If you could completely change the political system in Ireland what would you change

achtungbarry

Farlane wrote: »

The Seanad needs reform, yes, but it is worthwhile and shouldn't be abolished.


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Dub, are you? I would be in favour of a reduction by one seat in every constituency across the country.


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Tempting, but the system wouldn't really be effective. Besides, we all knew Cowen would take over at some stage during this Dáil.


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I think they should be less independent from the Dáil than what they are right now. Many of their responsibilities are fielded out to quangos so it's not their problem anymore.


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Civil servants are the ones with the expertise, Ministers are supposed to be briefed in areas and come to a decision with the facts made known to them. The people would have no recourse if there was a Minister they didn't like.


Yes, the President is worth having. It's a largely technical, but still important, role.



I agree with the paycuts, the number of junior Ministers should be severely reduced but a few do have important roles and TDs should be required to present reciepts to claim any expenses.

So basically make very little change at all ?


As for the Dub thing, it was pointed out that under my system, Dublin would actually less represented than now with about 14 % of seats yet 30 % of population so yes that would have to be readjusted.

Sam Kade

achtungbarry wrote: »

Do we really need a president ?

We must be the only country in the world that has a president as an ornament.

랴연

- Have Fianna Fail made an illegal organisation. Membership is punishable by 20 years in prison.
- Burn the constitution and the entire political, economical and judicial systems to the ground in order to start from scratch.

- Cut the number of TD's from the old system to about half for the new system.
- Voting is compulsory.
- All companies must be run as democracies. Every employee has a say, every employee takes a share of the profit. No board members. i.e > Communes sort of. Private ownership will be allowed to an extent.
- President given power equal to what they get under the French system.
- Senate given power equal to the president.

i.e > Senate, Dáil and President have equal power.

Politicians caught taking bribes to be shot. Or at least automatically fired from office.

Public review board which is picked from random members of the Country to be allowed any and all access to government policies, politicians bank accounts etc.

Thats for a start.

RiverWilde

I'd cut the number of TD's to about 60 and make the Senate directly electable. It would not have the power to veto legislation; it would continue to have it's review function with the added power to refer legislation to the Supreme Court to test it's constitutionality.

I'd abolish the position of President

I would create an impartial investigative body (overseen by the Supreme Court) whose sole remit would be to monitor the activities of govt. (spending etc). If a member of either house was found to be involved in illegal or other activities which could bring their office into disrepute - resignation without benefits would be mandatory.

I would shorten the number of years between General Elections to four years.

I'd sell off redundant military property - barracks etc and use the cash to modernise and streamline the armed forces. I would introduce compulsory military training for all citizens deemed fit for service - with training updated every three to five years.

Those are just a few to start with ...

Riv

silverharp

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

now that is a vision, We would become the new Switzerland of Europe overnight. My own finances are based on the gold standard and I am sleeping like a baby at the moment:D

asdasd

this thread is attracting the looney libertarian right, and the utterly stupid left, all arguing past each other. Its not worth replying, probably, but I am a masochist. So here goes:

Have Fianna Fail made an illegal organisation. Membership is punishable by 20 years in prison.

good luck with that one. Fianna Fail still have huge support, and more working class support than labour. Also they are a constitutional party. So much for "democratic" reform.

- Burn the constitution and the entire political, economical and judicial systems to the ground in order to start from scratch.

do we get a new constituion? Do you get to write it from your bedsit?

- Cut the number of TD's from the old system to about half for the new system.
- Voting is compulsory.

Dont care, and meh.

All companies must be run as democracies. Every employee has a say, every employee takes a share of the profit. No board members. i.e > Communes sort of. Private ownership will be allowed to an extent.

No boards, eh? All American comapnies leave. All capital disappers. It is hard to measure what the effect on GDP and emplyment is, but I suspect GDP to collapse by 90%, and unemplyment to reach 80%. Well done.

- President given power equal to what they get under the French system.

**** that. I prefern parliamentary governance.

- Senate given power equal to the president.
i.e > Senate, Dáil and President have equal power.

Fantastic, although I note that you want a democratic capitalist model, the senate and its priggish "real university" electorate gets equal rights with the democraticaly elected lower parliament ( although that parliament cant have Fianna Fail, which is banned)

I realy dont have time to respond to the equally imbelice Libertarians.
The nuts do come out of the woodwork when crises arrise.

랴연

asdasd wrote: »

this thread is attracting the looney libertarian right, and the utterly stupid left, all arguing past each other. Its not worth replying, probably, but I am a masochist. So here goes:

good luck with that one. Fianna Fail still have huge support, and more working class support than labour. Also they are a constitutional party. So much for "democratic" reform.

I wasn't (100%) serious. Forgot the sarcasm tags

I'm just very disillusioned with the current situation and the situation for the past few years.

I do think our political system needs dramatic reform though.

jmayo

Actually the more I look at this thread title, I think the biggest thing we need to change are the VOTERS themselves.

If voters stopped tolerating the dodgy chancers that appear at our door looking for votes then the likes of Flynn, Lowry, Lawlor, Burke, Ahern would not be reelected.
The ones elected would realise that they need to tow the line or they would not get back in.
Simple fact.

Instead we, the people, turn a blind eye to their dodgy deals, their tax evasion, their wads of foreign currency in the safe, their costly planning deals, etc etc and elect them back into office.

Thus the chancers are rewarded and the honest hardworking politicans haven't a chance.

We need to wake up and realise that our turning a blind eye has allowed these fe**ers get away with it for so long.

Unless the people change, then it doesn't matter how many laws, regulations are brought in, the cute hoorism will continue to thrive and we will be back here again in another 20 years.

latenia

Stamp out nepotism and political dynasties by making it illegal for relations of TDs to run for office for 10 years following their death (and completely while they're still alive.) This would extend to 20 years in the case of ministers and life for relations of a Taoiseach, President, or Tanaiste. I would copy the Revenue's own 'connected persons' law on this matter:

Individuals are connected with:
• their spouses,
• their relatives (brothers, sisters, ancestors or lineal descendants) or relatives of their spouses,
• individuals or spouses of individuals with whom they or their spouses are in partnership,
• the settlor or beneficiary of a trust where the individual is a trustee of that trust and vice versa.
Companies or other bodies of persons are connected with:
• persons who control that company,
• other companies that act in pursuit of a common purpose with the company, or
• a person or persons with a reasonable commonality of interests who have the power to determine
the activities of two companies.

Did you know over half of the TDs in the Dail 'inherited' their seats from their parents or other close relations? I know they were voted in so it has the veneer of being technically democratic, but in reality we are subjects of a hereditary political class.

asdasd

I know they were voted in so it has the veneer of being technically democratic, but in reality we are subjects of a hereditary political class.

Happens everywhere - the Benn's, the Clintons, the Kennedys. There are some political families, and that is not necessarily bad. I do think that the newly educated Irish generation of the last 20 years has not being making it's presence felt - it has been voting Fianna Fail to not rock the boat. Now is time for change. I would like a new cenrist party, s a part of the left is going to pander to the PS, but whatever.

Big change coming.

Ironbars

latenia wrote: »

Did you know over half of the TDs in the Dail 'inherited' their seats from their parents or other close relations? I know they were voted in so it has the veneer of being technically democratic, but in reality we are subjects of a hereditary political class.

Is this true and were can I corroborate it? If true its fucked up......

SectionF

If I could change the political system in Ireland, I would make it democratic.

Here's how I would start:

• Ban on private political donations of any kind, with sanctions on a par with treason
• Statutory support for fair and independent public media that is advertising-free, so that our political debates are not conducted, as at present, on the basis of general ignorance.
• Whistleblower's charter
• Fast-track sacking clause for incompetence or corruption attached to the contract for every senior post in public organizations, or private organizations of public importance (e.g. banks)
• Outlawing of golden handshakes/pensions to corrupt or inept individuals forced from office
• Abolition of antiquated defamation laws that protect the corrupt
• Forced reform of legal and medical professions to end their conspiracies against the public interest
• Replacement of all pseudo-regulators with offices that have real powers and actually believe in and understand regulation
• Reform of local government to end tinpot dictatorships of unelected officials
• Commitment to civic education
• Rolling review by external international body

vodkababy

I think the govt and govt agencies need to be streamlined. There are too many TDs. Do we really need all of them?? We should reduce their salaries and restrict their expenses. The corruption issue needs to be tackled too!!

In the health service, I think there are too many managers, all of these could be streamlined. Too many managers, not enough workers!!!

Iwasfrozen

-Privatisation of all major Public services.
-

All companies must be run as democracies. Every employee has a say, every employee takes a share of the profit. No board members. i.e > Communes sort of. Private ownership will be allowed to an extent.

This except take away the democracy but have elected representatives on the board.
-Increase Cooperation Tax massively but hand 90% of it back to the Cooperation as a "grant" subject of course to Claw Back for moves deemed damaging to society such as laying people off, leaving the country etc. Basically have the Corporations benefit us instead of the other way around.
-increase the time between General Elections to 10 years.
-increase military spending and make 1 year military training compulsory for all people male and female.
-Make Education the number 1 state priority and give incentives for people to stay in the country after graduation.

No boards, eh? All American comapnies leave. All capital disappers. It is hard to measure what the effect on GDP and emplyment is, but I suspect GDP to collapse by 90%, and unemplyment to reach 80%. Well done.

Why are we so dependent on American Companies ?
And no not "all capital" will disapear, the Nation will be rebuilt with more numerous smaller Irish businesses and the larger state owned businesses.
Employment will rise over time, not fall and whats more it will be stable, unlike the U.S companies who screw us for all we're worth then feck off out of the country.
And isn't it worth it to create a sable ecomony with increased employment in the long run, even if that means cutting it in the short term ?

Fratton Fred

I would ban anyone from being a TD who is less than three generations away from a former TD. I would also scrap PR, make constituencies smaller and reduce the number of TD's. There is too much democracy in this country.

dave-higgz

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I would ban anyone from being a TD who is less than three generations away from a former TD.

As much as I'd like to see Brian Lenihan and others banned from politics It's just something that'll never happen.
I have no examples off hand, however I believe that people following in their parents footsteps is a good thing as it is a goal to reach for and an incentive to work hard. Now in the case of politics it seems to be just a tool to get into power however I believe most politicians, even Lenihan got into politics to make their ancestors proud and to serve their country.

ArphaRima

The voters.

Then the rest is easy.

Johnboy Mac

To change the political system I'd go back first of all to the root cause of our problems, County Councils and work from there since our TD's are a product of that mentality.

Johnboy Mac

fluffer wrote: »

The voters.

Then the rest is easy.

+1

liberal

silverharp wrote: »

Abolish Income tax and have a VAT and capital gains tax of 10%. Then tell the gov. thats your budget go nuts, oh any by the way no borrowing.:D

I don't know if your being serious or not, but that's my idea of proper government, take little give little.

Example of "disgusting excess":

My friend is 21 and works part time, he is a fully capable person but is a lazy pot smoker, he gets state assistance in the form of a €170 pay supplement because he works less than 20 hours a week, he lives with his folks, who r actually pretty well off, wtf, that equals about the weekly tax from about 3 mid level workers to pay the "welfare" for one person

Also, get rid of the TV license, RTE have ads anyway it makes no sense to me

NewDubliner

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

-Increase Cooperation Tax massively

This is a new tax I have not heard of. Why would you want to tax cooperation?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

And isn't it worth it to create a sable ecomony with increased employment in the long run, even if that means cutting it in the short term ?

Is it really a good idea to base our economy on worldwide demand for the pelts of small furry animals?:eek:

junder

re-intergrate the occuiped 26 countys back into the UK

(note: this comment was made purly as a joke and in is no way to be taken seriously)

NewDubliner

junder wrote: »

re-intergrate the occuiped 26 countys back into the UK

(note: this comment was made purly as a joke and in is no way to be taken seriously)

Declare war on the USA (and surrender before anyone gets hurt...:D)

Lockstep

donegalfella wrote: »

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Reminds me of Jennifer Government

Permabear

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conlonbmw

Great ideas on here guys.

We are all in agreement on reducing waste.

Death penalty for any corrupt politician or garda.

Lockstep

donegalfella wrote: »

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I've been looking for that book for ages but never came across it (one of my quirks is that being an avid reader, I never buy books online, I find it takes the fun out of coming across them)

I know a few people who've read it, it's meant to be very good. Apparently the flipside of 1984.


You might be interested in the game that was released with it, it's a great little political simulator, free too.
http://nationstates.net/

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Lockstep

donegalfella wrote: »

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I know the feeling.

donegalfella wrote: »

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Yeah, that's exactly it. As 1984 goes to the extreme of state control, Jennifer Government is the extreme of libertarianism/anarcho-capitalism.

asdasd

Anyone fear that DF is going to read Jennifer Government and think it a workable blueprint, not a satire?