If you could completely change the political system in Ireland what would you change

achtungbarry

I'll get the ball rolling.

• Abolish the senate.
  
• Reduce the number of Dail seats to two per county counting Dublin City, Fingal, South Dublin and Dun Laoghaire as counties due to high populations. I think that makes 58 seats in total, more than enough for our population compared to other countries.
  
• A directly elected Taoisech as in the American and French systems. Yes this may lead to a Taoiseach from one party while another controls parliament. No harm I say. The French and Americans have managed. I believe we the people should choose our leader. Who among us chose Brian Cowen as Taoiseach ?
  
• A Taoiseach and cabinet more independent from parliament but still checked by it. The details of this arrangement would obviously have to be worked out. People appointed ministers would resign their seats and work only as ministers like in most European countries. This might cut out some of the looking after your own patch culture. It also may make them knuckle down and do a half decent knowledge that in the evnt of being sacked there is no cosy Dail seat to fall back on.
  
• The possibility of choosing ministers from outside the pool of TDs as in many other countries. Why pick a former lawyer as finance minister ? That makes no sense. Why not pick an expert in the field who must be approved by parliament ? This of course raises the question of unelected people being in positions of power and raises the Brendan Drumm spectre. It could be limited to a certain number or certain positions. Most of Obama's appointments were unelected. A candidate Taoiseach could also be obliged to reveal the identity of his/her cabinet before election day ? This is a tough point I concede but one I think could be looked at (hypothetically of course).
  
• Do we really need a president ?
  
• Taoiseach salary - 150k (100k reduction)
  
• Minister salary - 90k
  
• TD salary - 70k
  
• No junior ministers - senior ministers would no longer have a constituency to worry about.
  
• Full public record of receipts for expenses (capped)
  

I would also love to break up the stale party political system we have and provide people with a real choice between left right and centre. It is healthy for a country to swing back and forth between (moderate) left and right every so often. We have never had this in Ireland. This isn't a suggestion so much as a personal wish.

Has anyone else any suggestions about what they would change or opinions on a new political system if given the choice to start from scratch ?

silverharp

Abolish Income tax and have a VAT and capital gains tax of 10%. Then tell the gov. thats your budget go nuts, oh any by the way no borrowing.:D

Het-Field

achtungbarry wrote: »

I'll get the ball rolling.

• Abolish the senate.
  
• Reduce the number of Dail seats to two per county counting Dublin City, Fingal, South Dublin and Dun Laoghaire as counties due to high populations. I think that makes 58 seats in total, more than enough for our population compared to other countries.
  
• A directly elected Taoisech as in the American and French systems. Yes this may lead to a Taoiseach from one party while another controls parliament. No harm I say. The French and Americans have managed. I believe we the people should choose our leader. Who among us chose Brian Cowen as Taoiseach ?
  
• A Taoiseach and cabinet more independent from parliament but still checked by it. The details of this arrangement would obviously have to be worked out. People appointed ministers would resign their seats and work only as ministers like in most European countries. This might cut out some of the looking after your own patch culture.
  
• The possibility of choosing ministers from outside the pool of TDs as in many other countries. Why pick a former lawyer as finance minister ? That makes no sense. Why not pick an expert in the field who must be approved by parliament ? This of course raises the question of unelected people being in positions of power and raises the Brendan Drumm spectre. It could be limited to a certain number or certain positions. Most of Obama's appointments were unelected. A candidate Taoiseach could also be obliged to reveal the identity of his/her cabinet before election day ? This is a tough point I concede but one I think could be looked at (hypothetically of course).
  
• Do we really need a president ?
  
• Taoiseach salary - 150k (100k reduction)
  
• Minister salary - 90k
  
• TD salary - 70k
  
• No junior ministers - senior ministers would no longer have a constituency to worry about.
  
• Full public record of receipts for expenses (capped)
  

Has anyone else any suggestions about what they would change or opinions on a new political system if given the choice to start from scratch ?

*Abolition of Town Council
*Constitutionally define the role of "County Manager"
*Seriously upgrade County Cllrs role

*Dail
*Radically Reduce the Number of Dail Deputies
*Enshrine the Role of the Dail in the Consitution i.e ensure parish pump patriots have no place in the Dail
*Properly Ensrine the Role of Ministers in the Constitution

*Seante Reform
*No Taoiseach's Nominees for General Elction failures who are friends of the Taoiseach
*Reform the Graduate System to ensure all Graduates vote
*Make it an Independent House, with all Memebers expected to come into the upper house with no Political ties. As a result, most are not looking for a quick way out of the senate and back into the lower house

Voting System
*Potential trial of the List System to root out the "personal aspect" in Irish politics, which votes for the man rather than the party, the manifesto or the ideology

Other Reforms
*Appoint a Surgeon General to advise and aid the Minster For Health
*Appoint a board of Financial experts in a similar manner to the US Treasury
*Clear Referenda on the most pressing moral issues to abolsih the "Irish Solution to an Irish problem" mantra.


I dont have time to go into specific economic and social reforms, but by God, I want to say my piece on these issues !

SkepticOne

Reduce the number of TDs drastically.
First past the post electoral system.
Introduce local taxation and make councillors responsible for local issues.

achtungbarry

Het-Field wrote: »

*Seriously upgrade County Cllrs role

Agreed

Het-Field wrote: »

Voting System
*Potential trial of the List System to root out the "personal aspect" in Irish politics, which votes for the man rather than the party, the manifesto or the ideology

Yes, Irish politics is far too local, leave the local stuff to the councillors. Couldn't agree more about ideologies and manifestos, might get people really thinking about what kind of country they want.

Het-Field wrote: »

Other Reforms
*Appoint a Surgeon General to advise and aid the Minster For Health
*Appoint a board of Financial experts in a similar manner to the US Treasury
*Clear Referenda on the most pressing moral issues to abolsih the "Irish Solution to an Irish problem" mantra!

Yes, yes and yes. As I said we need experts involved in decision making on specialized areas.

And, yes, let's finally grasp the nettle and hold a real and clear referendum.

P. Breathnach

Given the quality of public discourse on politics in Ireland, I am tempted to suggest that we should abolish the electorate.

Dannyboy83

Some really good points here, a lot I agree with.

One point I don't agree with is the pay however.
We should half the TDs but double the pay.
Try to attract the best qualified people from all over the EU into government.

So instead of appointing lawyers as Financial ministers, we would appoint vetted, successful, experienced candidates.

End of the day, a lot of people don't want the hassle when they could make a lot more money in industry.

==========================================================
Another point is the locality.
Ireland is so small and everybody knows each other.
This is why we have the current shenanigans where nobody is prosecuted and no legislation developed.

At least if we brought in some strangers, we could emulate a system like they have in the US, where the FBI aren't going to run into you down at the pub, and couldn't give a sod about scratching your back.

Mr.Micro

Introduce stringent laws on corruption would be my first suggestion.

Daithinski

Create and enforce regulations, so the golden-circle-money-men can't make up the rules as they go along.

Maybe then we could put a few of these suited-robbers in prison. And a few politicians too.

They have done more harm to society / the nation than all of the burglars and armed robbers put together.

Sleepy

Most of what you have in your OP, achtungbarry except:

Make a td's salary equal to twice the national average wage, a minister's equal to one and half times that with the Taoiseach taking 4 times average wage. Simple and fair. No "expense allowances" to be tolerated with only legitimate, receipted expenses being paid for out of the public coffers. The notion of walking around and turning up money is scandalous. All jobs have certain expenses associated with them (lunch, transport to/from the office etc.), this is no different whether you're a plumber or a TD.

All past and present members of both houses barred from running for a position in the new order.

Then again, part of me would be tempted to disband both houses and hand the reigns of power to Michael O' Leary for a decade.

jimmycrackcorm

Disallow independents deals. Pay enough to remove corruption. Enforce sackings for failures.

Use the voting machines to allow people to vote directly on issues.

jmayo

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Introduce stringent laws on corruption would be my first suggestion.

Yes and enforce the ones already on the statue books.

Separate the "local" and "national" sphere of influence within irish politics.

Make both top public servants and ministers responsible for their actions.
If you screw up as top public official you are fired. No golden handshake.
If you screw up as politican you are fired from your office (of course that requires politicans themselves to have the guts to stand up and walk the plank and also for the voters to remind them at next election).

If a polician has a criminal record, have defrauded the state i.e. not paid taxes or are involved in facilitating tax evasion then they cannot run for public office for period of at least 20 years. (depends on severity of case - jail and fines imposed)

If government minister or elected official cannot explain all their finances, they immediately have to resign from office. Have independent accessor (ombusman) investigate cases. Could use Dail committee and or Comptroller and auditor General with CABs help.

Do not allow government to setup quangoes to hide behind, they ultimately control the budgets so they are again responsible.

Cut TD salaries by 20%.

No serving polician can draw a pension and can only do so after either 10 years of leaving all public offices or if over 65 years (whichever is sooner).

Cut minister salaries and Taiseach salary by 20%.

Cut elected officals expenses.

Cut junior ministers to say 4 (have one in top 4 departments - finance, enviroment, health and foreign affairs).

Give committees more power to investigate.

Cut number of TDs and allow 1 senator per county (electable), 3 for Dublin.
Although some of the best senators are the ones not totally party affiliated.

Make political funding state based, none of this tent cr**.

Normally it should be expected that an elected representative would have enough moral character to step down in some of the eventshighlighted above but since our politicans (one party in particular) have such low ethics and the electorate are even worse in that they tolerate it, it is necessary to bring in rules to guarantee certain ethical behaviour

otwb

1. Cut the number of TD's to two per county as per atchungbarry, this would reduce the number of people being reelected because daddy was a minister and I was able to get you planning permission for your white bungalow
   
2. TD's earnings capped, no unvouched expenses, no right to hold on to your teaching job indefinitely while you are off being a TD for 10 years...
   
3. Directly elected President/Taoiseach - don't need both
   
4. Reduce the number of Dail committees, eliminate Junior Ministers
   
5. More accountability for the civil service, increments to be properly linked to performance
   
6. CS to properly monitor agencies
   
7. Wishful thinking on this one set realistic wage levels, is a consultant really worth 250k??? should two people working at the same job be paid 20k difference because one of them has been doing the job for 10 years???
   
8. Increased power to local government, decent planning rules - greenbelts are greenbelts and not "my parents lived here therefore I am morally entitled to build a house wherever I like" (funny how that doesn't work if you are from Blackrock)
   

MG

Break the unions and get them out of politics and back to ensuring minimum standards of safety and fair treatment like they should be doing.

I also think operating a dual list and direct electoral system (as in Germany) might reduce the amount of parish pump politics. (i.e. a certain no of TDs election as is currently done and then another lot from a list based on the nationwide party vote).

Mr.Micro

Any TD or CC caught loitering around any planning dept. suspended immediately and any letter/email/verbal/lobbying or any enquiry re a planning issue automatic sacking and legal action. Get the Laws clarified for the future. Of course it will never happen.

As an aside we might be forgiven for thinking we have an alternative cabinet in the guise of the golden 10 whose rights, it appears, are put above the new owners, the taxpayer, 10 Vs 4.5 million. The golden circle has probably more members that have dictated in the past and all the deals were done in Galway at the races of course.

eoinbn

Pretty much the same as the OP. I believe I proposed similar changes a few weeks ago, but achtungbarry articulated it much better than I did.

achtungbarry

Sleepy wrote: »

Most of what you have in your OP, achtungbarry except:

Make a td's salary equal to twice the national average wage, a minister's equal to one and half times that with the Taoiseach taking 4 times average wage. Simple and fair. No "expense allowances" to be tolerated with only legitimate, receipted expenses being paid for out of the public coffers. The notion of walking around and turning up money is scandalous. All jobs have certain expenses associated with them (lunch, transport to/from the office etc.), this is no different whether you're a plumber or a TD.

All past and present members of both houses barred from running for a position in the new order.

Then again, part of me would be tempted to disband both houses and hand the reigns of power to Michael O' Leary for a decade.

I really like your idea of linking politicians' salaries to the average salary. Any decision made on wages affects them too, good or bad.

Pride Fighter

achtungbarry wrote: »

[*]Reduce the number of Dail seats to two per county counting Dublin City, Fingal, South Dublin and Dun Laoghaire as counties due to high populations. I think that makes 58 seats in total, more than enough for our population compared to other countries.

That seems grossly unfair that 30% of the population gets about 12% of the seats. Your system would lead to an agrarian, FF/FG dominated sh1thole. Kind of like what it was in yesteryear.

mumhaabu

Reintroduce the death penalty, move Ireland further right, abolish the Senate completely.

Upgrade the role of our President to be able to veto anything conducted in the Dail or Senate. Presidential terms limited to 2 years instead of 7 with a maximum of three terms. This way we could have FF in Government but as we'd elect a new President every two years it would allow us now to vote in a new President who would have the power to dissolve the Dail and order a general election.

This way the party in power would have to have accountability or they would risk being turfed out soon. This method of democracy would work far better and voting should be made mandatory with a National Bank Holiday called upon voting day.

A petition of over 500,000 votes with council support would also be able to impeach the president thus guaranteeing that the likes of FF would be dumped out the instant they start screwing up.

I'd favour a vote of confidence in the President every year so as to bring about accountability. To think that if the greens don't topple the government soon we could be stuck with these shower of gangsters until June 2012. Cest la vie Irland if so.

achtungbarry

Pride Fighter wrote: »

That seems grossly unfair that 30% of the population gets about 12% of the seats. Your system would lead to an agrarian, FF/FG dominated sh1thole. Kind of like what it was in yesteryear.

To be honest, they were just numbers I just plucked out of the air. Of course, population would influence the number of seats given but the number of TDs could still be drastically reduced in any case.

achtungbarry

mumhaabu wrote: »

move Ireland further right, .

Yeah because that really worked with the PDs didn't it.

Pride Fighter

achtungbarry wrote: »

To be honest, they were just numbers I just plucked out of the air. Of course, population would influence the number of seats given but the number of TDs could still be drastically reduced in any case.

No bother, I agree that we should cut public representation. Maybe not as low as your suggesting but cutting the Oireachtas (166TD's, 60 Senators) by at least 40% with a unicameral legislature. That would be about 120-130 TD's which would be grand IMO.

Pride Fighter

mumhaabu wrote: »

Reintroduce the death penalty,

So you want us to be kicked out of the EU, they would never allow us do that without leaving the Union.

dave-higgz

Hey everybody, Lovin all these suggestions. They all sound much more democratic than what we're stuck with now. (except the death penalty).

I hate to rain on ye're parade however, but what govenment would actually enact any of these changes. I believe neither FF or FG would warm to some of these ideas and is there any party out there that would??

achtungbarry

dave-higgz wrote: »

Hey everybody, Lovin all these suggestions. They all sound much more democratic than what we're stuck with now. (except the death penalty).

I hate to rain on ye're parade however, but what govenment would actually enact any of these changes. I believe neither FF or FG would warm to some of these ideas and is there any party out there that would??

Just wait for the boards.ie led revolution !

dave-higgz

One thing I hate about politics in Ireland is voting for the party and dynasty instead of the person.
Take Brian Lenihan for example. He didn't show any interest in politics until he was asked to run in the by-election as a result of his father's death. It's clear that his father's good name and affiliation with the Fianna Fail party were elements in swaying the public vote.
It's also clear now that Brian Lenihan, like his other colleagues, is incompetent and is not fit to clean up our economic mess. Also as far as qualification goes, he's a barrister not an economist.

Farlane

achtungbarry wrote: »

• Abolish the senate.

The Seanad needs reform, yes, but it is worthwhile and shouldn't be abolished.

• Reduce the number of Dail seats to two per county counting Dublin City, Fingal, South Dublin and Dun Laoghaire as counties due to high populations. I think that makes 58 seats in total, more than enough for our population compared to other countries.

Dub, are you? I would be in favour of a reduction by one seat in every constituency across the country.

achtungbarry wrote: »

I'll get the ball rolling.

• A directly elected Taoisech as in the American and French systems. Yes this may lead to a Taoiseach from one party while another controls parliament. No harm I say. The French and Americans have managed. I believe we the people should choose our leader. Who among us chose Brian Cowen as Taoiseach ?

Tempting, but the system wouldn't really be effective. Besides, we all knew Cowen would take over at some stage during this Dáil.

• A Taoiseach and cabinet more independent from parliament but still checked by it. The details of this arrangement would obviously have to be worked out. People appointed ministers would resign their seats and work only as ministers like in most European countries. This might cut out some of the looking after your own patch culture. It also may make them knuckle down and do a half decent knowledge that in the evnt of being sacked there is no cosy Dail seat to fall back on.

I think they should be less independent from the Dáil than what they are right now. Many of their responsibilities are fielded out to quangos so it's not their problem anymore.

• The possibility of choosing ministers from outside the pool of TDs as in many other countries. Why pick a former lawyer as finance minister ? That makes no sense. Why not pick an expert in the field who must be approved by parliament ? This of course raises the question of unelected people being in positions of power and raises the Brendan Drumm spectre. It could be limited to a certain number or certain positions. Most of Obama's appointments were unelected. A candidate Taoiseach could also be obliged to reveal the identity of his/her cabinet before election day ? This is a tough point I concede but one I think could be looked at (hypothetically of course).

Civil servants are the ones with the expertise, Ministers are supposed to be briefed in areas and come to a decision with the facts made known to them. The people would have no recourse if there was a Minister they didn't like.

achtungbarry wrote: »

• Do we really need a president ?

Yes, the President is worth having. It's a largely technical, but still important, role.

achtungbarry wrote: »

• Taoiseach salary - 150k (100k reduction)
• Minister salary - 90k
• TD salary - 70k
• No junior ministers - senior ministers would no longer have a constituency to worry about.
• Full public record of receipts for expenses (capped)

I agree with the paycuts, the number of junior Ministers should be severely reduced but a few do have important roles and TDs should be required to present reciepts to claim any expenses.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Pride Fighter

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

LOL, that is hillarious:D:D

Carawaystick

I'd change the senate to allow professional and trade groups to elect an amount of senators, - like 2 docs, 2 electricians, 2 engineers, 2 accountants, 2 plumbers. no public representatives (past or present, including incumbents)allowed to run, accredited members of trade/professional organisations allowed to vote.

Introduce local democracy - proper local democracy, with tax raising powers like most European municipal and communal areas. Once this is set up and running, reduce the number of TDs. This is the crucial difference between the level of representation of national legislators and local legislators here compared to most other european countries.

Introduce a free vote/1 line/3 line voting system for TD's. This would at least help actually keep the govt in check, unlike now where you have TD's who voted in a law struck down as unconstitutional disclaiming any responsibility for voting it in....

(Re)Introduce ministerial responsibility for all executive powers. Gardaí, HSE, Assay office, Energy regulator, Financial regulator, all of them.

No unreceipted expenses for any civil or public servant. No Attendance money for Oireachtas members. > 60 Euros to go less than 15 miles to Leinster house? per Day? in most jobs, the salary pays for your cost of getting to work. Country Oireachtas members can claim for accommodation in Dublin only that conforms to the minimum levels legally allowed.

Any private use of Ministerial cars incurs the standard BIK tax implications on the entire car. also tax the BIK of having a driver for any private use of ministerial cars.

Do not allow any "illegal parking" by ministerial cars like outside St Lukes, or the Dept of Enterprise on Kildare St.

mumhaabu

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I like your thinking, if we had more people like you in Irish politics then we would truly be a better country.