So bored of this Us v Them attitude

*Honey*

The Us v Them attitude (private v public sector) that prevails on this board is getting so old and so boring. It's been argued forever and neither side will agree - it's patently obvious to a blind man!

The outcome of this stupid bickering is that the real focus is being lost - our Government has sold us down the river. They dined in the trough with the rest of the fat pigs and we were never invited to that party... however, we're now paying for the bill.

It's time that we ALL, wherever you work, whatever you do, speak up and tell this Government, the ones we voted in to represent us, are NOT doing their job, are NOT representing us and should GO. We all have a voice and we should all direct it at those who have sold us out.

achtungbarry

*Honey* wrote: »

The Us v Them attitude (private v public sector) that prevails on this board is getting so old and so boring. It's been argued forever and neither side will agree - it's patently obvious to a blind man!

The outcome of this stupid bickering is that the real focus is being lost - our Government has sold us down the river. They dined in the trough with the rest of the fat pigs and we were never invited to that party... however, we're now paying for the bill.

It's time that we ALL, wherever you work, whatever you do, speak up and tell this Government, the ones we voted in to represent us, are NOT doing their job, are NOT representing us and should GO. We all have a voice and we should all direct it at those who have sold us out.

+ 1

ParkRunner

I couldn't agree more. We can spend hours and hours analysing civil service pay, private sector bonuses and all the various perks which each sector enjoys but it will get us nowhere!

The government are engaging in a drip-feeding of facts to keep the general public distracted from the sheer incompetent governance and regualtion over the past decade.

An articulate and united single voice could provide the leadership which is desperately required to save this country from becoming a basket case and retain some sort of dignity for those who have worked hard and honestly in the boom times.

bigstar

*Honey* wrote: »

The Us v Them attitude (private v public sector) that prevails on this board is getting so old and so boring. It's been argued forever and neither side will agree - it's patently obvious to a blind man!

The outcome of this stupid bickering is that the real focus is being lost - our Government has sold us down the river. They dined in the trough with the rest of the fat pigs and we were never invited to that party... however, we're now paying for the bill.

It's time that we ALL, wherever you work, whatever you do, speak up and tell this Government, the ones we voted in to represent us, are NOT doing their job, are NOT representing us and should GO. We all have a voice and we should all direct it at those who have sold us out.

+1

galwayrush

The Government would love to keep us divided.:(

*Honey*

galwayrush wrote: »

The Government would love to keep us divided.:(

Then it is up to us not to allow them win. We need to keep focus. Look to the people who are supposed to be representing us. If we want a new Government, we should demand it. They are supposed to represent us - they are not and we should ALL tell them what we think.

This dog eat dog is just painful to watch. It is doing us ALL a dis-service.

Iwasfrozen

I couldn't agree more. We can spend hours and hours analysing civil service pay, private sector bonuses and all the various perks which each sector enjoys but it will get us nowhere!

The government are engaging in a drip-feeding of facts to keep the general public distracted from the sheer incompetent governance and regualtion over the past decade.

An articulate and united single voice could provide the leadership which is desperately required to save this country from becoming a basket case and retain some sort of dignity for those who have worked hard and honestly in the boom times.

And who do we turn to ?
If there were a General Election tomorrow morning who do we vote for ?
Fine Geal/Labour will be the exact same.

eoin5

*Honey* wrote: »

The Us v Them attitude (private v public sector) that prevails on this board is getting so old and so boring. It's been argued forever and neither side will agree - it's patently obvious to a blind man!

The outcome of this stupid bickering is that the real focus is being lost - our Government has sold us down the river. They dined in the trough with the rest of the fat pigs and we were never invited to that party... however, we're now paying for the bill.

It's time that we ALL, wherever you work, whatever you do, speak up and tell this Government, the ones we voted in to represent us, are NOT doing their job, are NOT representing us and should GO. We all have a voice and we should all direct it at those who have sold us out.

So its us vs the government then so. Theres enough duality to suit everyone these days.

Lets link hands with the FAS executives and the big builders in pointing the finger at the government, its all their fault the swines!

CleverUsername

Originally Posted by *Honey*
The Us v Them attitude (private v public sector) that prevails on this board is getting so old and so boring. It's been argued forever and neither side will agree - it's patently obvious to a blind man!

The outcome of this stupid bickering is that the real focus is being lost - our Government has sold us down the river. They dined in the trough with the rest of the fat pigs and we were never invited to that party... however, we're now paying for the bill.

It's time that we ALL, wherever you work, whatever you do, speak up and tell this Government, the ones we voted in to represent us, are NOT doing their job, are NOT representing us and should GO. We all have a voice and we should all direct it at those who have sold us out.

bigstar wrote: »

+1

+1

*Honey*

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

And who do we turn to ?
If there were a General Election tomorrow morning who do we vote for ?
Fine Geal/Labour will be the exact same.

This is a scary truth... I can only speak personally but I will vote for no-one but Labour next time in a the hope that they can do something. No other party will ever receive my vote again. It's depressing that there's little choice and no real leadership ... but Eamon Gilmore has impressed me lately and, to be honest, it takes a lot to impress me these days.

Dannyboy83

*Honey* wrote: »

The Us v Them attitude (private v public sector) that prevails on this board is getting so old and so boring. It's been argued forever and neither side will agree - it's patently obvious to a blind man!

The outcome of this stupid bickering is that the real focus is being lost - our Government has sold us down the river. They dined in the trough with the rest of the fat pigs and we were never invited to that party... however, we're now paying for the bill.

It's time that we ALL, wherever you work, whatever you do, speak up and tell this Government, the ones we voted in to represent us, are NOT doing their job, are NOT representing us and should GO. We all have a voice and we should all direct it at those who have sold us out.

+2 (I showed it to my GF and she agreed, and shes not even Irish):D

*Honey*

eoin5 wrote: »

So its us vs the government then so. Theres enough duality to suit everyone these days.

Lets link hands with the FAS executives and the big builders in pointing the finger at the government, its all their fault the swines!

The way I see it, FAS is a Government agency ... the Government should have had better controls/policies in place to manage their own agencies. If you or I were defrauding our employer, you would look to the employer to resolve the problem - of course, we'd be probably be arrested ourselves which would be only right and I personally believe that if fraud is proven in the case of FAS, then those people who committed that crime should pay for it, just as we would.

The Government has been making money hand over fist from the builders in the last few years too... so don't tell me that there isn't a hand of Government ministers in the scandals of FAS, builders/property developers and the banks.

In time the names of those involved will come out - too late to save peoples' jobs and incomes though and, as ever, nothing will happen to them. That, in itself, is a national disgrace ..... if we allow it to happen without making our voices heard, it's also another national disgrace.

turgon

*Honey* wrote: »

The Us v Them attitude (private v public sector) that prevails on this board is getting so old and so boring.

Yes because you have been here so long...

*Honey*

turgon wrote: »

Yes because you have been here so long...

Hardly applicable. :rolleyes:

keane2097

turgon wrote: »

Yes because you have been here so long...

Yeah those eight months you have on him are great...

Some fúcking people I swear :rolleyes:

atgate

*Honey* you make a lot of sense - u clever

eoin5

*Honey* wrote: »

The way I see it, FAS is a Government agency ... the Government should have had better controls/policies in place to manage their own agencies. If you or I were defrauding our employer, you would look to the employer to resolve the problem - of course, we'd be probably be arrested ourselves which would be only right and I personally believe that if fraud is proven in the case of FAS, then those people who committed that crime should pay for it, just as we would.

The Government has been making money hand over fist from the builders in the last few years too... so don't tell me that there isn't a hand of Government ministers in the scandals of FAS, builders/property developers and the banks.

In time the names of those involved will come out - too late to save peoples' jobs and incomes though and, as ever, nothing will happen to them. That, in itself, is a national disgrace ..... if we allow it to happen without making our voices heard, it's also another national disgrace.

My point is we should stop with the duality (Its the government vs us, its europe vs us etc) and approach things more objectively. It a bad way to rationalise problems and an even worse way to offer solutions.

*Honey*

Eoin, I appreciate that ... however, my point was that our Government, the ones we voted in to represent us, are not doing so... therefore we need to act on that. The public/civil service are voicing their views on Saturday but I feel that we, everyone of us who make up this society, should be voicing our views... that our representatives are NO longer representing us, they are simply not doing their jobs and are out of touch with the real people.

E.T.

Thanks, it's about time someone started a thread like this! The government has been doing a great job so far with their divide and conquer strategy, people need to stop bickering and look at the bigger picture.

Lemming

*Honey* wrote: »

Eoin, I appreciate that ... however, my point was that our Government, the ones we voted in to represent us, are not doing so... therefore we need to act on that. The public/civil service are voicing their views on Saturday but I feel that we, everyone of us who make up this society, should be voicing our views... that our representatives are NO longer representing us, they are simply not doing their jobs and are out of touch with the real people.

Our representatives have not been representing the people for at least 10 years now. The writing regarding the only way the economy was going to end up was on the wall for all to see as far back as 2001 and yet people still collectively voted like pigs at a trough.

To use a familiar saying; "people get the politicians they deserve".

We as a nation brought this on ourselves by supporting inept gombeen chancers and cute hoors time and again and saying "ah shurre fair play to the man, shhhurrre wouldn't you do the same?" It wasn't play and it certainly wasn't fair. And yet as a nation we voted them in again and again despite the glaringly obvious truth staring us in the face.

Someone else on this thread remarked upon a comment by their father when he left for England some decades ago that nothing had changed, and returned and still maintained that nothing had changed. He was right. Maybe a spell of depression will focus the mentality of this nation into actually growing the f*ck up.

Darragh29

galwayrush wrote: »

The Government would love to keep us divided.:(

Sure as long as we are all fighting with each other, we won't be collectively fighting with them... It's that simple I think...

Lemming

Darragh29 wrote: »

Sure as long as we are all fighting with each other, we won't be collectively fighting with them... It's that simple I think...

Just a thought, but I think apportioning blame should be done correctly. The government have been hamfisted and cynical in their approach to this levy, but the main bone of contention with many people outside of the public sector appears to be the message that the public sector unions are portraying to the taxpayer; abdication of responsibility and an unwillingness to do what is conceptually the right and prudent thing.

Divide and conquer? Pfffft, I wouldn't credit the guuubernment with anything so Machiavellian. They're incapable of it.

RiverWilde

US v Them? It's gone way past that.

The old adage power corrupts etc springs to mind. This shower of bastar/ds have been in power in whatever convenient guise for so long now they think they can do whatever they like. The most obnoxious bit is that they've convinced so many people that everyone else is incompetent?!!! How the hell did that happen?

It's like letting a whore convince you that she's the only one qualified to have sex because she gets paid for it!

The sooner these greedy prostitutes are out of office the better.

Riv

*Honey*

I totally agree... this Government is dead in the water, the public don't have any respect or trust in them. The Green's should back out now, I am sick that I voted for them.

Everyone, every worker and all those who've lost their jobs along with their family and friends should be marching tomorrow - to show this Government just what the public thinks of them!!!

BroomBurner

*Honey* wrote: »

I totally agree... this Government is dead in the water, the public don't have any respect or trust in them. The Green's should back out now, I am sick that I voted for them.

Everyone, every worker and all those who've lost their jobs along with their family and friends should be marching tomorrow - to show this Government just what the public things of them!!!

I agree with you about the Greens, they should be showing some backbone right now.

I also voted for them as I have political ideals and they are a party that are based on ideals. Whether anyone agrees/disagrees with these ideals if for another thread. However, if they want me to vote for them again, they must prove that they really are about having ideals and morals and should at the very least threaten FF with leaving government and destabilising them. At least to give them a lesson.

Oh, on a side note, if there are any members of the PSEU on here, could they PM me? I've a quick question about thursday but I don't want to start a new thread or discuss it here.

Sand

To be honest, I just dont want support for the unions on a limited point of principle [ in that the current application of the levy is unfair in that higher paid public servants actually pay less of the pay towards it than lower paid public servants after tax is considered] to be confused with support for the unions objective [ To resist all and any efforts to rein in the unsustainable spending the government has carried out in recent years].

If the social partnership talks have taught us anything it is that the unions are totally unconcerned with Irelands fiscal position, and only concerned with getting as much as they can for themselves alone. Thats fine, but its not a point of view thats going to find broad support.

The current government needs to go as soon as possible, but the idea of Labour actually driving a hard bargain against the unions is laughable. And if the public servants think the 2 billion trimming this year is objectionable, theyre going to have nightmares about the cost cutting thats on the way over the next 3-4 budgets.

We need a government that can face down the unions and force those cuts and job losses through, and Labour [ a likely participant in any alternative government unless Fine Gael somehow grab 45-50% of the seats...] are just too closely connected to the unions to represent the Irish people instead of the unions.

turgon

keane2097 wrote: »

Yeah those eight months you have on him are great...

Some fúcking people I swear :rolleyes:

Well maybe 8 months is what it takes to learn some manners, eh?

And I wasnt on about boards.ie in general, I was on about the way this board in particular had been flooded by new posters giving out about the government, and the days where you could start a random thread about neutrality or something and have a nice discussion with only one or two other posters are gone because it would be swallowed up by the spate of moaning threads.

I wasnt judging Honey based on her longetevity on boards.ie, I was judging her based on her lack of posting in Politics before.

*Honey*

Sand wrote: »

To be honest, I just dont want support for the unions on a limited point of principle [ in that the current application of the levy is unfair in that higher paid public servants actually pay less of the pay towards it than lower paid public servants after tax is considered] to be confused with support for the unions objective [ To resist all and any efforts to rein in the unsustainable spending the government has carried out in recent years].

I disagree totally that the Unions' objective is "to resist all and any efforst to rein in the unsustainable spending the government carried out... ", ICTU have set out a 10 point plan - they want the Government to get back to the table to discuss a plan that is fair for everyone. ICTU has requested that talks are held again so that we are all working together for a fairer future.

http://www.ictu.ie/download/doc/there_is_a_better_fairer_way.doc

*Honey*

turgon wrote: »

Well maybe 8 months is what it takes to learn some manners, eh?

And I wasnt on about boards.ie in general, I was on about the way this board in particular had been flooded by new posters giving out about the government, and the days where you could start a random thread about neutrality or something and have a nice discussion with only one or two other posters are gone because it would be swallowed up by the spate of moaning threads.

I wasnt judging Honey based on her longetevity on boards.ie, I was judging her based on her lack of posting in Politics before.

Turgon, everyone has to start somewhere and better to be interested in the future of this country than not give a damn. I'm assuming you started with a first post once too

NewDubliner

Sand wrote: »

We need a government that can face down the unions and force those cuts and job losses through,

Interesting that you don't mention pouring billions into the banks, nor the huge milstone of the guarantee, nor the huge amounts being spent propping up the construction industry through over-priced and unnecessary 'infrastructure' projects. If you're interested in cost-cutting, you've a very narrow agenda.

Sand

I disagree totally that the Unions' objective is "to resist all and any efforst to rein in the unsustainable spending the government carried out... ", ICTU have set out a 10 point plan - they want the Government to get back to the table to discuss a plan that is fair for everyone. ICTU has requested that talks are held again so that we are all working together for a fairer future.

Ive read the plan, on some points its agreeable [ capping the renumberation of the bankers in the nationalised/recapitalised banks], on others its disagreeable [ it dismisses out of hand the concept of pay cuts, when they are simply a fiscal reality] and in others its just naive [ legal requirement for banks to lend to protect jobs....good money after bad...]. Its very clear the union position to resist government efforts to get spending back under control.

The unions tax and spend solution is a bit odd - taxing an activity tends to discourage it, so raising taxes on economic activity at a time when economic activity is falling [ which even the unions recognise as a problem] seems to be a strange solution. We need to be do everything possible to encourage economic activity.

Interesting that you don't mention pouring billions into the banks, nor the huge milstone of the guarantee, nor the huge amounts being spent propping up the construction industry through over-priced and unnecessary 'infrastructure' projects. If you're interested in cost-cutting, you've a very narrow agenda.

Its a problem that I focused on the different objectives of the public sector unions and the private sector mules paying those unions pay demands? Theres plenty of threads dealing with the issues you mentioned, and I contributed to them, for example Id have been in favour of letting Anglo Irish burn because they deserved to fail and for capitalism to work, then failure needs to be a real possibility for the board. I also questioned the foolishness of the guarantee back in September when there is no prospect of the Irish government actually being able to replace those deposits.

Ill add my views on a selection of hot topics to my signature just so theyre included on every post I make if it helps?