So bored of this Us v Them attitude

ParkRunner

K-9 wrote: »

YEP, Unions wanted to get the same unsustainable incomes.



No they have not. Links?

I think you are letting certain businesses cloud your posts.

PS. Employers have campaigned for cuts in wages. Guess who opposed them?

The unions and the employees opposed them, because the cost of living is still so high. It seems the big businesses and the government are very similar in that they werent prepared to implement the cuts needed during the boom times in order to sustain the economy into the future. The point I am trying to make is that thousands of jobs are being shed unnecessarily because of the unwillingness of the big corporations to impose pay cuts unilaterally.

The public sector is having a pay cut imposed unilaterally and yes it is being resisted, which is to be expected, but the legislation is being drawn up, the pay cuts will happen unilaterally.

The average price of a family home and running that home is still far far in excess of any affordable levels, which makes wage cuts to the required level very very difficult. Once the price of everyday living comes down to realistic levels pay can quite easily be cut and thousands of jobs can be saved!

population

EF wrote: »

The unions and the employees opposed them, because the cost of living is still so high. It seems the big businesses and the government are very similar in that they werent prepared to implement the cuts needed during the boom times in order to sustain the economy into the future. The point I am trying to make is that thousands of jobs are being shed unnecessarily because of the unwillingness of the big corporations to impose pay cuts unilaterally.

The public sector is having a pay cut imposed unilaterally and yes it is being resisted, which is to be expected, but the legislation is being drawn up, the pay cuts will happen unilaterally.

The average price of a family home and running that home is still far far in excess of any affordable levels, which makes wage cuts to the required level very very difficult. Once the price of everyday living comes down to realistic levels pay can quite easily be cut and thousands of jobs can be saved!

+1

In order for the country to survive there has to be a serious re-assessment of what things cost and what they are worth. That initially will be very painful but at least we will find the bottom and start to pick ourselves up.

As for the march, I am torn. If this was an anti govt march I would be there with shiny bells on, but if this is just a march to protest the levy on public sector workers then count me out. The current version of the levy needs to change so as those on the upper echelons pay through the nose and those on lower earnings feel minimal to no impact. I think the Govt will actually do something like that anyway if they are to show any grasp of common sense (admitedly not their strong point) But the reality of benchmarking in the private sector is that you can be benchmarked up or down depending on the circumstances. If the public sector signed up to benchmarking they have to accept this.

And before anyone says that I am not having a go at bankers, builders etc, Anglo should of been allowed fail, all of the crooks names should be published, all of the builders who took out enormous loans should be allowed go to the wall and people need to be infront of a Judge (not a tribunal).

NewDubliner

population wrote: »

If this was an anti govt march I would be there with shiny bells on, but if this is just a march to protest the levy on public sector workers then count me out.

The impression is part of the disinformnation campagn by the oligarchs at IN&M.

It's interesting to see how many 'private-sector is holier than thou' supporters want to kick public sector workers but remain silent when pubvlic sector money is used to bail out failed banks, speculators and builders.

Lemming

NewDubliner wrote: »

The impression is part of the disinformnation campagn by the oligarchs at IN&M.

It's interesting to see how many 'private-sector is holier than thou' supporters want to kick public sector workers but remain silent when pubvlic sector money is used to bail out failed banks, speculators and builders.

Anglo should have been pushed to the wall. All of those speculators and builders should be chased for their loans, the way joe soap public will. Do not take a lack of comment on one area to mean tacit support for it when discussing another issue such as public expenditure. I would question your motive for throwing out such a spurious statement NewDubliner.

population

population wrote: »

+1

And before anyone says that I am not having a go at bankers, builders etc, Anglo should of been allowed fail, all of the crooks names should be published, all of the builders who took out enormous loans should be allowed go to the wall and people need to be infront of a Judge (not a tribunal).

Private sector holier than thou attitude??? If that is what you inferred from my post I am to say the least surprised

K-9

EF wrote: »

The unions and the employees opposed them, because the cost of living is still so high. It seems the big businesses and the government are very similar in that they werent prepared to implement the cuts needed during the boom times in order to sustain the economy into the future. The point I am trying to make is that thousands of jobs are being shed unnecessarily because of the unwillingness of the big corporations to impose pay cuts unilaterally.

The public sector is having a pay cut imposed unilaterally and yes it is being resisted, which is to be expected, but the legislation is being drawn up, the pay cuts will happen unilaterally.

The average price of a family home and running that home is still far far in excess of any affordable levels, which makes wage cuts to the required level very very difficult. Once the price of everyday living comes down to realistic levels pay can quite easily be cut and thousands of jobs can be saved!

Can't disagree with that, but Unions are also to blame.

Black Swan

Time for "V" (the Irish sequel)?

MG

EF wrote: »

The average price of a family home and running that home is still far far in excess of any affordable levels, which makes wage cuts to the required level very very difficult. Once the price of everyday living comes down to realistic levels pay can quite easily be cut and thousands of jobs can be saved!

I would have thought that those particular carts will follow the pay cut horse

r3nu4l

Lemming wrote: »

To use a familiar saying; "people get the politicians they deserve".

We as a nation brought this on ourselves by supporting inept gombeen chancers and cute hoors time and again and saying "ah shurre fair play to the man, shhhurrre wouldn't you do the same?" It wasn't play and it certainly wasn't fair. And yet as a nation we voted them in again and again despite the glaringly obvious truth staring us in the face.

Exactly! it's not just Government. Remember Michael Lowry? The Tribunal concluded that he had evaded tax, he resigned from cabinet in 1996 and John Bruton refused to allow him stand as a Fine Gael candidate in the next election. Yet his constituency still re-elected him as an independent!!

This alone shows the stupidity of the people of Ireland as a whole. We see a guy that takes money from our pockets, is caught, loses his job as a result and yet we say, 'ah sure, he was only doin' what we all would have done, let's put him back in office!'

Now, when times are bad we're all baying for Government blood! Giving out about their cosiness with bankers, developers, raging against the sleaze and corruption. We are collective morons, idiots, fools and we got exactly what we deserved. However, I'm not saying we would have done any better with Fine Gael and Labour, the aforementioned Lowry is an example of that! Nor would other parties have done better.

Part of Ireland's problem is that our parties are too tied up with big businessmen and the I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine mentality. We need politicians who will do what's best for the country and not what's best for their pockets! We need selfless people, unfortunately, we don't have many, even in our minority parties.

*Honey*

AMIIAM wrote: »

Honey, Are you really that THICK???

Rude.

No, I'm not. Far from it.

NewDubliner

Lemming wrote: »

Do not take a lack of comment on one area to mean tacit support for it when discussing another issue such as public expenditure.

The reasons why we're short of money to pay for public services are?

ixoy

NewDubliner wrote: »

The reasons why we're short of money to pay for public services are?

Partially due to the property developers and banks.

Now then: The reason the public sector and civil sector were able to be expanded and paid for over the last few years are also due to that same sector.

DublinWriter

I think the government accidentally made a very strategic move - divide and conquer.

We, as the great unwashed payers of PAYE and PRSI should get over this and move on together, focusing our collective attention on asking the real questions of our elected government, such as why are they protecting a golden circle of ten investors in what is now a publically owned financial institution.

nesf

AMIIAM wrote: »

Honey, Are you really that THICK???

Insulting people on here is a fast way to get yourself banned from here.

irish_bob

DublinWriter wrote: »

I think the government accidentally made a very strategic move - divide and conquer.

We, as the great unwashed payers of PAYE and PRSI should get over this and move on together, focusing our collective attention on asking the real questions of our elected government, such as why are they protecting a golden circle of ten investors in what is now a publically owned financial institution.

ENOUGH

stop parroting this line david begg or mr o connor fed you about how the goverment is encouraging division between public and private sector , im not a glove puppett , the goverment or tony o reilly do not have thier hand up my arse , its extremly patronising top suggest that the reason private sector workers have little sympathy for those in the public sector is down to being misled by others , we in the private sector who deal with the public sector and especially the civil service witness the inneficency and basic lack of cutomer service that charechterises the state sector all the time

this divide and conquer blather is just another banner which the unions are spouting along with WE DIDNT CAUSE THIS MESS and PRIVATE SECTOR CREAMED IT DURING THE BOOM

its obvious that in reality its the public sector workers who are the props in a vintriliquist act , not the private sector wokers

K-9

ixoy wrote: »

Partially due to the property developers and banks.

Now then: The reason the public sector and civil sector were able to be expanded and paid for over the last few years are also due to that same sector.

Very few in the Public Sector will recognise this.

irish_bob

K-9 wrote: »

Very few in the Public Sector will recognise this.

they are willfully ignorant of it