Dublin bus to strike on the day of Ireland vs England rugby

FTA69

gandalf wrote: »

Oh please I'd question whether any of the people spouting this class warrior rubbish actually have worked for any period of time in the real world.

I went to England at age 19 on my own, knowing nobody bar an aunt. I found my own flat and my own job. I worked labouring and driving machines 60-70 hours a week in an East London industrial dump starting at 6:30am every day. Because I lived in Tottenham I had to make an hour's commute to work every morning with the same back in the evening, six days a week. Often working Sundays too and every Bank Holiday there was. After I saved up a good amount after 2 years of that lark I went home and am now in college, paying for everything myself and working hours in a local hotel. I might be only 21 years of age, but I'm entirely self-sufficient and have worked since I was 13.

I'm not saying the above makes me super-cool or anything, but at the same time I'm no stranger to hard work and as such am far removed from the stereotype you're trying to apply.

FTA69

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Because he saw the duplicity in socialism and where/why it usually failed.

Not really, he saw the dangers in Stalinist totalitarianism; he wasn't anti-socialist at all. As I said, he was a member of the POUM in Spain. Evidently you're one of those people who makes a shallow reading of Animal Farm and wrongly assumes Orwell was pro-capitalism.

No, of course not. You just posted some generalistic bilge about rugby union fans being upper-middle class (wannabe)snobs instead. I'm not whingeing about it.

Yep, you have to admit loads of them are pains in the hole though, Ronan O'Gara? Give me strength...

At the end of the day people seem to be blaming unions for the economic crisis we're in, not the wheeling and dealing that took place in the US which led to this crisis in the first place. Secondly, the set of circumstances in this country that facilitated the collapse here weren't the doing of the unions, rather the incompetent government and robber-baron bankers that treated this country as a financial playground. If characters were in China they'd be chipping salt down a mine somewhere by now.

Suddenly, now that the country's gone to sh*t we hear all about the need for cutbacks and belt-tightening. Meanwhile those who caused this mess in the first place are allowed to retain the wealth they made off the backs of ordinary people here while we get the privilege of guaranteeing the sh*tty assets with our tax money. On top of this then people feel the need to felon-set ordinary working-class people with the nonsense that as soon as we all agree to start working for f*ck all and dismantle the unions then we'll be "competitive" and everything will be rosy in the garden. My hole.

gandalf

FTA69 wrote: »

Serenity Now! wrote: »

At the end of the day people seem to be blaming unions for the economic crisis we're in, not the wheeling and dealing that took place in the US which led to this crisis in the first place.

Nope we're not. I personally blame the short term vision of the government, not sorting things out when times were good so we were set up for when times went bad as normally happens in an economic cycle.

The problem now is things are so bad that drastic measures are needed (because THE GOVERNMENT did not plan ahead) and the unions are behaving like there is still a full trough in front of them.

Secondly, the set of circumstances in this country that facilitated the collapse here weren't the doing of the unions, rather the incompetent government and robber-baron bankers that treated this country as a financial playground. If characters were in China they'd be chipping salt down a mine somewhere by now.

You won't get any argument from me with this analysis however it doesn't solve the problem that exists now.

Suddenly, now that the country's gone to sh*t we hear all about the need for cutbacks and belt-tightening. Meanwhile those who caused this mess in the first place are allowed to retain the wealth they made off the backs of ordinary people here while we get the privilege of guaranteeing the sh*tty assets with our tax money. On top of this then people feel the need to felon-set ordinary working-class people with the nonsense that as soon as we all agree to start working for f*ck all and dismantle the unions then we'll be "competitive" and everything will be rosy in the garden. My hole.

LOL things will be far from Rosy but unions digging their heals in and not accepting the reality that costs have to be cut and people will have to lose jobs is not going to help. Holding those who are dependant on public transport like ordinary workers or pensioners is pathetic and should be deplored. The only discomfort it will cause the so called fat cats is they may have to sit in traffic a little longer in their nice big cars. Dublin Bus will lose revenue and if its prolonged the 300 number may increase.

Serenity Now!

FTA69 wrote: »

Not really, he saw the dangers in Stalinist totalitarianism; he wasn't anti-socialist at all. As I said, he was a member of the POUM in Spain. Evidently you're one of those people who makes a shallow reading of Animal Farm and wrongly assumes Orwell was pro-capitalism

Well, you can pull your head in with yet another stupid assumption. I studied George Orwell's works in university over twenty years ago. 'Lion and the Unicorn' ring a bell? 'Road to Wigan Pier'?

djpbarry

FTA69 wrote: »

At the end of the day people seem to be blaming unions for the economic crisis we're in…

No, I blame everyone. I’m not terribly selective.

FTA69 wrote: »

Secondly, the set of circumstances in this country that facilitated the collapse here weren't the doing of the unions, rather the incompetent government and robber-baron bankers that treated this country as a financial playground.

And what of the electorate? Ye’know, the ones who spent way beyond their means (and elected said government)?

FTA69 wrote: »

Meanwhile those who caused this mess in the first place are allowed to retain the wealth they made off the backs of ordinary people here while we get the privilege of guaranteeing the sh*tty assets with our tax money.

Where did those “sh*tty assets” come from, might I ask?

thomasj

doesn't look good at all! http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0218/transport.html

SIPTU shop stewards have decided that there will be an all-out strike at Dublin Bus from 1 March if management pushes forward with cost-cutting measures.

The union made the decision after receiving a mandate from its members.

Yesterday, bus drivers at Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus said they would mount a one-day strike on Saturday 28 February in protest at 600 planned redundancies at the two State companies.

A further two-day strike was planned for 9 and 10 March.

Separately, Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey has told the Oireachtas transport committee that passengers have been deserting CIÉ bus services at a dramatic rate over the last six to eight months.

He said that was despite the Government giving it €313m in public money - a subsidy that was up 34% since 2002.

The minister also warned that the CIÉ bus companies could lose €100m this year unless costs were cut.

Mr Dempsey said nobody wanted to see bus strikes but there had to be reform.

thebman

I'm sure striking on the day of one of the few things people get to enjoy will ensure widespread support from the general public for their cause.

I'm also sure there is a dole queue of people willing to take their jobs so lets go to it folks.

ixoy

So if SIPTU votes thusly, does it mean no Dublin Buses from March 1 onwards? I hope not, because the economic damage they could do, at a time when people can ill afford it, is unthinkable. Have they got counter-proposals as well or are they expecting money to magic itself up to pay for all the drivers?

FTA69

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Well, you can pull your head in with yet another stupid assumption. I studied George Orwell's works in university over twenty years ago. 'Lion and the Unicorn' ring a bell? 'Road to Wigan Pier'?

They do indeed, one documenting the misery of the English working class and the latter saying a socialist revolution was in order. Of course he was sharply critical of Stalin's USSR, and rightly so in many respects. But he wasn't anti-socialist and nor would he be laughing at the idea of a strike. He was a member of one of Labour's more militant offshoots I believe.

But of course you studied him in college. So you must be right.

Kinetic^

mountanyman wrote: »

Rubbish. Croke park is near mainline train and luas links. The bus drivers are trying to imporve the bus service. fair play to tehm!

Please explain to us how they're trying to make the bus service better by striking?

mikemac wrote: »

Just jumping in here and maybe it's been mentioned already

Why don't they run the bus service but refuse to collect fares if they wish to protest?
Bus Eireann have definitly done this in the past, I'm not sure about Dublin Bus.

Just throwing it out there, there is already a precedent

Not collecting fares would see them get fired, you can be assured of that. You either work or you don't. There is no in between.

CiaranC

Singer73 wrote: »

I am appalled at how cowardly and selfishly the unions are behaving. Ranting and raving about the fact that it was "not us, it was the bankers who caused this" is not going to solve anything...

It WASNT us, the normal PAYE worker, who caused this. It WAS the bankers/construction/FF cartels who caused this.

What do they get? 600,000 euro golden handshakes. What do we get? The dole queue.

This country is full of masochists. I swear most people enjoy being made fools of time after time by the political and financial elites.

Arrrrrgh

ixoy

CiaranC wrote: »

It WASNT us, the normal PAYE worker, who caused this. It WAS the bankers/construction/FF cartels who caused this.

So why punish us, the normal PAYE worker, by removing our ability to get to work and keep us in some money during the recession?

CiaranC

ixoy wrote: »

So why punish us, the normal PAYE worker, by removing our ability to get to work and keep us in some money during the recession?

Its on a Saturday.

ixoy

CiaranC wrote: »

Its on a Saturday.

It's also on March the 9/10 (a Monday and a Tuesday) and SIPTU have just announced strike action from March 1 onwards, so it's not just a Saturday.

djpbarry

CiaranC wrote: »

It WASNT us, the normal PAYE worker, who caused this.

:rolleyes:

I've yet to get an answer to this question, but I'll try again; are the people of this country not responsible for keeping their personal finances in order?

ixoy

djpbarry wrote: »

I've yet to get an answer to this question, but I'll try again; are the people of this country not responsible for keeping their personal finances in order?

Of course not - if they took out a mortgage on an over-priced house, it was the BANKERS that made them take it: they certainly wouldn't have been able to make an informed decision for themselves! Similarly if they stretched their credit, it was only because the BANKERS were offering it to them - sure how on earth could people say no: the BANKERS wouldn't lie to them! In fact if you think about it, all the economic issues are caused by money, and who issues money? The banks. And who runs them? BANKERS!

So yeah, nobody is responsible but the BANKERS - they caused it all

thebman

CiaranC wrote: »

Its on a Saturday.

People work on Saturdays too.

stepbar

At least the Taximen will have a good say out next saturday....

stepbar

ixoy wrote: »

Of course not - if they took out a mortgage on an over-priced house, it was the BANKERS that made them take it: they certainly wouldn't have been able to make an informed decision for themselves! Similarly if they stretched their credit, it was only because the BANKERS were offering it to them - sure how on earth could people say no: the BANKERS wouldn't lie to them! In fact if you think about it, all the economic issues are caused by money, and who issues money? The banks. And who runs them? BANKERS!

So yeah, nobody is responsible but the BANKERS - they caused it all

Love the sarcasm:D

dresden8

djpbarry wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I've yet to get an answer to this question, but I'll try again; are the people of this country not responsible for keeping their personal finances in order?

Indeed we are. My finances are fine but I just got handed the bill by the government for other people's excesses.

stepbar

dresden8 wrote: »

Indeed we are. My finances are fine but I just got handed the bill by the government for other people's excesses.

So did I. Maybe I should invoice them?

Serenity Now!

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Dublin Bus runs at a profit. Has done for nearly 20 years.

LOL! It has sucked exchequer funding for even longer. No wonder this alleged profit of yours is for the pointing :rolleyes:

Serenity Now!

FTA69 wrote: »

They do indeed, one documenting the misery of the English working class and the latter saying a socialist revolution was in order. Of course he was sharply critical of Stalin's USSR, and rightly so in many respects. But he wasn't anti-socialist and nor would he be laughing at the idea of a strike. He was a member of one of Labour's more militant offshoots I believe.

But of course you studied him in college. So you must be right.

Oh ffs.
I never said he was "anti-socialist".
He saw plenty of cracks in socialism because of corruptive and hypocritical elements in those who allegedly purported to practise it.
The wiki you probably just ripped through would even tell you that, I'd venture.

gandalf

Well SIPTU are on all out strike from the 1st of March. I wonder how many of the poor commuters that rely on their "service" they will lose with this action. (Dublin Buses shoddy service convinced me to buy a car in the mid 90's). And then when they are told passenger numbers and revenue are down and action has to be taken to address it will they strike again. They really don't have a bloody clue do they.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0219/1224241418134.html

maggy_thatcher

gandalf wrote: »

Well SIPTU are on all out strike from the 1st of March. I wonder how many of the poor commuters that rely on their "service" they will lose with this action. (Dublin Buses shoddy service convinced me to buy a car in the mid 90's). And then when they are told passenger numbers and revenue are down and action has to be taken to address it will they strike again. They really don't have a bloody clue do they.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0219/122424141, no payouts, no8134.html

SIPTU control less than half of the workers, but they're relying on other people to not cross the pickets -- I thought it was illegal to block workers not involved in a strike from doing their jobs?

If it's possible for a person to go to work, and they don't show up, they should be immediately fired (especially if they aren't directly connected to the strike action).

The Corinthian

CiaranC wrote: »

It WASNT us, the normal PAYE worker, who caused this. It WAS the bankers/construction/FF cartels who caused this.

And McDonalds made us all obese.

Don't get me wrong, the bankers/construction/FF cartels share some of the responsibility, but this is all too reminiscent of how we used to blame the English and "eight hundred years of oppression" for how Ireland was a basket case economy, up to the nineties.

I was wondering who the next scapegoat was going to be.

meanmachine3

gandalf wrote: »

I don't see how having no service and making people more wary of relying on public transport is improving the service?

reply

Serenity Now! wrote: »

No they're not!
If they're not demanding that they be kept on, they'll be demanding a bigger payout.
How this improves the bus service is indeed a tricky one to pick :eek:
Somehow the bus service owes them a job even though a job might not be viable.

The comments from the self-perceived class warriors/deludes in this thread are funny though. I'm sure Orwell is laughing his head off somewhere.

this is the post that sticks out the most to me.
this strike isn't just about the 160 unappointed drivers being let go. it's also about changes in work practices.from what i can gather on the 1st of march when all these changes are done most routes will have new timetables. this wasn't discussed or agreed by the unions. at the moment it's hard trying to make your time from point A out to point B. these new schedules do not give us any extra time from what i can see therefore we will be under severe pressure to make our times therefore putting your safety at risk.
i posted this in another thread.
" i know of drivers who will be down over €120 a week in their wages if these changes are implemented. most bus drivers are not on the 60,70k alot of you presume we are on. last year i came out with less than 32k. my take home pay is less than €500 p/w.some posters here i assume have lost their jobs or are about to, some of you i'm sure will have to give back your car. dublin bus want to make severe changes to routes across the city by taking buses off routes. that means there will be less buses for those of you that use them, rely on them or will have no choice but to use them in the near future.
the unions weren't consulted about the changes, they were brought to a meeting and told this is what we want basically take it or leave it, the ballot for industrial action was and still is a last resort. i'm a marked in driver ( i have my own route) and i am serioulsly concerned about the changes dublin bus are making and the affect it will have on my passengers. i've up-loaded the changes. the ones marked in orange are the routes that are going to get cuts.all the rest are euro's."
at the end of the day it's more buses that we need not less. there are thousands of people loosing their livelyhoods every week, more people will be looking at using public transport due to high costs of running cars.
people can slate us all they want and call for privatisation but if you look across the water at our neighbours you will see it didn't and doesn't work. the british government are pumping more and more money into the privates over there and the only ones coming out on top are the fat cats that own these companies.
the only hit dublin bus management are taking is a 10% cut in their bonus nothing more, yet they want to let go the lads on probation knowing quiet well they dont have to give these guys a single cent.

this is in reply to an earlier post ,the N.B.R.U. have a majority of at least 2/1 if not 3/1 over S.I.P.T.U. but both unions are looking for the same thing more or less. what we have to wait for is to see if the N.B.R.U. are going to back the all out strike. when the ballots were counted the average between both unions was 84% in favour for industrial action upto and including strike.
look folks at the end of the day every country no matter where needs public transport, what both companies are doing is cutting the services that the public needs the most. we as bus drivers are on your side not against you.
the vast majority of bus driver cant afford to go out on strike but we have little alternative.
the difference between us and most other sectors is we're not afraid to fight for what we believe in. at the end of the day no matter who goes out on strike be it nurses, taxi drivers, the guards etc. people will always cry fowl saying it's not right. so if thats the case why dont we all just line down and take every cut back no matter where on the chin without saying a word.
also remember biffo's famous words.
"as long as I am running this Government I will run the Government as I see fit, as I believe, based on my philosophy,"
list of cuts are below

Serenity Now!

meanmachine3 wrote: »

the unions weren't consulted about the changes, they were brought to a meeting and told this is what we want basically take it or leave it

Since when was a union involved the running of a company?
Playing the emotional blackmail card such as 'your public safety', 'getting you to your destination on time' or 'the country needs a transport system' is all very trite at this stage. If you were going to strike out of concern for every improvement required to run a transport system to the standards of other western European countries, you would have been on the pickets for some decades by now.

Dublin Bus' regular daytime timetables are a woeful service (particularly compared to what they should be) and have been as long as I can remember. This is why I don't use them.

bobbyjoe

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Since when was a union involved the running of a company?
Playing the emotional blackmail card such as 'your public safety', 'getting you to your destination on time' or 'the country needs a transport system' is all very trite at this stage. If you were going to strike out of concern for every improvement required to run a transport system to the standards of other western European countries, you would have been on the pickets for some decades by now.

Dublin Bus' regular daytime timetables are a woeful service (particularly compared to what they should be) and have been as long as I can remember. This is why I don't use them.

Since when was a union involved in running a company?
Since Unions first started.
We have been hearing about partnership, working together etc etc for the last decade. Thats all out the window now. Directives are coming down with no consultation. Great post by the Bus driver above hope it works out for you.

maggy_thatcher

bobbyjoe wrote: »

Since when was a union involved in running a company?
Since Unions first started.
We have been hearing about partnership, working together etc etc for the last decade. Thats all out the window now. Directives are coming down with no consultation. Great post by the Bus driver above hope it works out for you.

More accurately unions are involved in the stopping of the running of a company and generally holding it at gunpoint so they can justify their existence.

Yes - times are hard, so lay-offs are inevitible. These redundancies that the bus companies are using is a last-in first-out policy which people think is unfair for some bizarre reason. Mr. Bus driver, how do you propose cutting the cost of the bus network so that it can operate in a zero-sum solution? "Voluntary" redundancies are very expensive (only those approaching retirement will take it, which means substantial pay-outs), meaning many more lay-offs would be needed to cover it - resulting in an even worse service!