Class reps council (split from "official bitch about..." thread)

Funkstard

Class Reps council...dislike the cliqueyness of it all.

bluedolphin

Funkstard wrote: »

Class Reps council...dislike the cliqueyness of it all.

explain... i'll bring your concern to the exec on your behalf if you want.

klong

bluedolphin wrote: »

explain... i'll bring your concern to the exec on your behalf if you want.

I think I understand where Funkstard is coming from. I was a regular attender at CRC last year, wasn't able to make any meetings last semester and this semester...don't know if I'll go. As a final year student I think its a bit pointless, and my class were never interested in the subjects raised at CRC when I emailed them updates (bar once, regarding anonymous marking, and that was just one student).

I don't think its an intentional state of affairs. Maybe its because (from my experience) it was always the same people speaking time after time. Perhaps its more an air of cliqueness (or however you spell it!) than it being an actual clique. People who are truly interested in SU politics will go to everything, protests, petitions, whatever. But the vast majority of class reps are there for the certificate and the hoody. Last year, the biggest attendances were (1) the night the hoodies were given out, and (2) when the certificates were being distributed.

(I also think this would be an interesting topic of its own- any chance mods?)

Funkstard

Not something that needs to be raised with the exec.

Just don't like seeing certain officers thinking they should be able to speak before others because of their position, happened a few times last night. That whole 'in' corner of the room (don't take that the wrong way, just an easy way to label what group I'm on about) certainly gives off an air of cliqueyness, and I'd imagine certainly prevents more casual attendants from voicing their opinions or participating more for fear of being ridiculed, or at the very least subject to eyes-raised-to-heaven-ness that also happened last night.

sceptre

klong wrote: »

Last year, the biggest attendances were (1) the night the hoodies were given out, and (2) when the certificates were being distributed.

You're right and you're wrong on the latter one. There was a crowd there at the cert handing-out but the meeting after wasn't quorate. So the two or three quorate meetings (all at the start of the year) were better attended. On the whole, I reckon you're totally correct though.

(I also think this would be an interesting topic of its own- any chance mods?)

Sure, let's split it off. Worthy of a chat in general, whether it gets specific or not.

Thread split. Went for the uncreative title of "Class reps council" I'm afraid.

ergonomics

That whole 'in' corner of the room (don't take that the wrong way, just an easy way to label what group I'm on about) certainly gives off an air of cliqueyness,

I can see where you're coming from, but this is the way I see it. The people who sit in the corner are there for a reason. They are the Sabbatical Officers,the Faculty Officers, the 1st Year Rep and Clubs & Socs Officers. The reason they all sit in that corner is because they have to get up regularly to speak, make reports, and answer questions from Council. It would make the whole thing more awkward if they were scattered all over the place as, when they needed to talk, they would be clambering over other people to get down to the front. It would waste time and would be disruptive to Councik. I also think it makes it easier for Class Reps to approach an officer after Council as they know where they will be sitting. If they were seated willy-nilly it might be harder to recognise them and find them.

Just don't like seeing certain officers thinking they should be able to speak before others because of their position, happened a few times last night.

I do agree with you on this point. Last night, when it came to Officer Reports, people were just standing up to speak when they felt like it. There is a set order for giving reports and for whatever reason it wasn't followed last night.

I'd imagine certainly prevents more casual attendants from voicing their opinions or participating more for fear of being ridiculed, or at the very least subject to eyes-raised-to-heaven-ness that also happened last night.

I don't think anyone has ever been ridiculed in my experience at CRC. Last night someone brought up the issue of Fees and in response a number of people groaned and comments were made about 'opening a can of worms'. The Fees issue has been beaten to death at Class Reps and it wasn't just the 'cliquey' people who rolled their eyes when it was brought up again, all of Council felt the same way. Every week Fees is brought up and every week it just goes around in circles. The 'eyes-raised-to-heaven-ness' was a collective response from the group that no one wanted to go over that topic again.

klong

sceptre wrote: »

You're right and you're wrong on the latter one. There was a crowd there at the cert handing-out but the meeting after wasn't quorate. So the two or three quorate meetings (all at the start of the year) were better attended. On the whole, I reckon you're totally correct though.


Sure, let's split it off. Worthy of a chat in general, whether it gets specific or not.

Thread split. Went for the uncreative title of "Class reps council" I'm afraid.

My memory is a bit fuzzy so I take you're word for it

Thanks for the new thread.

From having a quick browse on the TCD forum they seem to have problems regards class reps. Don't know if they have a council though.
If I may float a kite here...is CRC really necessary? From my experience last year, (1) same people speak the vast majority of the time, (2) SU officers were busy with other things and usually 2 or 3 would be missing, (3) CRC membership is simply used to beef up a CV. I'm sure there are others. I think the vast majority of students see it as some mythical, far-off being. Class reps don't attend, so classmates don't know what happens. People don't know what goes on, SU suffers as a result. Vicious circle? Perhaps An Focal could have a regular column with CRC news?

I'm sure I could elaborate but I'd like to hear some responses first...:cool:

DJCR

Righto.... I'm gonna comment one piece at a time like Ergo!:D:D:D

klong wrote: »

My class were never interested in the subjects raised at CRC when I emailed them updates (bar once, regarding anonymous marking, and that was just one student).

While this may be true for a few classes this is not always true... think, Nurses and Teachers. My own class discussed the issue of extra curricular activities being recognised on there degree.
In my opinion the issues have to be brought to ground level... ie. how will this decision affect the class. Fees being an extreemly obvious example... if you stood up at the front of your class and asked "who has a spare 6 Grand to finnish college, I guarentee you would se a small number of hands go up.

klong wrote: »

Maybe its because (from my experience) it was always the same people speaking time after time.

I'm delighted to say that I would have agreed with you a month ago. However, after Class Reps Training there were alot more speakers at the last CRC.

It may also seem like the same people are talking all the time but at the end of the day (ie. the "in" corner) they are the ones who have the information to answer the questions... more on that later.

Funkstard wrote: »

That whole 'in' corner of the room certainly gives off an air of cliqueyness.

I'm sure that this isn't intentional but remember that they do work with each other from 9 - 5.... sometimes more. They discuss all these issues a few times a week so their confidence on speaking on the issues is well founded..... maybe this is what gives off the air of cliqueyness + isn't a unified exec a good thing?:D:D:D

Funkstard wrote: »

I'd imagine certainly prevents more casual attendants from voicing their opinions or participating more for fear of being ridiculed

Just reinforcing what Ergo said .... I've been at Council for 3 years now and I've never seen it happen.

ergonomics wrote: »

I do agree with you on this point. Last night, when it came to Officer Reports, people were just standing up to speak when they felt like it. There is a set order for giving reports and for whatever reason it wasn't followed last night.

Ya, true, that was my bad .... I got a little mixed up :o:o:o

klong wrote: »

From having a quick browse on the TCD forum they seem to have problems regards class reps. Don't know if they have a council though.
If I may float a kite here...is CRC really necessary?

Absolutely, both as representatives to their class and Constitutionally as class reps hold all the power. For more info on this, ask and I'll send you the relevant info.

klong wrote: »

(2) SU officers were busy with other things and usually 2 or 3 would be missing

I honestly think there has been good attendance from the Officers this year!! Above 90% I'd say!

klong wrote: »

(3) Perhaps An Focal could have a regular column with CRC news?

Thats a great idea!!! Print a smaller version of the minutes!!:cool::cool::cool:

Hope this helps a little........

klong

What would you say about Class Reps simply there as a way of beefing up a CV?
I'm sure it looks good and all, but if asked about it, I don't think many people would be able to give an honest answer if questioned about it in an interview!

"Perhaps An Focal could have a regular column with CRC news?"
As we all know, bluedolphin is always screaming out for content. Surely the CRC secretary could do a small piece, 150-200 words for each An Focal?

As for my kite flying...as DJCR says, class reps hold all the power. Its a shame then that so few class reps show up (I include myself here). So few class reps = a lot less power. I was never able to make the training weekends as there was something or other else I had to attend. Could it be made compulsory? Tie it in with getting the hoody and cert at the end of the year?

DJCR

klong wrote: »

As for my kite flying...as DJCR says, class reps hold all the power. Its a shame then that so few class reps show up (I include myself here). So few class reps = a lot less power.

Well .... being pedantic that isn't actually true.......... Class Reps still hold the power, its just that there will be a lack of quality of decision due to a deficiancy in discussion and a lack of other ideas.

Well it all comes down to it ...... Class Reps Rule!!:D:D:D:D

ergonomics

klong wrote: »

Could it be made compulsory? Tie it in with getting the hoody and cert at the end of the year?

Class Reps who had missed two or more meetings without apologies were warned this week that if they didn't attend Council on Tuesday they would be deemed resigned which means no hoody and no cert. AFAIK, but I'm probably wrong cause the decision keeps getting changed, any Rep who had missed two meetings but came on Tuesday will be deemed resigned if they miss even one additional meeting. So CRC attendance is compulsory, it just wasn't enforced until this week.

As far an article in the paper, it would definitely be a good idea as it would make the whole Council process much more accessible to the student body. Maybe you should raise the issue during the next CRC :P

klong

ergonomics wrote: »

Class Reps who had missed two or more meetings without apologies were warned this week that if they didn't attend Council on Tuesday they would be deemed resigned which means no hoody and no cert. AFAIK, but I'm probably wrong cause the decision keeps getting changed, any Rep who had missed two meetings but came on Tuesday will be deemed resigned if they miss even one additional meeting. So CRC attendance is compulsory, it just wasn't enforced until this week.

As far an article in the paper, it would definitely be a good idea as it would make the whole Council process much more accessible to the student body. Maybe you should raise the issue during the next CRC :P

I wouldn't have known that unless you mentioned it here. Perhaps a general email? Ok, that might have been done already...

How and ever, while good in practice it is a little ridiculous. Miss all meetings this year, turn up on Tuesday but miss even one more and you're kicked off? :eek: So I may as well not bother showing up this semester at this rate.

ergonomics

So you think Class Reps attendance should be made compulsory, but you don't agree with people being deemed resigned if they don't turn up?

What do you suggest?

klong

ergonomics wrote: »

So you think Class Reps attendance should be made compulsory, but you don't agree with people being deemed resigned if they don't turn up?

What do you suggest?

This is part of the problem with message boards, can't seem to get my point across properly!

Yes, I think Class Reps attendance should be promoted. What I would suggest is perhaps a compulsory 75% attendance at meetings for each rep, following which they would be eligible for the hoody and cert. The problem I have for the "solution" there seems to be now is that, if people miss one meeting, for whatever reason, they're gone. Was there a communication about this new plan sent out?

People might be deemed resigned if they don't show up- but what is there to stop them going for re-election once again? (One reason why I wouldn't be running for an SU position- don't know the ins and outs of everything!)

Polar Ice

Class reps:

Relationship status: It's Complicated.

Group Type: This is a closed group. Members must be invited or approved by an admin.

DJCR

Polar Ice wrote: »

Class reps:
Relationship status: It's Complicated.

Honestly its not complicatd at all.

If you can't make a meeting send apologies.... you don't even have to give a reason and you won't be deemed resigned if you miss all the meetings (as is the case with co-op students).
Its just courtesy...... same as any company that you will work in!

Polar Ice wrote: »

Group Type: This is a closed group. Members must be invited or approved by an admin.

Closed group: nope.... its open to anyone..... even if your not a class rep you can go to CRC.

Members must be invited: True...... everyones invited though as you are a member of the ULSU as soon as you become a student in UL + as I've already said ... the more the better.

Approved by admin: Also true ...... Admin in this case being your class that your elected from.

Honestly all it takes to become a Class Rep..... is to show some interest!! Problem is, not a lot of new people show interest, and as it was earlier stated ... those who have previously shown intrest tend to carry on in their roles throughout their 4 years.... generally because they are doing a good job... if ot their class would elect another!!!

The ULSU is open to everyone...... I think a serious PR job needs to be done as there is obvious hostility towards Class Reps and the organisation in general.

It is good to here other peoples views on the subject ......... maybe, this issue should be highlighted further as was previously asked!!

Its just a shame to here that people feel they can't get involved which is exactly what the ULSU is all about!!

(General Question to everyone) How do you feel we can change this?

klong

I think the general issue of apathy is worthy of serious research by the SU. I've been in UL now 6 years and I don't remember it NOT being an issue, eg. there was an anti-fees march semester 1 07 attended by all the Limerick 3rd level institutions; UL had the smallest turnout. I also think you'll get far more useful replies here than on the ULSU forums (if they still work). Reason being, there is a larger representation of the UL student population here than on the ULSU forums, in my experience of it.

In relation to CRC and apologies...easily open to abuse. I haven't been to CRC all year, for a number of reasons. All I have to do from now on is send apologies each week and I won't get sacked? Secondly, attendance from now on is considered vital if people want to get their certificates. What's to stop people walkting up to the sign-in, submitting their name, and then walking out again? Alternatively, reps could sign in, walk inside and open a book for 45 minutes or whatever. The point here is that there is no requirement for reps to participate. In the UK, there is a website called They Work For You (www.theyworkforyou.com) Constitutients can research the work of their MPs, MLAs, whatever, see how many times they spoke, on what issues, etc. Is it a bit extreme to suggest something similar for ULSU?

edit: I think something that is weakening the SU is letting people appear on a variety of committees, wearing a number of hats so to speak. What happens is that experience is gathered together in a relatively small group of people. If you restrict this ability, then more people can gain experience of the workings of the institution. Of course the thing is, if people don't want to sit on committees etc, then what do you do? Perhaps have different certs for class reps who participate more?

edit: Do you really think, DJCR, that there is "hostility" towards ULSU and class reps? From reading other message boards (eg UCC and UCD) ULSU doesn't get the hostility their SUs get- perhaps its because ULSU is less obviously political which, in my opinion, is a good thing- concentrate on student issues and student issues alone.

DJCR

klong wrote: »

In relation to CRC and apologies...easily open to abuse.

Yes it is, but we are a student Union ..... not the Dail, not the european parliment..... what do you want us to do .... goosestep class reps into CRC!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

klong wrote: »

I haven't been to CRC all year, for a number of reasons. All I have to do from now on is send apologies each week and I won't get sacked?

Nope your already "Sacked".... sorry:(:(:(

klong wrote: »

What's to stop people walkting up to the sign-in, submitting their name, and then walking out again? Alternatively, reps could sign in, walk inside and open a book for 45 minutes or whatever. The point here is that there is no requirement for reps to participate.

Nothing ..... I suppose we could call in the ULSU MP (if it existed) to stop people leaving and force them to speak !!!:D:D

klong wrote: »

In the UK, there is a website called They Work For You (www.theyworkforyou.com) Constitutients can research the work of their MPs, MLAs, whatever, see how many times they spoke, on what issues, etc. Is it a bit extreme to suggest something similar for ULSU?

A sort of "name and shame" the class reps who say nothing system...... remember that they are volunteers elected by their class...... they are also individual students...... not backed by major political parties.... they have to got to college to + blah blah blah .... not paid etc etc etc

klong wrote: »

Do you really think, DJCR, that there is "hostility" towards ULSU and class reps? From reading other message boards (eg UCC and UCD) ULSU doesn't get the hostility their SUs get - perhaps its because ULSU is less obviously political which, in my opinion, is a good thing - concentrate on student issues and student issues alone.

"Hostility" was the wrong word but i think you are being pedantic. The others to which are USI led Su's therfore they are assholes (ish...... cause we are effectively all on the same team)!!!

klong

Hey now! That was a reply worthy of Margaret Thatcher ("Out...Out...Out")!

The point I'm trying to make...CRC isn't working insofar as people don't know what it does. What would you suggest to make things better?

I think you need to explain the "hostility" comment...wasn't trying to be pedantic (a label I gave to CRC the first few times I showed up, by the way)

sceptre

DJCR wrote: »

The others to which are USI led Su's therfore they are assholes (ish...... cause we are effectively all on the same team)!!!

They're not USI-led SUs. They're SUs that happen to be members of USI. I'm not a fan of USI, never have been, but the other part of the comment I've quoted is just asinine.

boogyboogy

well I know that the majority of our class want nothing to do with the class reps as they are a pain in the @rse and come across as the biggest a$$ kissers around....in fact I hear they wipe thier noses with toilet paper:pac:, Haven't organised a class party in years either dosn't help their popularity

klong

boogyboogy wrote: »

well I know that the majority of our class want nothing to do with the class reps as they are a pain in the @rse and come across as the biggest a$$ kissers around....in fact I hear they wipe thier noses with toilet paper:pac:, Haven't organised a class party in years either dosn't help their popularity

Why should the class reps have to organise a class party? Business class...surely some of ye can use your entrepreneurial skills, organise one, and make a profit? :cool:

bluedolphin

I will get around to responding to this over the weekend as a current sabbat... Haven't been dodging this thread, just been incredibly busy this week.

Aoife (Communications Officer)

Polar Ice

klong wrote: »

Why should the class reps have to organise a class party? Business class...surely some of ye can use your entrepreneurial skills, organise one, and make a profit? :cool:

The problem is a lot of students think class reps=organise hoodies and parties.

@DJCR
Great job on expanding on the points I didn't make
Now if only we could compare CRC to another social network

dyl10

That Socialist Youth must be the biggest clique of retards I've ever seen.

kaimera

bluedolphin wrote: »

I will get around to responding to this over the weekend as a current sabbat... Haven't been dodging this thread, just been incredibly busy this week.

Aoife (Communications Officer)

busy? :pac:

bluedolphin

kaimera wrote: »

busy? :pac:

Yes. It was a putting-the-paper-together week, plus doing all the prep work for the UGM next week too. :pac:

DJCR

sceptre wrote: »

asinine

OK ... nice word... but in the nature of the post I made I was being a bit, how would you say, Frank, like say Margaret Thatcher :D:D:D:D

You know we don't have the answers for everything.... when we ask for a bit of help on the issue... we get more Q's and asked to answer them!! :(:(

What do you guys want like!!:D:D:D:D

ninty9er

DJCR wrote: »

My own class discussed the issue of extra curricular activities being recognised on there degree.
In my opinion the issues have to be brought to ground level... ie. how will this decision affect the class. Fees being an extreemly obvious example... if you stood up at the front of your class and asked "who has a spare 6 Grand to finnish college, I guarentee you would se a small number of hands go up.

Never got an email about it. The only people I've seen push this convincingly are Paddy Pratt and Alan Higgins and the students who participated in the pilot scheme. Others have nodded inn its direction, but only those 2 have come to C&S Executive with updates on the issue during their terms.

DJCR wrote: »

Absolutely, both as representatives to their class and Constitutionally as class reps hold all the power. For more info on this, ask and I'll send you the relevant info.

Technically the Students hold all the power.

Since attendance is so poor, why not just have CRC twice per semester, or even better, hold general meetings twice per semester, they already supercede CRC.

If I can't attend CRC, how do my class or I know that our rep is representing the views we give and not
a)their own
b)what the Union wants to hear....a major criticism I'd have of CRC.

DJCR

ninty9er wrote: »

Never got an email about it. The only people I've seen push this convincingly are Paddy Pratt and Alan Higgins and the students who participated in the pilot scheme..

Your not in LM052... although thats not an excuse... someone should have been pushing it in your direction + I was in the Education Working Group when Alan higgins proposed it in his 1st year as Education Officer... so i was participating... hence I was chatting to my class about it. It was back in second year when I started into it with Alan and we wern't divided ionto our majors at that stage so it was still LM050, LM051, Lm052 etc etc etc

ninty9er wrote: »

Technically the Students hold all the power.

Not technically ... It's completely true!! However, the whole student body only meets twice a year!! Thats like saying the People of Ireland hold all the power and we should all meet twice a year to dictate the future of the country... what happens in the mean time... whats the Dail for??

ninty9er wrote: »

If I can't attend CRC, how do my class or I know that our rep is representing the views we give and not
a)their own
b)what the Union wants to hear....a major criticism I'd have of CRC.

Well the whole thing about being a class representative is to represent your class.... If you have trust issues with your class rep well then vote for someone else.... + if you spoke to your class rep on issues or just in general you would kinow whats going on and how they stand on those issues... Attendance is also taken so they can find out back asking the Education Officer.

I would like an example of B + what does the "Union" want to hear?? The Union represents the students so if you don't agree with whats going on, its the class reps job to say what the students want and put it in the right direction... or of course have your say at the AGM on Tuesday!:)

bluedolphin

DJCR wrote: »

..................AGM on Tuesday!:)

AAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!

NO!!!
It's the UGM on WEDNESDAY!

2pm, Jean Monnet! :pac: