stories about drinking alcohol and brain shrinkage (i.e. possible loss of reserve brain capacity), to long-term permanent cognitive impairment due to alcohol abuse, how do the Irish expect to cope in a world that requires the ever increasing use of brain power to keep and hold good jobs?

And, it may be the case that the Irish, the Russians, and other northern European ethnic groups carry genes that produce an increased susceptibility to various forms of addiction (alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, and etc). Is anyone familiar out there with the relation between the levels of neurotransmitters, the number of neurotransmitter receptor sites and addiction, depression and etc?

BTW - There apparently is a statistical correlation between alcoholism and depression.

Just some thoughts....

cantdecide

worstcase wrote: »

...From the latest news stories about drinking alcohol and brain shrinkage (i.e. possible loss of reserve brain capacity), to long-term permanent cognitive impairment due to alcohol abuse, how do the Irish expect to cope in a world that requires the ever increasing use of brain power to keep and hold good jobs....

By this logic, your garden variety alcoholic should not have the capacity to tie his shoelaces and the fact that we pride ourselves on our knowledge economy must be a drunken lamentation...

worstcase

Let me clarify my point a bit.

The statement regarding the economy applies to any population where there is a significant problem with addiction. And my bringing it up is nothing new, this problem is being reported all over the Irish press almost daily and is constantly cropping up in Irish chat rooms and boards (see all the messages above).

Regarding cognitive functioning, It's not that people won't be able to tie their shoes anymore, but that higher level cognitive functioning (i.e mathematical reasoning, verbal reasoning, and reasoning in general) will suffer under the constant onslaught of the brain being exposed to various drugs and/or alcohol. This finding is nothing new, and has been openly researched and discussed in the academic community for over thirty years or more.

It may be the case that the 20% or so of Irish people who don't drink at all and the other 30 to 70+ percent that only drink in moderation are the ones who are pulling the Irish economy forward and sustaining it. My point is that any population with significant drug or alcohol problems is most likely going to hit its point of diminishing returns earlier, and before a population that doesn't have this problem. I for one emphatically don't want to see this happen to Ireland.

Ultimately, why would someone want to destroy their brain (read cognitive capacity) when he or she doesn't have to? If long-term alcohol and drug abuse did not produce this type of brain damage, then the only thing we'd need to discuss is how to keep people from driving while under the influence and etc.

Dave!

I split off a few posts from the Cork thread... feel free to continue the discussion here!

roverm

to be honest i think your looking far too much into it and you are seeing the worse case possible. like in fairness - the whole thing about an ever expanding world and the need for jobs!! Irish are among the most educated in the world so i dont get where your coming from with that point.
i think its just the culture here in ireland and britain, if you want to enjoy yourself you go out with the lads for a few pints unlike france where they would go for a meal and afew glasses of wine.
on another point i actually work in a bar, and i see asians in their a lot drinking crazy amounts of drink (more than us) which proves its how culture influences people.

Breezer

worstcase wrote: »

Is anyone familiar out there with the relation between the levels of neurotransmitters, the number of neurotransmitter receptor sites and addiction, depression and etc?

I'm by no means an expert, but what you're looking for is information on 'the monoamine theory of depression.' AFAIK this is still the best theory we have, although there's a number of huge holes in it.

BTW - There apparently is a statistical correlation between alcoholism and depression.

There is. It's one of many well-recognised phychological consequences of long-term alcohol abuse.

I think you're being a bit extreme saying that drinking is going to bring down the economy. As you've said, only a very small percentage of drinkers become dependent on alcohol. This also takes time to happen. Alcoholism and binge drinking are a big drain on our health service, as well as having a huge effect on families and people's lives, but they're not going to collapse the economy through us all being zombies at work.

estar

my depression mental confusion, dark thoughts and angst seriously reduced to the point where i am now positively cheery, never have dark thoughts, and am a hive of organisation and energy.

add alcohol to that mix and you totally dilute me. it has a knock on effect over my whole life i cant really explain. my general drive definitely is effected if i drink alcohol regularly.

most of my family and friends dont drink to excess. most of my work colleagues dont drink to excess. any successful people that take their work seriously of which there are many, dont drink to excess, and stay successful over a sustained period of time.

there is a cultural thing about drinking here, but it doesnt permeate all levels of society. the irish prize materal stability above alcohol mostly.

its all about what family you are born into here. we teach our children how to behave around drink. for me, drunkeness is distasteful and a good parent doesnt drink in front of their children or spend their money on alcohol. because thats the way i was raised. family time was spent around the table, or teapot. being drunk was being a failure, and being shameful. i think thats a large part of why i cant deal with it myself.

some other people are taught to drink in their families, and sit around and have drinks with their families. they all go to the pub. they dont necessarily get that drunk, drink every night, or have thier lives fall apart because of this.

we cant blame our cultural heritage for our personal choices however.

this is just blatant stereotyping. the irish built most of america, canada, and a lot of australia along with the chinese. masses of us or descendants of us have risen to success all around the globe, on boards of companies, in universities, in major charities.

we got carried away with the celtic tiger and the going out spending our money on ridiculous cocktails that we then vomited up later in the street.

however there is nothing the irish like more than success. we have an incredible will to succeed as a nation, and have had a massive effect on the globe considering our relative size.

so take your eyes off the statistics and look at the realities. we are respected all over the world for two things. yes, our love of a good time, drunk or sober. and two, our ability to put the heads down and work like savages when we need to.

estar

the chinese might not drink. but by god do they love to gamble.

Dagon

estar wrote: »

my depression mental confusion, dark thoughts and angst seriously reduced to the point where i am now positively cheery, never have dark thoughts, and am a hive of organisation and energy.

add alcohol to that mix and you totally dilute me. it has a knock on effect over my whole life i cant really explain. my general drive definitely is effected if i drink alcohol regularly.

That's really interesting, because I've had a similar experience after I stopped drinking. It's easier to find a more peaceful, tranquil state of mind. My mind seems less corrupted by negative thinking or paranoia. Makes you wonder what would happen if the whole nation stopped drinking?

cantdecide

It's great when you can reclaim Monday as a legitimate day of the week. I don't dislike Mondays at all:D

luckylucky

estar wrote: »

we cant blame our cultural heritage for our personal choices however.

Nope, but it doesn't f'in help