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Are you going to protest tomorrow

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    #62
    seangal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭seangal


    hughs wrote: »
    No I will not be attending. The reality is that we need to dramatically reduce the level of public expenditure, the unions speak a populist rant about taxing the rich but I haven't heard any of them with practical solutions. The government could have gone down the road of sacking civil servants but instead opted for pay cuts. People need to realise that things are going to get a whole lot worse before they get better, expect job losses to hit public service next year, this is just the start of it. Marching through the streets of Dublin with posters and shouting "billions for the banks, pay cuts for workers" while it be a good day out is not going to help things.
    if u want to rant like this there are other post to go to
    we are sick of people like putting the private v public worker
    this is about all irish people protesting about all the issue


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    #63
    seangal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭seangal


    hughs wrote: »
    1 - Renting is not dead money, you get the use of a property for the period you pay the rent. It is amazing and worrying that there are still crazy people out there like you who still believe this. Let's say it's March 2006 and a couple decides they would like to live in a 2 bed apartment in Sandyford, they have the option of renting and paying say approx €1,300 per month or buying a 2 bed apartment in the area for €500K and take out a 100% mortgage. Move forward, it's now Jan 2009, the couple have been lucky to still both be in employment but are in negative equity, their apartment is probably worth at the very most €275K. This is what you call, DEAD MONEY.

    2 - "Had to do it" - who forced them? Please expand? "Parasites" - I don't think you know what word means.
    crap crap
    you buy a house when u are young and working so that you have shelter and security when you get old. it is the best investment u will make in life.
    wait till you are 70 on a small pension and renting and even maybe moving from one house to another u will so regret that statment above


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    #64
    BroomBurner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭BroomBurner


    seangal wrote: »
    crap crap
    you buy a house whne u are young and working so that you have shelter and security when you get old. it is the best investment u will make in life.
    wait till you are 70 on a small pension and renting and even maybe moving from one house to another u will so regret that statment above

    That's actually a very good point.


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    #65
    hughs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭hughs


    seangal wrote: »
    crap crap
    you buy a house when u are young and working so that you have shelter and security when you get old. it is the best investment u will make in life.
    wait till you are 70 on a small pension and renting and even maybe moving from one house to another u will so regret that statment above

    Look - you cannot argue that people who bought in 2006 made "the best investment" when you could buy the same property now for 40% less. I am glad I didnt buy but I dont take any pleasure in seeing people in negatvie equity.


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    #66
    hughs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭hughs


    seangal wrote: »
    if u want to rant like this there are other post to go to
    we are sick of people like putting the private v public worker
    this is about all irish people protesting about all the issue

    As a private worker, I am paying for all this waste. I am likely to have to take a pay cut this year, like a lot of people I know. What do people want?


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    #67
    bobbyjoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 798 ✭✭✭bobbyjoe


    hughs wrote: »
    As a private worker, I am paying for all this waste. I am likely to have to take a pay cut this year, like a lot of people I know. What do people want?

    This is from the flyer for tomorrows march.

    If you’re a worker and taxpayer, it seems like there’s been a party going on
    for the last ten years: a party that you were paying for – but that you weren’t
    invited to. You paid your taxes, stamp duty, PRSI, VAT and interest, and
    others made a fortune. But now the party is over and you’re being asked
    to clean up the mess. Well, it doesn’t have to be this way. On Saturday
    February 21st Congress will hold a national demonstration. Because
    there is a better, fairer way to recovery. For everyone.
    WHAT WE PROPOSE
    • The most urgent priority is to protect jobs and get the unemployed
    working again.
    • Government action on the banks must be determined by what is
    best for the Public Interest and how best to protect peoples’
    homes.
    • Our competitiveness has been damaged by high prices and
    poor infrastructure.
    • Government and Employers are engaged in a Campaign to
    Drive Down Wages, as an alternative to currency devaluation.
    • Forcing Working Families to Pay for the Crisis will cost us Jobs.
    • The wealthy must contribute significantly to restoring the
    Public Finances.
    • The Public Sector Pension Levy is a crude and unfair measure.
    • Private Sector workers must get the pensions they paid for.
    • Government must quickly enact promised Employment Rights
    legislation.
    • A National Recovery Bond will allow people to help build schools,
    health facilities or public transport in their own communities.
    JOIN US ON SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 21 AT 2PM,
    PARNELL SQUARE, DUBLIN.
    IT’S YOUR CHANCE TO ACT!
    Published by Irish Congress of Trade Unions, 31/32 Parnell Square, Dublin 1. www.ictu.ie


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    #68
    yoshytoshy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭yoshytoshy


    Christ that smells of public sector ignorance ,I was under the impression it was a more public & private sector protest .:(


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    #69
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    bobbyjoe wrote: »
    On Saturday
    February 21st Congress will hold a national demonstration.

    Congress?

    Ok I've heard of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU) but their newer and snappier name is now Congress? :confused:


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    #70
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    bobbyjoe wrote: »
    This is from the flyer for tomorrows march.
    [...]
    • Government and Employers are engaged in a Campaign to
    Drive Down Wages, as an alternative to currency devaluation.
    Currency devaluation?


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    #71
    kazzpop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ✭kazzpop


    I am going to march the tomorrow. so is my hubby... What this government is doing to the irish people is unfair ( i could use a stronger word) but what is the point.
    Ye all know what this march is all about. Its about the People. We need to stick together on this one... and Support each other. whether you are worker or not. People suffer, yeah its suppose to get worst out there, but as people of this country we need to stand up and be counted.. and make our voices heard.


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    #72
    yoshytoshy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭yoshytoshy


    SkepticOne wrote: »
    Currency devaluation?

    We use to do that when the irish pound was high against the english pound.
    Now with the euro ,thats the problem with the north.


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    #73
    bobbyjoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 798 ✭✭✭bobbyjoe


    A more detailed version of the ICTU points here:

    http://www.ictu.ie/publications/fulllist/there_is_a_better_fairer_waydoc/


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    #74
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    bobbyjoe wrote: »
    • The most urgent priority is to protect jobs and get the unemployed
    working again.

    Couldn't disagree with that. I'm sure no one in Government would either.
    bobbyjoe wrote: »
    • Government action on the banks must be determined by what is
    best for the Public Interest and how best to protect peoples’
    homes.

    Agreed. And the government say it is (including the moratorium on repossessions)
    bobbyjoe wrote: »
    • Our competitiveness has been damaged by high prices and
    poor infrastructure.

    Fair enough. And high wages.
    bobbyjoe wrote: »
    • Government and Employers are engaged in a Campaign to
    Drive Down Wages, as an alternative to currency devaluation.

    WTF? Currency devaluation is not an option. We cannot devalue the Euro.
    bobbyjoe wrote: »
    • Forcing Working Families to Pay for the Crisis will cost us Jobs.

    Ok. But we need to pay for our deficit. If working people are not to pay, then who?
    bobbyjoe wrote: »
    • The wealthy must contribute significantly to restoring the
    Public Finances.

    Agreed. I'd like some concrete proposals that can realistically raise the kind of money that is required
    bobbyjoe wrote: »
    • The Public Sector Pension Levy is a crude and unfair measure.

    Ok. So give us some real alternative that will deliver the savings. This is all very bland so far.
    bobbyjoe wrote: »
    • Private Sector workers must get the pensions they paid for.

    WTF? My personal pension fund has taken a hammering. Is this proposing that someone else is going to make up the shortfall. I'm off straight after this to draw up my placard.

    bobbyjoe wrote: »
    • Government must quickly enact promised Employment Rights
    legislation.

    Ok.
    bobbyjoe wrote: »
    • A National Recovery Bond will allow people to help build schools,
    health facilities or public transport in their own communities.

    Not a bad idea on the face of it. Borrow from the people who have the most to gain from a recovery.



    But, overall, there isn't much here to get me out on the street tomorrow. We need some more concrete proposals, not aspirations, not just opposition.


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    #75
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    dvpower wrote: »
    Ok. So give us some real alternative that will deliver the savings.
    Stop throwing public money at the construction sector. (1.4bn). Let market forces save the banks (7bn). Sue the banksters (priceless).


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    #76
    seangal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭seangal


    hughs wrote: »
    Look - you cannot argue that people who bought in 2006 made "the best investment" when you could buy the same property now for 40% less. I am glad I didnt buy but I dont take any pleasure in seeing people in negatvie equity.
    yes agree but in general it is a good investment for people as they get old


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    #77
    jenzz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 986 ✭✭✭jenzz


    I cannot get out & protest today. My issues are vast (& I really am not going to get started again ) but for my main issue to protest I do object to the pension levy being slapped on our public sector playmates. A principal ( teaching principal ie does 2 jobs ) will now earn less than a teacher did a years ago ( & before anyone starts having a go - I wouldnt do their job for all the T in China) The firemen, the guards, right down to the cleaner of the loos in Dail Eireann are all being effected. Its a s sneaky double taxation ontop of the 1% being paid like the rest of us .
    But to wish you on your merry way I have a thought for mathematicians & teachers amongst us...

    Typical primary school math question any 10 year old can tell you:
    1.If jen gets paid 5 days a week every week. Next week she decides im not going in 2 days How many days does Jen get paid for ?

    2.The following week she does the same. How many days does Jen get paid for?

    3.If all our TDS only got paid for the number of days the dail actually sits how much money would Einstein-the-money-TD -lenihan save?

    4. If Einstein-the-money-TD-Lenihan then only paid them for the days they actually turned up ( like the rest of us ) how much further revenue would it save ?

    & Finally just out of curiosity if any of the TD's turned up today how many of them would claim expenses for the day & be actually paid them.

    .... Answers on a postcard please to your local FF Fat cat .

    Good luck today on a peaceful protest


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    #78
    jaffa20
    Registered Users Posts: 4,536 ✭✭✭jaffa20


    So, why parnel square? Why not outside leinster house? And will there even be anyone in there now? This should be a laugh whatever the outcome.


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    #79
    Highsider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭Highsider


    Hope it kicks off today. Should make for good TV at the very least


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    #80
    seangal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭seangal


    Highsider wrote: »
    Hope it kicks off today. Should make for good TV at the very least
    hope it is peacefull as the nackers could try and hijack it


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    #81
    yankinlk
    Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭yankinlk


    dvpower wrote: »

    But, overall, there isn't much here to get me out on the street tomorrow. We need some more concrete proposals, not aspirations, not just opposition.

    Great post! Im lost as to how PS workers are so ineptly out of touch with the absolute hammering private sector workers are getting. Its not balanced, its not fair, its random quick and deep.


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    #82
    MG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 823 ✭✭✭MG


    BroomBurner wrote: »
    Are you any of those things?

    I bought a house with my OH on a 100% mortgage. That's all I did off the list. Are you going to begrudge me that?

    Btw, what a way to hijack the thread. It's about whos going to protest, not about your own agenda.


    It's not hijacking the thread, it's the follow on from my reasons for not protesting earlier in the thread. I didn't do anything on the list though I probably did contribute to the (imaginary) boom in some ways. We all did.

    I won't be protesting today because I'd rather take personal responsibility for my own situation. The majority of the people who do protest are hypocrites because they are not taking personal responsibility for the mess, they are trying to blame others.


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    #83
    seangal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭seangal


    MG wrote: »
    It's not hijacking the thread, it's the follow on from my reasons for not protesting earlier in the thread. I didn't do anything on the list though I probably did contribute to the (imaginary) boom in some ways. We all did.

    I won't be protesting today because I'd rather take personal responsibility for my own situation. The majority of the people who do protest are hypocrites because they are not taking personal responsibility for the mess, they are trying to blame others.
    are you telling us that u dont think FF , the banks and the builders caused this?????????
    go and read the anglo report
    because off all 3 we the tax payer have to foot loans of 300 million that was give to the fat 10
    and that is just the start of it


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    #84
    MG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 823 ✭✭✭MG


    seangal wrote: »
    are you telling us that u dont think FF , the banks and the builders caused this?????????
    go and read the anglo report
    because off all 3 we the tax payer have to foot loans of 300 million that was give to the fat 10
    and that is just the start of it

    No I do think FF, the banks and the builders are to blame.

    But I also blame FF voters, the banks customers and the builders customers.


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    #85
    seangal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭seangal


    MG wrote: »
    No I do think FF, the banks and the builders are to blame.

    But I also blame FF voters, the banks customers and the builders customers.
    but FF could have stopped the people getting the money and hence we would have had no property bubble
    as for the general people they were told over and over that the good times would go on. they were first told that house price could not keep going up and the nthey were told it would be a soft landing by the so called people that we trust
    FF were in bed with the bankers it is very close to corruption and we need answers and heads to roll
    this should me a anti goverement protest


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    #86
    MG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 823 ✭✭✭MG


    seangal wrote: »
    but FF could have stopped the people getting the money and hence we would have had no property bubble
    as for the general people they were told over and over that the good times would go on. they were first told that house price could not keep going up and the nthey were told it would be a soft landing by the so called people that we trust
    FF were in bed with the bankers it is very close to corruption and we need answers and heads to roll
    this should me a anti goverement protest

    and who voted FF in? Any of them protesting today?


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    #87
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    seangal wrote: »
    crap apart form anybody who voted FF last time
    we all new that FF were in bed with the builder (Race tent galway)
    what we did not know was that FF were in bed with Bankers
    one group caused this and that is FF
    and it is complete crap to blame the irish people
    irish people have a dream to have there own home and it was the FF regulater that allowed them to get 100% mortages or 6 time there wages
    If they could not get the money house could not keep going up and up and we would not have this banking issue.
    FF to blame fullstop.

    You can blame that party for what has happened all you like but what you should be blaming them for is for never changing the system they inherit/maintain...the same as you should have been blaming every other party/coalition who took seat in government.

    Remember the old adage:
    "No matter who you vote for, the government always wins".

    No difference on 100% or 90% mortgages. The money passing from lender to borrower to recipient has always had the same sources.
    When protesting, make sure you mention every other bugger who has taken charge of the country's affairs and finances since year dot. They're all the same.

    Nobody gave two stuffs when it was all going great for them. Its a vicious circle. The money and well-doing was on offer and the public lapped it up with multiple loans on luxuries never before at their disposal. Multiple credit-cards, 'house-extension' loans spent on anything but house-extensions, two vacations per year, the latest reg on both of their OTT car/4WD/top range model etc etc.
    Foreign investors have made provisions for when the economy gets too expensive for them and will wait for the first excuse to up sticks when it goes that way. Thats business and what brought them to Ireland in the first place.

    If somebody borrowed to the hilt then tough. That 'wealth' they 'acquired' is not only the financial sector and govt's doing but theirs too for feeding them.

    Now it has spiralled downards and everybody is rushing around like headless chickens looking for someone to blame :rolleyes:

    I've certainly no love lost for the current incumbents or their predecessors but I've always been careful with my money, have a 97 reg car, a mortgage on a house here and still get to travel abroad when on annual leave. I guess I'm lucky but I know I certainly didn't fall for the cash on offer when it was everywhere.


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    #88
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    MG wrote: »
    The majority of the people who do protest are hypocrites because they are not taking personal responsibility for the mess, they are trying to blame others.

    It would also be interesting to see how many of them actually get off their jacksies and vote during election time.


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    #89
    MG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 823 ✭✭✭MG


    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    It would also be interesting to see how many of them actually get off their jacksies and vote during election time.

    My biggest fear is that these people will march straight to the RDS afterwards to hear the things they want to hear, just like they voted in FF two years ago because they heard the things they wanted to hear.


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    #90
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    yoshytoshy wrote: »
    We use to do that when the irish pound was high against the english pound.
    Now with the euro ,thats the problem with the north.
    How can they expect to be taken seriously when they come out with this stuff? They say the currency should be devalued instead of pay cuts. Have they not been abroad in the last 8 years? When they were in Benidorm or wherever did they not notice that they paid for their sausage and chips with Euros, the same currency as we use in Ireland?

    Surely most people know that we can't devalue our currency because it is shared with French, Germans, Spanish etc. Their ideas are worse than the Government's!


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    #91
    gamblor1975
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭gamblor1975


    This whole escapade seems to be all about getting as many people out on the streets as possible regardless of what their cause is. The unions seem to be casting as wide a net as possible to get numbers out and I'm pretty sure that after the protest (which I hope is peacefull) the union leaders will point to the crowd and say that all of these people are here to protest about the pension levy.
    I believe that there are people protesting today who should be listned to (Dublin bus and the lower paid public service unions etc.) but there will also be many people protesting who should not in my opinion be lumped in with these lower paid workers. Gardai and nurses in particular earn 40-50K+ and for this reason I dont think they will get the same sympathy from the public. This seems to be the plan of the protest organisers to blend the crowd in together and make it seem like they are all hurting the same. With so many different groups all protesting over different issues, this protest does seem to lack a sense of direction.


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