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WIT University Status - "Its a big 'no'"
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Here's a thought - if WIT became a university wouldn't the points increase? Then many Waterford students wouldn't be able to get in and would have to go to a 3rd-level college in another county?0
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Here's a thought - if WIT became a university wouldn't the points increase? Then many Waterford students wouldn't be able to get in and would have to go to a 3rd-level college in another county?
The points would mainly only increase because Waterford people decide to go to the WU rather than another college. So people are already going to college in other counties, that's the problem. If you're right, the university would only bring them back.
Also, there are a lot of courses that WIT can't do because of its industry focus -- which it is trying hard to break away from -- so in these cases 100% of Waterford students are leaving.
What you're saying is similar to, "I hope this restaurant doesn't get better because then I might have a hard time getting a booking and might have to eat somewhere else..."0 -
Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway all have universities but they also have ITs.
Can't see Waterford having a university and no IT - doesn't make sense.
They should have turned John's College into a university for the arts and religious studies and developed it from there.0 -
Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway all have universities but they also have ITs.
Can't see Waterford having a university and no IT - doesn't make sense.
They should have turned John's College into a university for the arts and religious studies and developed it from there.
No one is asking for an IT and a university. The campaign is to upgrade the WIT to university status and let Carlow IT and Tipp. institute take care of the IT needs of the region. This is fair enough if you consider that we have a lot of counties and biggish towns in the south east compared to Galway/Limerick/Cork which are the only major centres of any kind of population in their respective regions (with maybe only one or two exceptions) so the wealth should be shared, as it were.0 -
I myself have no experience of the facilites ect personally of WIT, but judging by past threads on this subject, I am not surprised that WIT will not be upgraded, and I think its the right decession to make. WIT need to clean up there house a lot and then re-apply.....0
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I myself have no experience of the facilites ect personally of WIT, but judging by past threads on this subject, I am not surprised that WIT will not be upgraded, and I think its the right decession to make. WIT need to clean up there house a lot and then re-apply.....
Once again we have a poster totally and utterly missing the point...
The issue is not - repeat not - about whether WIT should in and of itself be upgraded to university status, whether it "deserves" to be upgraded, or about ticking boxes like the quality of lecture theatres or parking.
The issue is whether the south-east should continue to suffer the disadvantage of not having a university while smaller regions (with albeit marginally larger cities such as Galway) enjoy the benefits that their universities bring to these cities and regions.
The answer in terms of equity of treatment (or parity of esteem if you want to call it that) is obvious: the south-east must eventually have a university. I can't remember all the history, but I seem to remember that the government ruled out the setting-up of a "greenfield" university - i.e. one that was set up from scratch - in favour of the upgrading of an existing institution.
Working on that assumption, the only institution that even remotely fits the bill is WIT, and it should now be used as the platform for the establishment of the state's 8th university, whether students and local residents have concerns about parking or not.
I bought a house a few years ago here in Waterford, as this is where I intend to make my life, possibly raise children, work, socialise, etc. A university will create major opportunities in the social and employment spheres for the city and the region. The students can park on my front lawn if they want, because this is much more important for all our futures than little issues like parking, that some people still can't seem to see past.0 -
I myself have no experience of the facilites ect personally of WIT, but judging by past threads on this subject, I am not surprised that WIT will not be upgraded, and I think its the right decession to make. WIT need to clean up there house a lot and then re-apply.....
Firstly, Fricatus is 100% right in what he says.
But just to clarify a few things further:
- WIT is not a campus on the Cork rd.
- WIT is not a congested carpark.
- WIT is not a set of facilities.
- WIT is not a living being that deserves things or doesn't deserve them.
WIT is a public body in law established by the Institutes of Technology act. WIT owns campuses, carparks, facilities, etc. Now what we want is a university in Waterford, which would be a reconstituted WIT under a new 'Waterford University Act', or whatever. This act would give the WIT/WU/USE similar powers to those of the other universities in the state. An indirect benefit would be the likely increase in recurrent funding and research opportunities and output.
Whether or not WIT is an IT, university, primary school or bookies shop, parking spaces and facilities have nothing to do with it. WIT has better parking than Trinity, does that mean that Trinity should be downgraded and Waterford upgraded in its place? No, of course not.
The main reason why the WIT might not be upgraded is because the government don't want to get themselves into a position where they might have to spend money, in a 'safe' constituency of all places. Don't kid yourself that the decision will have anything to do with the facilities, courses, graduates, quality of education, etc., of WIT, because it won't. The decision will be financial and political.0 -
Inaction condemedTHE FAILURE of Government to act on Waterford Institute of Technology’s (WIT) submission seeking university designation has been termed a “gross insult to the region” by a local campaign group supporting the university agenda.
The Friends of the University of the South East (Fuse) said it was a disgrace that there was still no news three years after WIT’s submission – and said continuing job losses in the region made it more vital than ever that the Government delivers on a university.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0220/1224241488825.html0 -
Firstly, Fricatus is 100% right in what he says.
The main reason why the WIT might not be upgraded is because the government don't want to get themselves into a position where they might have to spend money, in a 'safe' constituency of all places. Don't kid yourself that the decision will have anything to do with the facilities, courses, graduates, quality of education, etc., of WIT, because it won't. The decision will be financial and political.
I do agree it will be financially motivated and political, but my point is that from my understanding is that a lot of things are wrong in WIT, facilities, courses, graduates, quality of education, etc.,.... why should they be considered to be upgraded if they can't get the basic's like educating people in a safe enviroment done correctly....0 -
I do agree it will be financially motivated and political, but my point is that from my understanding is that a lot of things are wrong in WIT, facilities, courses, graduates, quality of education, etc.,.... why should they be considered to be upgraded if they can't get the basic's like educating people in a safe enviroment done correctly....
I give up.0 -
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I do agree it will be financially motivated and political, but my point is that from my understanding is that a lot of things are wrong in WIT, facilities, courses, graduates, quality of education, etc.,.... why should they be considered to be upgraded if they can't get the basic's like educating people in a safe enviroment done correctly....
You're not really a "big picture" person, are you?0 -
Just thought I'd add this in as an aside. Now these are people with vision -true local heroes, and the sort of people who only need the nod from government to make WIT function at the next level. Kudos to all!
http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/ireland8217s-minisilicon-valley-provides-key-blueprint-for-the-next-economy-1645143.html0 -
You're not really a "big picture" person, are you?
Actually I like to think I am, I am all in favour and would gladly support a UNI in the southeast, I believe it would be of massive benifit to the community. I just believe that if the WIT is being run as badly as people has said it is in the past, then why should it get the UNI status... I don't see why the taxpayer should just dole out the money here and hope for the best?????0 -
Once again we have a poster totally and utterly missing the point...
The issue is not - repeat not - about whether WIT should in and of itself be upgraded to university status, whether it "deserves" to be upgraded, or about ticking boxes like the quality of lecture theatres or parking.
The issue is whether the south-east should continue to suffer the disadvantage of not having a university while smaller regions (with albeit marginally larger cities such as Galway) enjoy the benefits that their universities bring to these cities and regions.
I have never said anything about the souteast not getting a UNI, so you actually missed my point, and the topic here is about the WIT getting UNI Status, so I am staying on topic here....
I am all in favour of a UNI in the souteast and fully support the idea...0 -
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Actually I like to think I am, I am all in favour and would gladly support a UNI in the southeast, I believe it would be of massive benifit to the community. I just believe that if the WIT is being run as badly as people has said it is in the past, then why should it get the UNI status... I don't see why the taxpayer should just dole out the money here and hope for the best?????
Well considering that WIT gets one of the lowest per student recurrent budgets every year, believe me, it is very good value for tax payers money. Somebody posted an article from the independent about some of the great things that the WIT is doing and all you can do is harp on about vague, negative rumours you've heard in the past.
An institution can be run badly whether it's a university or an IT. We need a university more than we need an IT, so we should be aiming for a university level institution. In *parallel* to that effort -- because they are *totally* separate issues -- any administrative problems, or otherwise, should be tackled, the very same as the problems that any other institutions might have should be tackled whether or not they are universities or ITs.
And as for these supposed problems. Some people on here seem to think that the WIT is the only institution that does not have enough parking, botches timetables, charges over the odds for boiling water, or has buildings that aren't pretty. Believe me, it is not. I have seen or heard of no evidence whatsoever that the WIT has any more or less problems than any other institution in the country. I'm not interested in comments like "judging by what other people have said in the past, WIT has problems". Not only is that 2nd or 3rd hand experience, but is vague as hell, and should not be taken seriously by anyone.
If someone can point to a news article or report that reports negatively on WIT's facilities relative to other colleges, then by all means enlighten us. Otherwise, can we try not to find fault just for the sake of it? Or cast random aspersions in ignorance that other boards people not from Waterford might pick up on? I cannot understand Waterford people, they are the only people in the country who will actually run down their city, county and institutions, whilst the rest of the country talk up every blade of grass in their counties.0 -
Here's a crazy idea, maybe students could actually walk or use public transport and they wouldn't be on here whining about problems with parking and saying WIT doesn't 'deserve' university status. Hopefully this recession and college fees will force these students to walk and use public transport as they won't have the money for cars.
Do these people think the Government are going to make their decision to designate university status to WIT based on the car parking facilities? FFS, forget about the bloody parking facilities, they have nothing to do with WIT getting university status.
Anyway, there seems to be new attempts to resolve the parking problems:
http://www.waterford-today.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5345&Itemid=1&ed=533Parking Proposal tabled by Cllr O'Neill
Councillor Cha O'Neill has called on the City Manager and Officials to consider a proposal he has made in relation to the parking congestion being caused by the college students in the residential areas surrounding the college.
For some time now the residents surrounding the college have suffered from the parking of cars in their estates, by students attending the college and in some instances these vehicles have resulted in emergency services being unable to gain access which is unacceptable.
Councillor O'Neill has suggested that the new and extensive car park facility at the Regional Sports Centre be opened on a daily basis to allow students to park their vehicles, thus relieving the congestion and frustration suffered by local residents.
The facility at the RSC would cater for some 300 cars and is within walking distance of the college entrance. This facility would accommodate all of the cars and would make use of what is an empty city centre car park for most days of the week.
Cllr O'Neill is recommending that the proposal is given a trial period for several months and if successful, made available on a permanent basis.0 -
Sure all the students are driving from Templars Hall... the RSC would be further away :P0
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Since it is a piece of legislation limiting WIT's Remit. Why not just change that legislation?
It seems a cheap and easy way to get what some people want0 -
If this is correct, I presume the economy will be cited as a "reason" not to invest in a University.
I await InvincibleIrish to arrive from stage left.
You called?
Beyond wounded county pride here there is little else in this thread to suggest that WIT needs an upgrade.
Some light reading, note recommendations on p98:
http://books.google.com/books?id=vUxW0up8I70C&pg=PA233&lpg=PA233&dq=academic+freedom+ireland&source=web&ots=6SmjGvWASm&sig=I1y9YvCXh13R1vFJrPHFZr_FdS4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPA98,M1
"...and that for the foreseeable futue there be no institutional transfers into the University sector."
Rare i would support Government inaction on an issue but between the experts in the OECD, limited 3rd level funding as is and the political pandoras box a WIT upgrade would bring then it seems unlikely for the foreseeable future.0 -
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You accuse me of being vague... and yet one sentence before you write "somebody posted and srticle" thats vague as hell....Well considering that WIT gets one of the lowest per student recurrent budgets every year, believe me, it is very good value for tax payers money. Somebody posted an article from the independent about some of the great things that the WIT is doing and all you can do is harp on about vague, negative rumours you've heard in the past.
my information come from boards here......
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055386394&highlight=WIT
I totally agree with this, everywhere has problems, but WIT isn't the be all of the South east....ther might be better options out there???An institution can be run badly whether it's a university or an IT. We need a university more than we need an IT, so we should be aiming for a university level institution. In *parallel* to that effort -- because they are *totally* separate issues -- any administrative problems, or otherwise, should be tackled, the very same as the problems that any other institutions might have should be tackled whether or not they are universities or ITs.And as for these supposed problems. Some people on here seem to think that the WIT is the only institution that does not have enough parking, botches timetables, charges over the odds for boiling water, or has buildings that aren't pretty. Believe me, it is not. I have seen or heard of no evidence whatsoever that the WIT has any more or less problems than any other institution in the country. I'm not interested in comments like "judging by what other people have said in the past, WIT has problems". Not only is that 2nd or 3rd hand experience, but is vague as hell, and should not be taken seriously by anyone.
why are you re-doing your first paragraph??
I am entitled to my opinions as are you, as to my quote I have put the link to the previous discussion on boards about this...If someone can point to a news article or report that reports negatively on WIT's facilities relative to other colleges, then by all means enlighten us. Otherwise, can we try not to find fault just for the sake of it? Or cast random aspersions in ignorance that other boards people not from Waterford might pick up on? I cannot understand Waterford people, they are the only people in the country who will actually run down their city, county and institutions, whilst the rest of the country talk up every blade of grass in their counties.
Firstly I am not from Waterford, I am from Dublin....
All I am interested in, is what makes sense to me(not for me, to me).
Your response to this is, to me is horrendeous, lets just throw money at the WIT and hope for the best, we'll make it a UNI and it should work out... sure look at limerick and galway, if they have one so should we share the wealth (Sounds like a spoilt kid, if they have one so should we)
I will state again, I believe the South East needs a UNI, but I am not convinced it should be WIT,
Waterfrod city does not constitute the south east.....0 -
invincibleirish wrote: »You called?
Beyond wounded county pride here there is little else in this thread to suggest that WIT needs an upgrade.
Some light reading, note recommendations on p98:
http://books.google.com/books?id=vUxW0up8I70C&pg=PA233&lpg=PA233&dq=academic+freedom+ireland&source=web&ots=6SmjGvWASm&sig=I1y9YvCXh13R1vFJrPHFZr_FdS4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPA98,M1
"...and that for the foreseeable futue there be no institutional transfers into the University sector."
Rare i would support Government inaction on an issue but between the experts in the OECD, limited 3rd level funding as is and the political pandoras box a WIT upgrade would bring then it seems unlikely for the foreseeable future.
Here we go, I see we're in for the usual feast of ignorance and belligerence.
Wounded pride has got nothing to do with anything. The WIT has difficultly starting arts courses and various other courses that do not have an industrial focus because of the IT remit. It's research agenda is actively hampered, despite the trojan work that is going on on the ground and the great strides that have been made (e.g. the independent article posted). Levels of recurrent funding are also very poor, and do not reflect the fact that the WIT is operating on a higher level than all of the ITs except Cork and Dublin.
The socioeconomic impacts of not having a university in the south east cannot be understated. Figures can readily be found to illustrate the relative decline of the SE economy relative to other regions. Waterford and the SE has been propping up other regions with talent and cash (rents and fees paid) for years.
As for the recommendations you cite, they have not all been implemented. Ultimately, the best way to implement them is to upgrade WIT. The OECD report you cite is out of date and quite obviously most people on here disagree with parts of it, such as the part about "no institutional transfers into the University sector". The more recent government commissioned Port report is far more receptive to a WIT upgrade, and is the report that the government is current considering. This report is pretty unambiguous about WIT's "mature academic profile", which is consistent with university level institutions. The remit of this report was highly restricted due to the government mandate that Port work within government policy, which at that time was aligned with the OECD report. Clearly we are looking for a change in government policy.
As the only large region currently without a university, an upgrade of the WIT alone is not only justified but logical.0 -
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Id love to know what other campus in the south east could potentially be upgraded instead of WIT. Obviously, such a campus would need to be as big and offer the same services (if not more).
Btw, WIT Students probably already know about the recent campaign by the colleges Young Fine Gael branch to get a petition together to urge the government to act on this and grant University Status. An online version of the campaign has just been launched less then an hour ago. Those who have not signed it (its open to everybody, not just students) are free to now sign the online version;
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/yfguni/petition.html
The above will be printed on completion (not sure when) and merged with the already printed version floating around the college at the moment. If you have signed the one in the college, then you do not need to add your signature to the above as it is already on this petition.0 -
Id love to know what other campus in the south east could potentially be upgraded instead of WIT. Obviously, such a campus would need to be as big and offer the same services (if not more).
Why does any other option have to be currently as big as WIT? surely size shouldn't be a factor?
this should be about getting the best resource for the south east as possible, not the size of a campus....
this should be about educating the next few generations, and getting the best possible for them.
IMO the UNI status campagin should be behind the best IT, the one that is doing the best for it students and R&D as well..... not the biggest, not well its in waterford and we need one here.
as merlante point out a UNI is a public body and therefore it should be set up to benifit the public in the best possible way.0 -
I understand the independent reports commissioned have stated that Waterford does not need a university and the academic standard is not good enough to warrant university status.
It concluded that funding should concentrate on the existing universities.
It seems that Waterford wants a university just for the sake of it..whats wrong witht the current arrangement? Does WIT consider itself superior to other ITs?0 -
Why does any other option have to be currently as big as WIT? surely size shouldn't be a factor?
this should be about getting the best resource for the south east as possible, not the size of a campus....
this should be about educating the next few generations, and getting the best possible for them.
IMO the UNI status campagin should be behind the best IT, the one that is doing the best for it students and R&D as well..... not the biggest, not well its in waterford and we need one here.
as merlante point out a UNI is a public body and therefore it should be set up to benifit the public in the best possible way.
There is a view out there that Waterford IT should be left alone and a university should be built on a green field site. This would be consistent with the other regions and regional cities (Cork, Limerick and Galway), which have a university and an IT. However, the political reality is that this green field university will not happen. What could and should happen, however, is an upgrade of an IT that is operating at or close to university level.
In the south east, WIT is by far the largest institution. It has 4 times the staff numbers (2.5 the student numbers according to wikipedia) of Carlow IT and 8 times that of Tipperary Institute. It was the first RTC to be upgraded to IT status, the first (of the ex-RTCs) to accredit degrees, the first to award phds, the first to apply for university status, and the only ex-RTC to have a report published in consideration of its upgrade. It's also the largest recipient of EC project funding in Ireland and eighth largest in Europe (TSSGs success story).
It's also in Waterford, which is by far the largest centre in the SE, and has the best road and rail infrastructure in the region. You also have 26% of the population of the region (460K) within 30 mins. Where else would you put a university?0 -
Didn't the port report conclude with that while WIT was operating above the standard of an IT that the government should focus more on the current universities?0
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Here we go, I see we're in for the usual feast of ignorance and belligerence.
Because there was none of that in this thread before i came right?.Wounded pride has got nothing to do with anything. The WIT has difficultly starting arts courses and various other courses that do not have an industrial focus because of the IT remit. It's research agenda is actively hampered, despite the trojan work that is going on on the ground and the great strides that have been made (e.g. the independent article posted). Levels of recurrent funding are also very poor, and do not reflect the fact that the WIT is operating on a higher level than all of the ITs except Cork and Dublin.
Why should WIT have Arts courses when there is an excess of arts places elsewhere?, if there is one discipline that Irish Universities have in abundance its Arts. one of the recommendations of the OECD reports is that there should not be a duplication of courses already offered elsewhere.The socioeconomic impacts of not having a university in the south east cannot be understated. Figures can readily be found to illustrate the relative decline of the SE economy relative to other regions. Waterford and the SE has been propping up other regions with talent and cash (rents and fees paid) for years.
What regions has Waterford being propping up with talent and cash for years?. And what figures do you use to illustrate the "relative decline' of the SE economy compared to other regions?. Can i see them?.As for the recommendations you cite, they have not all been implemented. Ultimately, the best way to implement them is to upgrade WIT. The OECD report you cite is out of date and quite obviously most people on here disagree with parts of it, such as the part about "no institutional transfers into the University sector". The more recent government commissioned Port report is far more receptive to a WIT upgrade, and is the report that the government is current considering. This report is pretty unambiguous about WIT's "mature academic profile", which is consistent with university level institutions. The remit of this report was highly restricted due to the government mandate that Port work within government policy, which at that time was aligned with the OECD report. Clearly we are looking for a change in government policy.
I'm confused, the OECD recommendations you say have not been implemented, but then you say the best way to implement them is to upgrade WIT(even though this goes against the OECDs recommendations), then you say the report is out of date (2006?). Fair enough you admit that you are in fact looking for a change in Government policy. But surely you acknowledge that everything points towards consolidation in the Irish tertiary sector not expansion?.As the only large region currently without a university, an upgrade of the WIT alone is not only justified but logical.
Your opinion of course.0 -
There is a view out there that Waterford IT should be left alone and a university should be built on a green field site. This would be consistent with the other regions and regional cities (Cork, Limerick and Galway), which have a university and an IT. However, the political reality is that this green field university will not happen. What could and should happen, however, is an upgrade of an IT that is operating at or close to university level.
In the south east, WIT is by far the largest institution. It has 4 times the staff numbers (2.5 the student numbers according to wikipedia) of Carlow IT and 8 times that of Tipperary Institute. It was the first RTC to be upgraded to IT status, the first (of the ex-RTCs) to accredit degrees, the first to award phds, the first to apply for university status, and the only ex-RTC to have a report published in consideration of its upgrade. It's also the largest recipient of EC project funding in Ireland and eighth largest in Europe (TSSGs success story).
It's also in Waterford, which is by far the largest centre in the SE, and has the best road and rail infrastructure in the region. You also have 26% of the population of the region (460K) within 30 mins. Where else would you put a university?
and still the point remains, size is not the question here, but as a public body it should be delivering the best service to the people, if WIT is not the best in the southeast, it shouldn't get it....
no offense, but this attitude is why this country is partly in recession, lets throw money at it and hope it works, sure who cares if the public who are funding this don't get the best possible benifit... and if it goes tits up, we will find some scape goat to blame...
we need to get it right from the start...0 -
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invincibleirish wrote: »Why should WIT have Arts courses when there is an excess of arts places elsewhere?, if there is one discipline that Irish Universities have in abundance its Arts. one of the recommendations of the OECD reports is that there should not be a duplication of courses already offered elsewhere.
Show me evidence that there is an excess of Arts courses elsewhere. The Faculty of Humanities in the WIT is one of the fastest growing areas of the WIT. There is no competition at all within the region so this is not surprising. You seem to forget that it is not affordable or convenient for many people to uproot and move to another city to study, now more than ever. Nor should they have to when other (some less populated) regions have universities in situ.
The proliferation of engineering courses, which is perfectly in line with the IT remit, makes far less financial sense, since the cost per student is far higher. Arts courses are relatively low cost to provide, but because of the arbitrary restrictions of the IT remit, they are difficult to progress in Waterford.
Far better would be get rid of the barriers and let institutes compete on a level playing field.invincibleirish wrote: »What regions has Waterford being propping up with talent and cash for years?. And what figures do you use to illustrate the "relative decline' of the SE economy compared to other regions?. Can i see them?.
Simply examine the student numbers studying in each of the four regional cities. You'll find that double or treble the numbers studying in Cork, Limerick and Galway as Waterford. Students from Waterford are studying in these locations, bolstering those local economies with cash in the form of rents, fees, expenditure, and later on in the form of talent, since may graduates do not come back. According to BOI (http://www.bankofireland.ie/html/gws/students/third_level/manage_finances/index.html), Waterford students/parents are also paying 333 euros more to study away from home than at home. This adds up to a tax on 3rd level education for Waterford students who have to travel to find courses and a large scale transfer of wealth and talent to other regions.
The Goodbody report (http://www.waterfordchamber.com/images/stories/documents/goodbody_report.pdf) highlights the economic impact of having or not having a university in the region. It was commissioned by Waterford Chamber of Commerce, but I dare say everything can be backed up by the CSO, where more up to date statistics can be found.invincibleirish wrote: »I'm confused, the OECD recommendations you say have not been implemented, but then you say the best way to implement them is to upgrade WIT(even though this goes against the OECDs recommendations), then you say the report is out of date (2006?). Fair enough you admit that you are in fact looking for a change in Government policy. But surely you acknowledge that everything points towards consolidation in the Irish tertiary sector not expansion?.
Read the Port report, which is currently under consideration by the government: http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/application_waterford_iot_designation_university.pdf, particularly under "Constraints to development in IoTs".
The OECD report you cite originally came work done in 2003. I can remember when that report came out (read the foreword). Most of the recommendations are good, including maintaining the distinct missions of IoTs and universities. The recommendation that we disagree with is that there should be no further movements into the university sector. Clearly, we believe that there should be one more entrant into that sector. The south east wants parity and it wants to compete on a level playing field with other regions.
I don't think that everything points to consolidation in the university sector. Or at least, we can have consolidation, but Waterford needs to be providing 1st tier education in Ireland with no more restrictions than anywhere else. The Times High Education review 2008 (http://www.topuniversities.com/worlduniversityrankings/results/2008/safe/) gives Ireland higher score in the 'Flagship' rating than any other area, including 'Economy' and 'Access'. We have two universities in the top 200, one in the top 50. The argument about Ireland needed more 'world class' universities' is a red herring. What we need is an overall increase in 3rd level education spend, and -- imho -- an upgrade of the WIT to provide the last entrant into the university sector, to provide parity and to provide the most logical spread of universities across the country.0
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