Dublin bus to strike on the day of Ireland vs England rugby

AlekSmart

Valid point indeed however Ryanairs somewhat unique employment procedures tend to shroud the identity of the employer in a shroud of subbies,jobbies and casuals all designed to minimise Ryanairs exposure to statutory payments in the event of lay-off.

Make no mistake but Ryanair`s day in the sun is fast approaching and we will see a litany of lay-off`s,probably occurring in far off locations with the laid off staff having to make their own way home,similar to the situation which the various Seamen`s missions are coping with every day at our major ports.

As this depression deepens outfits like Ryanair will be seen to assume a position of far less importance in the greater scheme of things as securing bread for the table will override that need to take in a West-End show....

djpbarry

stepbar wrote: »

Here's news for you..... I saw the P60 of one bus driver who was earning nearly 60k. Granted it was the year ended '07, but with O/T a bus driver can get fairly close to 60k if he / she really wanted to work O/T (and was lucky to get enough of it).

Ok, perhaps I should have specified a driver who is working a normal week.

meanmachine3

this post is taken from another similar thread and i'm posting this here to let you decide for yourselves. bear in mind that this is coming from bus drivers. dublin bus strangely enough haven't publicised this to anyone.

---

Just to make everyone here aware of the plan, which if any part thereof is implemented by Dublin bus without agreement will lead to strike action.
While bus driver unions would possibly accept parts of this plan, the company will not compromise on any part and insist the full plan must be implemented.

1. Agreed pay increases of 6% to be deferred.

2. 48 hour week to be implemented.

3. 120 buses to be removed from service.

4. Loss of shift payment
currently €20.77 daily paid to drivers who work shift.

5. Loss of travel time payment
overtime payment Paid to drivers who start and finish in different locations
from Donnybrook city center 30 Min's
Donybrook Dun Loaghaire 45 Min's
Donnybrook Bray 60 Min's

6. Change of Euro shift hours
Euro drivers currently work mon to fri 12 hour shifts, they want this changed to 13 hour shifts.

7. Cut running times on all routes to increase productivity.
While this makes the timetable look good, it will have a drastic effect on reliability.

8. Removal of compensation payments if routes are moved to other garages.
If I'm working on the 746 route in Donnybrook and they move the route to harristown I wont receive compensation for the extra traveling to work.

9. No payment for late breaks
Currently if a driver is 30 Min's late breaking due to heavy traffic etc, driver receives 1 hour overtime if they agree to come back on time and cut short there break.

12. Decrease overtime by 75%

13. Part time staff
Employ part time staff to work Sundays and pay them less than what we are currently paid.

14. Loss of spreadover payment
Spreadover is paid to drivers whose workday is over 10 hours, currently €15.96, paid hourly after 10 hours, so 12 hour shift equals 2 hours payment.

15. Increase staff to duty ratio
We have an agreement to have a limit on the number of staff to duty's, they want to increase this ratio effectively reducing overtime to zero.

16. Desafing staff to have there hours reduced.
Staff who empty the safes will have there work hours and pay cut.

17. 190 probationary drivers to have there contracts terminated.
end of post.
dublin bus want all these changes implemented on or by the 1st of march without discussing any of it with the unions first. this is an insult to anyone thats a union member

johnp23

Hi Meanmachine thanks for posting that.

Looking at the conditions i cant understand why the buses are going on strike. By the looks of the attached they are just taking away the ususal civil service perks and bringing the company in to line with the way private companies are ran.

nice_guy80

If there ever was one public company that needed to be taken apart it was CIE

the work practices across all companies is deplorable - Irish Rail, Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann. the employees refuse to change their work arangements to help run the companies more efficiently as a modern service to the PUBLIC - and not just jobs for the boys

then you have the manangement in the bus companies who go out of their way to run competing private companies into the ground

Kieo

omg the dart is gonna be packed now!!! face squashed against window room only.

Yenwod

Kieo wrote: »

omg the dart is gonna be packed now!!! face squashed against window room only.

:mad: good point

projectmayhem

meanmachine3 wrote: »

this is an insult to anyone thats a union member

This strike is an insult to anyone who regularly commutes using Dublin bus. It's a sham of a "service" and gutting it from the inside is the only way it can be saved. People going on strike to save their jobs is a ludicrous idea.

What gets me is that CIE raised the fares only to cut the service in a time of recession. We really need more competition in the market...

dresden8

givyjoe81 wrote: »

Hmmm, when did Ryaniar last go on strike.. hmmmm let me seee.... Now there's an idea, Ryanair take over from Dublin bus.

Yes, good idea.

Then your bus to O'Connell Street will stop in Naas.

diverdriver

I recently had the delight of using using public transport in Dublin after a bit of a gap. Had to be in town all day and didn't want to face the parking charges, designed of course to make us use public transport. First off was the LUAS, parked my car, made my way to the station, a tram arrived as advertised and off to town I trundled. No complaints. I was late but my own idiot fault. LUAS is operated by a private sector company, I believe? Pity there are only two LUAS lines.

Next day, Friday, I took the bus, mid morning. I prudently allowed an hour and a half for what in the car was a twenty minute drive. Used all of it up and arrived late but only barely. That was getting the bus at the terminus. The delay wasn't traffic it was waiting for the bus to arrive. Timetable is fiction Singularly unimpressed.

Saturday, bus again, lesson learned but got lucky and arrived at the same time as a bus. Got in early. Light traffic on Saturday. Nobody shopping in Dublin? This is what the service should be like.

Sunday, brought the car in, with some relief and parked opposite my destination. Twenty minutes.

What have I learned? The bus service has dis-improved since I used to use it regularly. If you have to go into the city for a couple of hours Mon - Sat, bring the car. If for the full day. Drive to the nearest LUAS if you can. Keep away from buses. Oddly enough, that exactly what people are doing.

Those terms, meanmachine posted tells you all you need to know about how the whole bus service is run for the benefit of the drivers and not the public. Allowances, payments for this and payments for that. You can see the unions' baleful influence there straight away.

Frankly, I hope the strike goes ahead. With a bit of luck the whole rotten edifice will collapse and be replaced by a bus service for the passengers, not the staff. The bus unions have held the passengers to ransom so often now over the years, it's a wonder anyone bothers to use the service.

There has to be a reckoning eventually. I for one would be glad to see the back of the NBRU.

xOxSinéadxOx

they obviously want the public to turn against them!

dresden8

Because of a lack of resources Dublin Bus is forced to push all of its buses through every traffic bottleneck along all of its routes to serve all of the FF/Developer crappy housing estates.

In Swords here the private bus company runs it's route from just beside the bypass to the motorway through the port tunnel into town.

In contast, while the express service runs throught the port tunnel in the morning it is forbidden to run through the tunnel in the evening thereby ensuring it's a freaking nightmare through Drumcondra and along the Old Airport Road. It also goes through the housing estates on the way back while the private service doesn't go near them.

What we have is an artificially created situation where the Dublin Bus service is intentionally designed to look bad beside a private service which provides much less of a service at a much higher price, while the private service shuts down at about 8pm.

The competition to Dublin Bus has done everything it can to destroy competition on it's own particular patch, which kinda destroys the whole "the private sector opens up competition" argument.

Bunch of crap.

mickoneill30

dresden8 wrote: »

What we have is an artificially created situation where the Dublin Bus service is intentionally designed to look bad beside a private service which provides much less of a service at a much higher price, while the private service shuts down at about 8pm.

The competition to Dublin Bus has done everything it can to destroy competition on it's own particular patch, which kinda destroys the whole "the private sector opens up competition" argument.

Bunch of crap.

The Dublin Bus express route in Swords has looked bad for years. The competition which started in late 2007 didn't just suddenly make it look bad.

Regarding the Swords route. The private service managed to get its application in for the route before Dublin Bus. The Port Tunnel seemed to have hit DB by surprise or maybe they thought they didn't need to apply for the route (that's what you get when you've no competition). I've no clue how that could have happened but somebody wasn't doing their job.

Also that Swords private operator operates an express service from Swords from 6:30AM all day until 7:30PM. When there was no competition (and still now) the DB express route starts from Swords at 7:25AM then the last one is at 7:55AM so I'm not sure how the private operator is providing much less of a service for that route.
http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/viewer.asp?route=41x vs http://www.swordsexpress.com/blog/timetable/
Then going home the last 41X starts at 5:30PM. Forget about the people that might be leaving work at 5:30PM or later. They can just get the slower buses.
It's been like that for years. So I'm not sure how the competition affects it. There is no express competition from Swords after 7:55AM. There's just one express operator. I used to be one of the chosen few every so often that managed to get on the 41X (Rivervalley). It would always be full and driving past many stops with poor souls waving at it to stop. I counted more than 30 left behind a few times. You'd have to walk to the first 3 or 4 stops to make sure you could get on. I did contact Dublin Bus as I thought they didn't know for some reason but they told me that unfortunately there was nothing they could do.
When the Swords Express opened up it was great. Frequent, reliable buses that you could get a seat on. Bleedin expensive alright but they've proven that people will pay for it if it's a good service. Coincidentally at exactly the same time there seemed to be a hell of a lot more 41Xs but I'm sure that's just my imagination. During my 10 min walk to the private bus stop I'd be passed by 2 41Xs (where before there were none). At the time it seemed to me that it was lucky for Dublin Bus that they could now put more buses on just as the private operator started up.

Anyway my point is that for years Swords had the same mediocre overflowing express service in the mornings and evenings. Now that there's competition the private operator is getting the blame for DBs probs on the route. Who was to blame for all the years the private operator didn't exist?

You're right about it coming home though. It is stupidity of the highest order not to allow the express DB through the tunnel on the way home. There's plenty of custom on that route for the private operator and for DB at those times. There's no need to hinder Dublin Bus there. The private operator is hindered too though. He tried to expand early last year. I know he applied to the DOT and I also know he didn't expand. Maybe they're still considering it. They seem to take their time in there.

When the buses (private and DB) are allowed through the tunnel and with a little bit of luck they can get from Swords to City Centre in 20 - 25 mins. Much faster than a car and much cheaper than building a metro.

meanmachine3

diverdriver wrote: »

I recently had the delight of using using public transport in Dublin after a bit of a gap. Had to be in town all day and didn't want to face the parking charges, designed of course to make us use public transport. First off was the LUAS, parked my car, made my way to the station, a tram arrived as advertised and off to town I trundled. No complaints. I was late but my own idiot fault. LUAS is operated by a private sector company, I believe? Pity there are only two LUAS lines.

Next day, Friday, I took the bus, mid morning. I prudently allowed an hour and a half for what in the car was a twenty minute drive. Used all of it up and arrived late but only barely. That was getting the bus at the terminus. The delay wasn't traffic it was waiting for the bus to arrive. Timetable is fiction Singularly unimpressed.

Saturday, bus again, lesson learned but got lucky and arrived at the same time as a bus. Got in early. Light traffic on Saturday. Nobody shopping in Dublin? This is what the service should be like.

Sunday, brought the car in, with some relief and parked opposite my destination. Twenty minutes.

What have I learned? The bus service has dis-improved since I used to use it regularly. If you have to go into the city for a couple of hours Mon - Sat, bring the car. If for the full day. Drive to the nearest LUAS if you can. Keep away from buses.

Frankly, I hope the strike goes ahead. With a bit of luck the whole rotten edifice will collapse and be replaced by a bus service for the passengers, not the staff. The bus unions have held the passengers to ransom so often now over the years, it's a wonder anyone bothers to use the service.

There has to be a reckoning eventually. I for one would be glad to see the back of the NBRU.

these new timetables being introduced from the 1st of march will not improve the services they will make them a whole lot worse. you said yourself that you were wating for a bus to arrive so i take that the bus was actually late. the new time being introduced are not improving the ruunig time we have. it's still the same. now if dublin bus were interested in the ordinary worker they would've put out realistic running times. yes i agree passenger neumber have fallen and alot of this is due to the fact that the bus never shows up why?
the number 27 has 45 minutes to get from city centre to clare hall
real time it takes 55 mins aprox. so straight way he's 10 mins late.
heres a simpler version.
BUS 1
city centre 18.00
clare hall 18.45
BUS 2
city centre 18.10
clare hall 18.55
BUS 3
city centre 18.20
clare hall 19.05

now if bus 1 and 2 both arrive at clare hall at 18.55. bus 2 will leave on it's time of 18.55 but because bus 1 is ten minutes late he's told to work it from the U.C.I. into town.
this is rampant across the city, unrealistic times.
now if the 3 buses all arrive in clare hall at 19.05 then buses 1 & 2 will go back into town empty while bus 3 runs at 19.05 like it's supposed to. thats why you see alot of three up and 2 coming down empty.
all i want is proper running times as well as my terms & conditions negociated by the union i pay each week to represent me

AlekSmart

One part of the Swords issue as yet to be decided upon by the Department of Transport is Dublin Bus`s proposed 141 service which was intended to make fuller utilization of the Swords Road QBC (As the company is constantly being advised to do by many and varied Ministers,Consultants and Soothsayers).

The 141 service was it seems,to be a 10 minute peak frequency,7 day,low-floor fully accessible service utilizing a sizeable portion of the 100 EXTRA buses whose purchase had been recently sanctioned by The Department`s of Finance and Transport and (one assumes) their relevant Ministers.
The route would also have utilised a good proportion (40+) of those newly recruited operational staff who are being made redundant next Saturday.

The 141 was (is?) intended to travel direct Swords-Rathgar,avoiding the Airport, utilising QBC infrastructure for at least 80% of its routing.
The Company were of the opinion that as a stage-carriage full service there were no competitive issues vis a vis the Swords Express which shared only a short stretch of public roadway with the proposed 141.

That opinion turned out to be ill founded as the Department were/are of the Opinion that a full-service,fully accessible stage carriage BUS service is the same as a limited-stop limited access Express COACH service and so would raise insurmountable competition issues which might leave the Department liable under EU regulations.

Dublin Bus were therefore informed that the required permission for the 141 was denied but that a subsequent re-application could be made after Swords Express began operations.

That re-application is now the stuff of speculation,with some doubt as to whether it was actually made and even greater doubt as to the Departments thinking on this matter.
SO...as it stands the residents of Swords must make do with a somewhat outdated and seriously overloaded 41 group of routes,which must also attempt to cater for the micro-culture of the Airport.

In the interim it appears that Swords Express has also submitted another application/s to extend its brand further into the Swords undergrowth.

It should also be borne in mind that ANY Road based Public Transport Operator is fighting an uphill struggle to acomodate residents of one of the great standing monuments to decades of inappropriate and ill considered zoning decisions by well connected and dubiously qualified millionaire politicians.

The current Bus Atha Cliath proposals studiously avoid any mention of the 141 which I find odd as I regard it as one of the potentially great additions to a proper cross-city link for North County Dublin residents.....Ah well....perhaps if it were in Noel`s constituency....sigh

The Corinthian

meanmachine3 wrote: »

all i want is proper running times as well as my terms & conditions negociated by the union i pay each week to represent me

We can only work from the information that has been given to us and from what I can see only one out of the 17 points you have published here have anything to do with quality of service, and even then, only arguably so as we have to take your word for it that the new running times cannot be met.

This unfortunately falls rather short of your earlier claim that "the only ones suffering due to woeful timetables as you put it are you ( the general public). thats one of the things we're fighting to get changed here", as it really does not look as if you're trying to change anything - quite the opposite, if one assumes that the Dublin Bus unions are opposing any changes.

The problem is that quality of service with Dublin Bus has been atrocious for a very long time, and this is reflected in how people have been abandoning the service. As a result, the consumer is not inclined to have a gigantic amount of sympathy for the workers in Dublin Bus, when it is evident that their objections have little to do with quality of service and more to do with overtime and conditions, especially as - from the perspective of the consumer - the unions have consistently blocked all past attempts at reform.

meanmachine3

1. Agreed pay increases of 6% to be deferred.

i'm willing to accept the hit here.

2. 48 hour week to be implemente

this doesn't bother me one way or another

3. 120 buses to be removed from service.

totally against this

4. Loss of shift payment currently €20.77 daily paid to drivers who work shift.

hits me very hard

5. Loss of travel time payment
overtime payment Paid to drivers who start and finish in different locations
from Donnybrook city center 30 Min's
Donybrook Dun Loaghaire 45 Min's
Donnybrook Bray 60 Min's

will affect me somehow

6. Change of Euro shift hours
Euro drivers currently work mon to fri 12 hour shifts, they want this changed to 13 hour shifts

will **** me up big time

7. Cut running times on all routes to increase productivity.
While this makes the timetable look good, it will have a drastic effect on reliability

total suicide

8. Removal of compensation payments if routes are moved to other garages.If I'm working on the 746 route in Donnybrook and they move the route to harristown I wont receive compensation for the extra traveling to work.

will **** me up here to. you can guarantee D/B will not give a driver training on a route he doesn't know.

9. No payment for late breaks
Currently if a driver is 30 Min's late breaking due to heavy traffic etc, driver receives 1 hour overtime if they agree to come back on time and cut short there break.

not a chance. everyone under law is entitled to a break

10. Decrease overtime by 75%

doesn't affect me yet

11. Part time staff
Employ part time staff to work Sundays and pay them less than what we are currently paid.

totally against my beliefs

12. Loss of spreadover payment
Spreadover is paid to drivers whose workday is over 10 hours, currently €15.96, paid hourly after 10 hours, so 12 hour shift equals 2 hours payment.

doesn't affect me yet

13. Increase staff to duty ratio
We have an agreement to have a limit on the number of staff to duty's, they want to increase this ratio effectively reducing overtime to zero.

this agreement stems from the last strike in 2000 which D/B gave us. therefore totally against

14. Desafing staff to have there hours reduced.
Staff who empty the safes will have there work hours and pay cut.

not affected but i'd back them up

15. 190 probationary drivers to have there contracts terminated.

this, numbers 3,7 and 13 criss cross, therefore i'm totally against this . so it's not only the new schedules but all the numbers i have mentioned here. these are all inter linked in some way shape or form that affects most of the travelling public. so 4 out of the 14 ponits will have an indirect/direct impact on the ordinary dublin bus commuter.

squidgey

I heard last night that this strike is being moved to Sunday - any truth in that??

Diogenes

Y'know what baffles me about the arguments of the timing of the strike, it's the people claiming "How dare the workers do this at the time of their peek needs".

I'm sorry business is all about maximising efficiency and effectiveness isn't it? So whats wrong with a group of workers timing their strike to maximise disruption and inconvenience. When do you suggest they strike? Between 11pm on a Sunday and 5am Monday morning.

By timing the strike on a weekend that has a major sporting event they are not hurting weekday commuters but making a visible message to the greater public and national and international media. Are we really concerned about a bunch of rugger fans having to get taxis or walk to croker?

AlekSmart

I heard last night that this strike is being moved to Sunday - any truth in that??

Some individual Drivers have been floating a proposal to move the one-day stoppage to Sunday.

Thios would be allied to a decision to report for work as normal on Monday Morning and be issued with a revised Work Schedule.

The drivers would accept this with a cheery wave and leave the garage as normal.

The proposal was that upon leaving the Garages,the drivers would then immediately call their controllers and advise of a "Mistake" on their Running Boards.

"Wrong Times listed Inspector,Must be a computer problem,Luckily I have my CORRECT timetable here with me so it`s OK,Over and OUT !"

Then those services in a position to do this simply operate as NORMAL in service and see what happens.

Scenario`s could vary..."OK Driver carry on as you are"

"I`m instructing you to stop your Bus NOW" (Great PR especially IF Passengers on-board)

"I`m suspending you" (Technically impossible over the Radio,but one never knows)

"Now if you refuse to operate as per your new board I`ll have to call the Gards"

(This last option is THE one as far as I am concerned as it could provide a Media Opprotunity of the Highest Value Imaginable as Gardai screech to a halt in front of a Bus complete with "Customers" and threaten the DRiver with arrest....for...well I assume TWOC or perhaps not, as the Bus would have been allocated to him/her in the first place)

Now the real benefit in this scheme is that the Busdrivers are reporting for work on the assumption that the current negotiated (and mainly Labour Court brokered) agreements remain in force so whats the problem Gard ?

"Oh well If you have to arrest me,do I get a last cigarette or a final wish?"

Union sources have been reluctant to even consider these ideas as they are not traditional enough and would require a high degree of coordination.

However the entire thing if handled correctly could make for a VERY full day for Minister Dempsey and the Dublin Bus PR Department as well as a hugely memorable journey to work/school on Monday !!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

ixoy

Diogenes wrote: »

Are we really concerned about a bunch of rugger fans having to get taxis or walk to croker?

No we're concerned about the workers on the Monday and Tuesday of the strike who will have great difficulty getting into work in troubled times...

AlexSmart's ideas above seem a lot better and would win a lot more support for them.

Diogenes

ixoy wrote: »

No we're concerned about the workers on the Monday and Tuesday of the strike who will have great difficulty getting into work in troubled times...

Well with respect the thread title refers specifically to the rugby match.

AlexSmart's ideas above seem a lot better and would win a lot more support for them.

Alternatively a mass turning up to work and refusing to take fairs means passengers don't get inconvenienced, public goodwill for the drivers, and a loss of revenue for Dublin Bus.

AlekSmart

The no fare idea was in fact attempted before and as far as I am aware the company will refuse to countenance any such action with immediate retaliatory action,however in these unusual times I agree it should be looked at again.

From a Trade Union point of view the old style Strike Action has largely been made a token gesture following on from Lady Thatcher`s incredibly astute and far seeing decisions to face down the National Union of Miners.

Not alone did she do this and secure a total anihilation of both the actual Union but also of the entire Socially based support structure upon which the entire concept of Trades Unionism was based,but she then went even further and enacted the type of leglislation which allows for Organized Labour to be totally eradicated by financial sequestration of its assets and those of its leaders.

Ever since her remarkable tour de force at the Pit Gates,the Red Baroness`s legacy has been the PRIME element guiding the leadership of Trades Unions....except perhaps in France !

maggy_thatcher

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0225/economy.html

Looks like Dublin Bus management lost this game of chicken

thebman

I imagine the talks won't go well on Monday