Prioritise spending

sinnerboy

One depressing thought to all self builders - UK market research indicates that on average kitchens and bathrooms get re modeled every 15 years . I don't know what the stats are on floor coverings but I would guess you would see a similar frequency

Sooooo ... invest your spends on insulation , air tightness , best windows you can afford etc . You will live with those for 30+ years and more .

Even wiser is to invest about half what you may expect to spend on decorating your house ( 20-25K ) on expert professional guidance .

Don't divert limited funds towards the shiny pretty things that you will be skipping in 10~15 years time . Granite worktops , travertine floors , slinky shower heads . All bound for the skip . Picture that .

And prioritise your investment decisions

sunnysoutheast

It's not depressing at all and is a misapplication of a statistic. Surely this depends on whether you plan to stay in the house or not? The average is meaningless as there are two polar options - either the "dream" house which stays the way it is for years or the remodelling of a 2nd hand property. Many houses/flats will have been sold three/four times or more in 15 years.

Taking the cynical view if you plan to sell you should prioritise your spend on the baubles to get a sale. No point spending money on things a potential buyer can't see (BER regulations notwithstanding).

Even if you are going to throw it out then a 15 year lifespan isn't bad for a 20k kitchen. You may well spend three times that on cars in the same timeframe.

"Expert professional guidance" can often leave a lot to be desired too.

SSE

sinnerboy

I am talking to those who are building their "last" home . I may be wrong but i think many posters here would fit that category .

A different logic will apply to those who build to sell as you correctly point out Which is why many self build I believe

Let me put it this way - when the budget apportionments have to made - set the bias towards the building fabric and quality . Settle for a €10k kitchen in favour of increased insulation . Or air tightness / HRV which will continue to benefit you long after the first kitchen re fit

dunie001

Very good point sinnerboy!

I just want to add some points:

Most people forget (and it seems daft) that once the exterior walls are built and the windows are installed it becomes extremely difficult and expensive later on to install extra insulation to the building fabric.
e.g. walls and the floors...once the concrete/mortar sets in place there's no going back...so alway make damn sure you've put a hell of a lot of insulation, vapour barriers etc into the floors and walls from the beginning.

As for attics, it's very easy to add additional insulation later, but you should always put as much money as you can into the building fabric...kitchens can be change and modified later, but the walls and floors of your house cannot.

remember this!

You can't just turn around once the house is finished and say something like "oh, i think we should put more insulation in the floor and buy a cheaper kitchen"...TOO LATE!!!

1922

i agree with this....the cost of installing good insulation now will pay for itself in the long run. i'm in the middle of considering insulation and heating systems...at the moment i've decided on airtightness with HRV, insulation with inner leaf insulated and the interior insulated. heating system of an insert stove in one room and either ofch or air to water......thing is if i go for ofch i reckon i'll have the house so well insulated my heating bill even with oil will be mimimal

dunie001

what does ofch stand for?

What kind of wall construction is that? Timber frame?

insulation with inner leaf insulated and the interior insulated. heating system of an insert stove in one room and either ofch or air to water......thing is if i go for ofch i reckon i'll have the house so well insulated my heating bill even with oil will be mimimal

Why bother with oil? Get a heat pump installed with underfloor heating and good airtightness as well as loads of insulation everywhere...you'll save a fortune on oil. The least you should do is to design the system so that it can be operated by either an oil boiler or a heat pump.

Who knows what oil prices will be like in 20yrs or if there will be any left! you'd better at least be prepared to change to a heat pump or other alternative fuels...

Don't forget to soundproof your house too...putting a thin sound insulating membrane between the floorboards (if any) and the joists will seriously reduce impact and air sound travel between rooms and floors.

The last thing you would want is for your children to hear all the springs squeeking in the master bedroom in the dead of night!!:eek:

1922

ha havent got kids! but with joists in bwtween floors sound proofing is being looked ffter anyway. I'm still considering a air to water heat pump but wonder about their efficiency...

dunie001

Well I know someone who has an air to water heat pump in their home...and they think it's fantastic.

they run it 24/7 to heat the house via underfloor heating...it's adding approx. €100/month onto the ESB bill. But they are saving a fortune on not burning oil.

I reckon you definitely need a multi-fuel stove as well as the heat pump just to take the strain off the heat pump in the winter...

1922

ya i'm putting a stove in with a back burner anyway....i'd prefer to go with rads instead of ufh though

sinnerboy

You don't have to

If you correctly detail your building with enough insulation and with attention to air tightness . Then install HRV . and forget about oil/gas /ESB for space heating . Take the money you are prepared to spend on a heat pump and employ someone to prepare the documents and implement them on site

Tiny boiler ( or better still wood stove ) for hot water for the winter months only - rest of year - solar thermal panels

dunie001

You're always going to need some form of heat...especially so in the long winter months when outside temperatures go below freezing. No matter how much insulation you have in the house, you're still going to need a space heating system of some description.

I'd recommend a highly efficient stove with back boiler and a small air to air heat pump connected to a HRVU (heat recovery ventilation unit).

The heat pump would be inexpensive to install in conjunction with the ventilation unit to heat the air during autumn and spring. Which would mean you wouldn't need to use the stove.

You should buy a heat pump which can also be reversed, so that you can also pump cold air through the house during the hot summers.

This would mean you wouldn't need any radiators or ufh, just air ducts for the ventilation system. While the stove would heat the main living area which should be made as open plan as possible to avail of all available heat from the stove.

sinnerboy

dunie001 wrote: »

You're always going to need some form of heat...especially so in the long winter months when outside temperatures go below freezing. No matter how much insulation you have in the house, you're still going to need a space heating system of some description.

You need to read this

http://www.sei.ie/Renewables/Solar_Energy/Low_Energy_Buyer's_Guide.pdf

and this

http://www.sei.ie/Renewables/Renewable_Energy_for_the_Homeowner/SEI_Passive_House_A4.pdf

and this - including all downloads

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=55509651&postcount=1

and this ( the paragraph starting "Secondly , ...." )

http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=289&page=1#Item_0

Tell me then that you still recommend a heat pump

sinnerboy

Can we get back on topic now ?

No6

Sinnerboy untill the cost of oil goes back to 150 a barrell people building will start off full of good intentions but when it come down to it they will still spend more on the kitchen, timber floors etc rather than the stuff you can't see like insulation, airtight membranes etc!! Although for some reason around here they love the geo thermal heat pumps (probably because they're the dearest thing going!!!)