Dublin bus to strike on the day of Ireland vs England rugby

gandalf

grahamo wrote: »

So basically what your saying is that seeing as the lads in Dell & Waterford Crystal were made redundant its perfectly all right to turf a load of Dublin Bus Drivers onto the dole? Its not OK for any of them to lose their jobs while the bosses of these companies and the rich in this country lose nothing!

Oh please I'd question whether any of the people spouting this class warrior rubbish actually have worked for any period of time in the real world.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A JOB FOR LIFE ANYMORE.

People are entitled under the constitution to union membership whether the 'Smash the union' brigade like it or not. The only rot I can see is in Corporate Ireland and the Self serving government

One the unions should not be entitled to put the country on its knees like it has in the past with strikes in vital services. I count public transport as a service vital to the business of the state and I think it is reasonable to ensure it is available as scheduled.

Two there is rot everywhere, in the private sector it is normally sorted out via natural attrition. If you are not working the company will normally identify this and take action. If the company is not viable it goes out of business. However in the Public Sector and the Government (I agree with you on this point) there seems to be extreme reluctance to take responsibility and then take action when there are problems.

johnp23

I am totally against this strike as you see everytime goverment bodies lay people off the Unions jump on there big high horses. The only reason they do anything is so they dont lose there cushy jobs because there will be a cut in dues. I wish Unions where disbanded all together they dont help anyone just cause more problems than there worth. We have to be fair here Dublin Bus has never been a good service and never will be the only way Dublin Bus will run is as a totally private company thats not bank rolled by the goverment then maybe the people of Dublin and else where will get the service they need.

Daroxtar

If nobody is working anymore then nobody will be using the busses so dublin bus/bus eireann are probably right to cancel some of the routes. Its a bit like waterford crystal, if nobody is buying it then why keep making it? sorry to everyone who lost/ is losing jobs, i've lost my own as a carpenter and its just the same thing- supply and demand.
One of the best businesses to be in years ago was to be a blacksmith, every little village needed one, it was absolute necessity. Times and needs changed and now you dont need one at all. The strikers need to get a grip and look for different employment or look at re-training.

Serenity Now!

FTA69 wrote: »

George Orwell who fought for the Marxist POUM in the Spanish Civil War? Why would he be laughing considering he was a convinced socialist himself?

Because he saw the duplicity in socialism and where/why it usually failed.

FTA69 wrote: »

I'm not a "class warrior" by any means, rather I made a quip á la Ross O'Carroll Kelly and you went off whinging about it

No, of course not. You just posted some generalistic bilge about rugby union fans being upper-middle class (wannabe)snobs instead. I'm not whingeing about it. I'm laughing at it.

FTA69 wrote: »

As for "the money isn't there" arguments, fair enough. But people might want to start asking why "the money isn't there" and who is to blame, who still has "the money" etc before targetting the likes of bus drivers and nurses.

Stop pitting the nurses in the same frame as these bus drivers. Wholly different situation altogether. Point me out an unneccesary hospital or clinic and I'll think otherwise. Nurses are working because they are required. Bus drivers are being let go because they are not required and no strike will make it otherwise. Dublin Bus's responsibility is towards a transport system. Not provision of jobs ffs.

Erin Go Brath

We dont need half the politicans we have anyway thats for sure. Lets start the cull there before attacking essential services that we actually need.

Noopti

Paddy Samurai wrote: »

Tally ho! old bean.Quite right!.Damn peasants cluttering up the streets and exercising their right to protest. I say Ooofy pass me another sherry ,and lets watch some rugger What!.

Have to actually got a constructive argument in favour of the strikes?

Dannyboy83

gandalf wrote: »

bus drivers - Extremely inefficient and providing a bad service and want to keep the status quo - the general public lose out again.

taxi drivers - Protesting because after years of gouging the masses they have to compete in an open market.

nurses - Actually I don't begrudge them as the HSE is a complete and utter mess and the funds that should be going to the front line are caught up in a bloated inefficient middle manage fat layer. Time to put it on a diet.

doctors - apart from Junior Doctors they are overpaid and over valued

gardai - What are they protesting about the fact they don't get as much lunch money as they used to at Dublin Airport for example :rolleyes:

The one thing I would say is it is time to remove the boards of most of these semi-state organisations and replace the political appointees with actual experienced business people and bring them in line with the 21st Century. The board of CIE/Dublin Bus would be one of the first in line.

I don't live in Dublin, so cannot agree or disagree about Dublin bus.
On the bright side, at least there are buses in Dublin, unlike most of the rest of the country.

Regardless, no matter how bad they are, there is a difference between being reformed and being made 'expendable/accountable' for other people's mistakes.

I'm support reform.
I'm don't support the current and very different mess.

Perhaps if they had combined a reform plan with all the other stuff, it would have been a bit more digestable.

Anyway tho, good post.

mikemac

Just jumping in here and maybe it's been mentioned already

Why don't they run the bus service but refuse to collect fares if they wish to protest?
Bus Eireann have definitly done this in the past, I'm not sure about Dublin Bus.

Just throwing it out there, there is already a precedent

the_syco

johnp23 wrote: »

We have to be fair here Dublin Bus has never been a good service and never will be the only way Dublin Bus will run is as a totally private company thats not bank rolled by the goverment then maybe the people of Dublin and else where will get the service they need.

I'd say 60% of the routers would be cut the moment DB went private.

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

We dont need half the politicans we have anyway thats for sure. Lets start the cull there before attacking essential services that we actually need.

Agreed. Lets start with anyone who had any links to bribary, terrorists, and/or general badness... oh, wait, that's all of them :rolleyes:

johnp23

Yes 60% would be cut but also new routes where more people have access would be created a private company would be trying to generate revenue so there going to try and create routes that benfit a higher percentage of bus users more(More users more revenue). Also it means the goverment has more money to spend as this company would be paying tax to the goverment and the goverment would not be paying out huge sums of money to keep the company afloat. I think all goverment agencies except the Garda and Army should be run by private company's. The goverment in this country has a tendancy to keep throwing money at a losing horse its about time they grew a set and owned up to there mistakes an sell off all public sector company's.

OhNoYouDidn't

Serenity Now! wrote: »

No they're not!
If they're not demanding that they be kept on, they'll be demanding a bigger payout.
How this improves the bus service is indeed a tricky one to pick :eek:
Somehow the bus service owes them a job even though a job might not be viable.

All the information fromt he drivers I've read has been that they are opposed to cuts. I'm sure you can source your claims that its about payoffs.

Serenity Now! wrote: »

The comments from the self-perceived class warriors/deludes in this thread are funny though. I'm sure Orwell is laughing his head off somewhere.

At least the "self-perceived class warriors" are doing it out of self preservation and a desire to retain public services. What about the "self-perceived class warriors" on the right who are backing the boss class against their own interests. At least the left is coherent on this.

OhNoYouDidn't

johnp23 wrote: »

Yes 60% would be cut but also new routes where more people have access would be created a private company would be trying to generate revenue so there going to try and create routes that benfit a higher percentage of bus users more(More users more revenue). Also it means the goverment has more money to spend as this company would be paying tax to the goverment and the goverment would not be paying out huge sums of money to keep the company afloat. I think all goverment agencies except the Garda and Army should be run by private company's. The goverment in this country has a tendancy to keep throwing money at a losing horse its about time they grew a set and owned up to there mistakes an sell off all public sector company's.

The last 6 months have proven your neo-liberal ideology a total failure.

You had your chance, it has been a disaster. Please leave the stage.

The Corinthian

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

The last 6 months have proven your neo-liberal ideology a total failure.

You had your chance, it has been a disaster. Please leave the stage.

Don't hold your breath, after all people have been saying the same thing to socialists since 1989 and they still haven't gotten the message.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

grahamo wrote: »

Oh! Thats ok then. As long as its not personal. :rolleyes:

I think they will have a lot of support in Dublin. Maybe the Dublin 4 people and a few self employed 'I'm all right Jack' types may be a bit put out but the ordinary dub will be behind them

What are you on about? (The ordinary Dub) Is that a stereotype?
I'm a Dub but to alot of people the "ordinary Dub" (as a stereotype)
is either on social welfare for no good reason or has a job but doesn't want to work because they have a closer affinity with their union than their employer. Where do these so called ordinary Dubs think the money to run services comes from? Unions are bad news right now. Just look a SR Tecnics. Not much they could do there. This is an example of companies saying enough is enough, we don't need the hassle (from unions) lets just close. And who's fault is that?

johnp23

I think your incorrect there the reason things have failed is because regulators in this country and plenty of others didnt do there job they let the banks get away with Dubious loan decsions across the world and let the fat cats reap the rewards if i rememeber rightly certain fat cats in state run companys got caught doing exactly the same so you cant really say that my ideology is incorrect when private and public both do it. You only have to look back at the past and the tribunals to see that fat cat sydrome was created by goverment minsiters getting payments to lobby for big deveolpers. At the end of the day the Irish goverment along with every other goverment in the world run in the same circle as the fat cats of the private world.

Amalgam

Of course, there's nothing like a union that wants to see no changes at all, ever.

Like a cancer, kill the host.

FTA69 wrote: »

Boo hoo. "I mean loike, the goys won't get to watch the rugby in Croker. Sack the lot of them roysh".

Because that's the priority isn't it, not peoples' jobs or lives or anything like that. :rolleyes:

Serenity Now!

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

All the information fromt he drivers I've read has been that they are opposed to cuts. I'm sure you can source your claims that its about payoffs

I didn't claim it as fact. I said that if they weren't demanding that they be kept on, they'd be demanding a better severance ie. it has F**K ALL to do with their wanting to improve the transport system.
Simple really...

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

At least the "self-perceived class warriors" are doing it out of self preservation and a desire to retain public services

A desire to continue (badly) running a public transport as it has been run to this very day? Like I said, Dublin Bus is there to provide a transport service. Not employment

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

What about the "self-perceived class warriors" on the right who are backing the boss class against their own interests. At least the left is coherent on this.

Thats the problem there, right away. Its left vs right or working v middle class to you, isn't it? I answered on this in reference to some gobdaw alluding that anyone following rugby union was a snob which, if they had any savvy whatsoever, is complete and utter tosh. After that I summised that if they weren't such a wally about this, then they might find some more support on the issue. As it happens, they didn't. Haven't seen 'I'm All Right, Jack', have you? :rolleyes:

grahamo

gandalf wrote: »

Oh please I'd question whether any of the people spouting this class warrior rubbish actually have worked for any period of time in the real world..

I've been in the workforce 26 years. I've done everything from working on building sites, factories through to prototyping in the engineering sector. I've worked in the private and public sector so I've a little more life experience than most posters on here.

gandalf wrote: »

One the unions should not be entitled to put the country on its knees like it has in the past with strikes in vital services. I count public transport as a service vital to the business of the state and I think it is reasonable to ensure it is available as scheduled.

When are people going to wake up. The Unions haven't brought the country to its knees, Corporate Ireland has. The fat cats carry on as normal with their priveleged lives after they completely f***ed it up for the rest of us while the poor lose their only source of income, their jobs! At the same time they are laughing at us while we bicker pettily with each other.
I think those workers have been left no option but to strike. I hope it ends up with the Minister for Transport out on his ear (Mind You he'll probably get a massive payout that would be enough to keep 10 Bus Drivers in work for a couple of years, Funny how they can find the money for Golden Handshakes easily enough!)

ixoy

grahamo wrote: »

When are people going to wake up. The Unions haven't brought the country to its knees, Corporate Ireland has.

*Sigh* Even if that is true to a degree, how does that solve the core fact that CIE are running major losses? How do we fix these losses without reform? And how does a strike bring that reform about so that we can get the best public service from our buses with the funding we have?

OhNoYouDidn't

ixoy wrote: »

*Sigh* Even if that is true to a degree, how does that solve the core fact that CIE are running major losses? How do we fix these losses without reform? And how does a strike bring that reform about so that we can get the best public service from our buses with the funding we have?

Dublin Bus runs at a profit. Has done for nearly 20 years.

gandalf

grahamo wrote: »

I've been in the workforce 26 years. I've done everything from working on building sites, factories through to prototyping in the engineering sector. I've worked in the private and public sector so I've a little more life experience than most posters on here.

Congrats I've only been in the workforce 18 years fulltime (plus 6 years part time when I was in 2nd and 3rd level as well) so obviously your life experience dwarfs mine

When are people going to wake up. The Unions haven't brought the country to its knees, Corporate Ireland has. The fat cats carry on as normal with their priveleged lives after they completely f***ed it up for the rest of us while the poor lose their only source of income, their jobs! At the same time they are laughing at us while we bicker pettily with each other.
I think those workers have been left no option but to strike. I hope it ends up with the Minister for Transport out on his ear (Mind You he'll probably get a massive payout that would be enough to keep 10 Bus Drivers in work for a couple of years, Funny how they can find the money for Golden Handshakes easily enough!)

Sorry but from my experience with unions I think I am spot on about their role in the rot that has set in, yes others are responsible as well but as usual in Ireland people are not prepared to take responsibility and to be realistic. The current situation demands drastic action, and unfortunately there is going to be a lot of pain for all of us. People will lose jobs, spouting class war sound bites will get us all no where.

djpbarry

johnp23 wrote: »

I think all goverment agencies except the Garda and Army should be run by private company's.

Indeed; privatisation is the way forward. There are absolutely no downsides whatsoever. So let’s hand the running of the country over to the board of everyone’s favourite private institution, Anglo Irish Bank, and watch as corruption and incompetence are consigned to the annals of history…

Oh, wait now…

djpbarry

grahamo wrote: »

When are people going to wake up. The Unions haven't brought the country to its knees, Corporate Ireland has.

:rolleyes: Yeah, everything is somebody else’s fault. We’re not responsible for keeping our finances in order. Blah, blah, blah…

Unless people starting taking some responsibility for the current state of affairs, rather than pointing the finger at everyone and anyone, this country is going down the tube, fast. You think this country has been brought to its knees? Oh, we’ve a long way down to go yet…

gandalf

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Dublin Bus runs at a profit. Has done for nearly 20 years.

Err not really when you take into consideration that the government are pumping over 300+ Million Euros into it this year?

From my perspective that's not running at a profit at all.

grahamo

ixoy wrote: »

*Sigh* Even if that is true to a degree, how does that solve the core fact that CIE are running major losses? How do we fix these losses without reform? And how does a strike bring that reform about so that we can get the best public service from our buses with the funding we have?

They could enter into negotiations to change the way its run for a start.
Over the last few years Dublin Bus have bought hundreds of new buses costing a couple of hundred million. Then decide they don't need 10% of their fleet.:mad: Don't they plan ahead?
They talk people into leaving secure employment to become bus drivers then a year later ruin their lives by telling them they are surplus to requirements??:(
Why aren't senior managers and ministers in the dept. of Transport paying with their jobs for this? That would probably save enough to keep these drivers on.

OhNoYouDidn't

gandalf wrote: »

Err not really when you take into consider that the government are pumping over 300+ Million Euros into it this year?

From my perspective that's not running at a profit at all.

Into CIE yes. And they are not letting staff go or cutting services.

But Dublin Bus still turns a profit for the group, does not get any state subvention yet is still letting people go and reducing services.

Something does not add up here.

grahamo

gandalf wrote: »

Congrats I've only been in the workforce 18 years fulltime (plus 6 years part time when I was in 2nd and 3rd level as well) so obviously your life experience dwarfs mine .

A bit of a childish comment there Gandalf. I'm not particularly bothered about who has more life experience. I was simply replying to your earlier judgement of me where you stated
"Oh please I'd question whether any of the people spouting this class warrior rubbish actually have worked for any period of time in the real world.."

gandalf

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Into CIE yes. And they are not letting staff go or cutting services.

But Dublin Bus still turns a profit for the group, does not get any state subvention yet is still letting people go and reducing services.

Something does not add up here.

But according to Dublin Bus accounts for 2007 they get European Union and Exchequer Grants?

gandalf

grahamo wrote: »

A bit of a childish comment there Gandalf. I'm not particularly bothered about who has more life experience. I was simply replying to your earlier judgement of me where you stated
"Oh please I'd question whether any of the people spouting this class warrior rubbish actually have worked for any period of time in the real world.."

Well reading some of the comments being posted on this thread especially the childish rubbish at the start they read like they were written by a 1st year arts student. But after seeing the beauty of a comment that has come from the mouth of a GRA representative today it appears that its catching.

eoinbn

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Into CIE yes. And they are not letting staff go or cutting services.

But Dublin Bus still turns a profit for the group, does not get any state subvention yet is still letting people go and reducing services.

Something does not add up here.

Yes, your maths don't add up.

Irishtimes.
"According to CIÉ's most recent accounts, Dublin Bus had revenues of €200.4 million last year, up 6 per cent on 2006. It received a State subvention of €80 million and recorded a surplus of €4.8 million."

There really is no hope for us. Ah well was fun while it lasted :rolleyes: