Photographing protest marches

Thoie

Hypothetical situation. Say you went out to photograph a protest march of some kind, and something went wrong and it all turned nasty - what's the best way to protect both yourself and your camera and get the hell out of the way quickly? Or would you sacrifice the camera and run?

Changing subject completely, anyone fancy a Dublin city centre photo trip tomorrow afternoon?

stick-dan

There isn't a protest tomorrow is there?? :P

banshee_bones

get yourself into a nice high spot with good visibility and a good escape route so you cant get trampled on.....otherwise get your camera insured pronto!

Or take out the sd card and run like hell!!! :pac:




*p.s good luck in Dublin tomorrow!

Covey

Make sure your gear is insured, then swing that telephoto like mad. It's a very effective weapon.

Tomorrow though is wide angle day. Nothing better than to smell the sweat for this type of thing.

challengemaster

This is when slingshots come in very handy

Swing, put it back in, close it up, fasten it back with the extra strap, run like fcuk!

AnimalRights

Thoie wrote: »

Changing subject completely, anyone fancy a Dublin city centre photo trip tomorrow afternoon?

At a funeral/Pub in Cabra but you have me intrigued, what is it?

Nisio

Essential bit of kit, Deal Extreme probably do it

bocha

good pair of trainers

Dragan

Thoie wrote: »

Hypothetical situation. Say you went out to photograph a protest march of some kind, and something went wrong and it all turned nasty - what's the best way to protect both yourself and your camera and get the hell out of the way quickly? Or would you sacrifice the camera and run?

Changing subject completely, anyone fancy a Dublin city centre photo trip tomorrow afternoon?

In the world or Reality Based Self Defence one of those points that is never argued and just accepted is that if you want to do well in an agressive situation, the best thing to do is avoid that agressive situation.

I am not sure if anyone here has ever been witness to a protest turned to riot, or even a large group of people who suddenly turn violent but i can assure you, it will be terrifying and your fight or flight response will do your thinking for you.

The best thing to do is just be aware of what is around you, not what is in your view finder. Don't have earphones in your ears, when one of your sense is locked up on something like taking a photograph the others can be your only real warning. Be aware of where you are....what street are you on, what other streets lead where, what is the route of the protest. Keep an eye on the breaking news and developments. If you hear that something has kicked off two streets over the just take the safe option and get the hell out. The golden rule is, you need to realise that simply being a photographer in a place where people are breaking that law makes you a target.

My girlfriend was at the May Day march that turned to a riot, was nearly attacked herself and witnessed another photographer getting his clicking finger close to torn off.

It's a case of prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

I don't mind saying that in any situation like that, i would make sure i didn't have my best kit with me and would live by my mantra that if someone is coming at me to do harm, that person had better watch out.

Thoie

Dragan wrote: »

In the world or Reality Based Self Defence one of those points that is never argued and just accepted is that if you want to do well in an agressive situation, the best thing to do is avoid that agressive situation.

99% of me is telling me to stay the hell away from town. Part of me thinks there could be some photo ops, but as you mentioned further down, if things did go wrong, I don't want to have target written over my forehead. Reading through your advice, I really just don't know Dublin well enough to know where to run to, so am probably just best off staying away - unless I can find a friend with a nice safe apartment that I can hang out the window of.

AnimalRights

What the hell is the protest???

Covey

I would echo the above, be careful and don't put yourself in danger.

A couple of photgraphic pointers though.

Get in your shot and move on. Don't review if your shot is properly exposed/ composed until you're at home. A missed shot is better than a thick lip.

Preset your camera for Tv,Av and Manual and move up and down as needed. Remember shooting on P (yes P !!) is probably the way to go though, changing iso as needed.

Remember, you don't need your eye attached to the viewfinder to take shots. Practise on a few statues beforehand and shooting from the hip/chest can be very effective.

Use both your Eyes

Covey

AnimalRights wrote: »

What the hell is the protest???

The expected lack of cider after yesterdays bad news. :pac:

Thoie

AnimalRights wrote: »

What the hell is the protest???

Patience! I'm trying to work and find links for you at the same time

Here you go:

http://www.ictu.ie/press/2009/02/12/national-demonstration-set-for-21-february/

ICTU have been rallying anyone and everyone to turn up to their protest tomorrow. Some people posit that what they're really trying to do is say "Look! A gazillion people don't want civil servants to pay for pensions".

A number of people are extremely angry at the government, and at some of the goings-on that have come to light in recent days. It appears that a lot of people with no affiliation to any trade union are planning on marching tomorrow, making this potentially one of the biggest protest marches Dublin has seen. Or it might all turn out to be a damp squib.

Covey

Or,

We may have the Protest ( against the pension levy) and the anti-protest against the protesters. A poll this week was pretty close as to for or against.

Now, that could be fun :D

Ricky91t

Bring a monopod,made with a tough meterial and be prepared to beat some of them away

Dragans advice is very good!

thebaz

I have never run, nor handed over anything - even when threatened - if you're fearfull about a situation you need to question why you are there, and way up the risks afterwards - I believe if your intentions are sound, you will be ok, bearing in mind that many interesting images require risk - Cappa comes to mind, but he lost his life for his beliefs - For me life is full of risks, which are better confronted rather than hiding from

Thoie

thebaz wrote: »

I have never run, nor handed over anything - even when threatened - if you're fearfull about a situation you need to question why you are there, and way up the risks afterwards - I believe if your intentions are sound, you will be ok, bearing in mind that many interesting images require risk - Cappa comes to mind, but he lost his life for his beliefs - For me life is full of risks, which are better confronted rather than hiding from

Yes, but I'm an unfit solitary female. One on one, I'll generally win. As soon as there's another person in the mix, I'm done for, as my "winning" comes down to height and bulk.


Take two people with equal confidence levels. Person 1 is confident, doesn't scare easily, and can run fast. Person 2 is confident, doesn't scare easily, but can't run more than 5ft without managing to do damage to themselves. Weighing up the risks, person 2 would probably be better off staying at home IF there is a high possibility that running might be required.

thebaz

The threat for me is not down to bulk, rather weapons - blades etc. - some days I would never take the risk, I remember walking into these stables in Darndale with a group of unknowns , or entering the Dunsink halting site, and as I crossed that line I wondered "what was I doing?" - nothing happened , got some images - but I took the risk of getting my gear nicked, or worse, way out of my comfort zone - stupidity maybe - took a few risks in Cambodia once or twice - but generally I try to stay within my own boundaries these days - and those will differ for different people

thebaz

... just re-reading the thread - Dragan's advice is much better than mine

ThOnda

I have ended in the huuuge crowd of football supporters, that got stranded on scorching square waiting three hours for the players to accept the national trophy. I ended up shooting them 20 cm straight into their faces. How come?
Observe.
You are the only one who could take care of you, if you don't have a team of people with you. You have to observe and to see what is going on around you. If it is about to get nasty, ask yourself if you have to be there and if you could get out of it without troubles.
Another hint is to blend into the crowd. Cheapish looking cameras like Leica will help to mask the fact that you are there only for photography. And be nice to the people around you, make friends in the crowd.

shrapnel222

just flash a fake press card and ask the rioters to smile at the camera. simple.:P

AnimalRights

This will be hardly a violent demo and I very seriously doubt they will be anti anyone with a Cam.
Trade union people if anything will want it covered.

stick-dan

ok just read the thread about the protest properly now, dear god, i've to be in dublin tomorrow, where is the protest taking place exactly? what streets are best to avoid...:(:(

Covey

stick-dan wrote: »

ok just read the thread about the protest properly now, dear god, i've to be in dublin tomorrow, where is the protest taking place exactly? what streets are best to avoid...:(:(

t'will be grand, bring a camera:p

Thoie

It's starting at Parnell Sq, and heading for Leinster House. So really, anywhere around the O'Connell St, Westmoreland St will probably be out for starters.

I've got a 4th floor window lined up on the route, which will be far safer and comfier than hanging out in the middle of the crowd It even comes with coffee and a massage!

Covey

Thoie wrote: »

It's starting at Parnell Sq, and heading for Leinster House. So really, anywhere around the O'Connell St, Westmoreland St will probably be out for starters.

I've got a 4th floor window lined up on the route, which will be far safer and comfier than hanging out in the middle of the crowd It even comes with coffee and a massage!

I'll probably go for the "rolling" multi-person massage, if you get me.

Fajitas!

shrapnel222 wrote: »

just flash a fake press card and ask the rioters to smile at the camera. simple.:P

Aye, shur aul Charlie got away grand, didn't he? :pac:

Thoie wrote: »

what's the best way to protect both yourself and your camera

Train down to Waterford at half 9 in the morning. Safe, sound, and plenty of pints.

AnimalRights wrote: »

At a funeral/Pub in Cabra but you have me intrigued, what is it?

Lol @ irony of this in light of the other thread. Also, my condolences.

However... I know there's been rumours of the protests turning nasty, and it's something to be aware of. It's situations like this that common sense comes in to play. Know where you want to be, know why you're there, and if needs be, where to go if anything kicks off.

If something is to kick off, make a decision, do you just want to get out of there or are you going to document it. Tbh, I'd most likely get out of dodge. Nothing may well happen to me, but I'm not going to take the risk. There's people in there documenting it for a living, I'll leave them to it.

If you do decide you're going to stay and shoot, just respect the others and the Gardai. The latter will have enough on their plate.

In other words, pints in Waterford, yeah?

kensutz

Good plan Al :pac:

Dodgykeeper

Have I missed something or is this not the civil service protest, its hardly Love Ulster all over again!

I went into the love Ulster with my Nikon D1h which had a dodgy battery and was meant to collect a new one in Berminghams, never got near it, didnt take a pic all day!

Dundhoone

This is just a protest march, not an all out strike. And people involved are professional working people.

Bring a thick plastic bag, if things went wrong put the cam in the bag and head in the opposite direction. fast.

Thoie

Covey wrote: »

I'll probably go for the "rolling" multi-person massage, if you get me.

I apparently don't

*starts googling "rolling multi-person massage"*

Oh, and Fajitas, as it happens I should have been in Waterford today, but a late work schedule is keeping me in Dublin. We were supposed to finish around 10am this morning, but I may not get to go anywhere at all as everything is running late!

Fajitas!

Thonda, is it still looking likely that you'll be down?

Let me know if you're about, I'm doing a family portrait about two and free from then on - Only in Kilkenny at the moment, but the weather is fantastic

Oh, and there's no protests. :pac:

sheesh

Dodgykeeper wrote: »

Have I missed something or is this not the civil service protest, its hardly Love Ulster all over again!

I went into the love Ulster with my Nikon D1h which had a dodgy battery and was meant to collect a new one in Berminghams, never got near it, didnt take a pic all day!

obviously you have never met a teacher or a civil servant up in dublin for a weekend.. oh Man they will be boozed up, knife wielding and riotous. Inspiring fear and loathing in all those around them. we can only hope that irate, out of work PAs and admin staff don't launch a counter protest, they pull hair and scratch and are never very far from a flaming Sambuca.

I'd bring body armor.

Dragan

Dodgykeeper wrote: »

Have I missed something or is this not the civil service protest, its hardly Love Ulster all over again!

For things like this, it's important to look at why the protest is occurring and not so much the people involved. Right now, the mood in Ireland is that the Government has basically squandered a lot of money, and generally mismanaged Ireland through the boom, leaving us open to very hard times during the recession. All around the country companies are down sizing, and people in the private sector have no choice, we just need to grin and bear it and work our lives around the fact that we may lose jobs and that finding further employment may be quite difficult.

There is an underlying feeling of anger towards the likes of Dublin Bus etc, as rather than dealing with the same realities we are all faced with they expect to be carried through it. That is what i have picked up on from message boards and conversation with a lot of people irl.

Straight away you need to look at today and accept there will be tension in the air. Add in the fact that many times throughout history a perfectly peaceful protest or march has been highjacked by people who feel that the best way to protest is violently, to do some damage and to take it to the man. And i am not talking about black blockers either, people who openly admit that as soon as things turn violent they will do, but rather people who show up to instigate trouble.

All it takes is one person to feel slighted enough, angry enough, drunk enough or stupid enough to do something that can make things go very wrong.

The make up of the crowd is not important, the mentality of what a crowd offers is. The psychological affect of marching down the road with a massive crowd of people can be amazing. People start to feel very powerful, very together, their own emotions begin to be overridden by the overall feel of the crowd, the mean mood if you will. It also plants the idea of being only one face in a see of faces, driving home the idea of a degree of annonymity and safety. People can end up doing things they would never normally do, for reasons that they would normally never allow to drive them.

It's a massively interesting field of study, one that i have made sure i know as past jobs have involved crowd control and the personal safety of many people.

I very much hope that today goes off peacefully but i don't know, that old sixth sense has me erring on the side of caution and avoiding town.

Thoie

Dragan wrote: »

I very much hope that today goes off peacefully but i don't know, that old sixth sense has me erring on the side of caution and avoiding town.

And that's the sixth sense that prompted me to ask the original question. I think with the mood of the country and the power of the mob, that all it might take are a few bad eggs (not necessarily union members/civil servants) to stir things up. When you hold a public protest like this you have absolutely no control over who joins in. You can't/don't ask people to empty out their pockets.

Borderfox

Canon 1d and 70-200, lift up and strike on the heads of who seeks to do you harm, repeat as often as neccessary

Thoie

Borderfox wrote: »

Canon 1d and 70-200, lift up and strike on the heads of who seeks to do you harm, repeat as often as neccessary

Then we should start a thread entitled "Help needed- how to clean brains off a 70-200 lens"

Ricky91t

Borderfox wrote: »

Canon 1d and 70-200, lift up and strike on the heads of who seeks to do you harm, repeat as often as neccessary

Then you'd end up with something like this

Borderfox

I say they broke at least 10 heads before that happened.

Morrisseeee

I see Adverts.ie has a nice 70-200 on sale at the mo, any ideas, should I go for it ????? !!!!! :eek::p

Thoie

Thoie wrote: »

Then we should start a thread entitled "Help needed- how to clean brains off a 70-200 lens"

Try here: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1079

democrates

No reports of violence on rte.ie anyway tG.

As dragan et al pointed out an element can plan problems despite the organisers' intentions, and they tend not to want anyone recording their activity.

"A person who is too nice an observer of the business of the crowd, like one who is too curious in observing the labor of bees, will often be stung for his curiosity” - Alexander Pope

The impulse to stay and record versus that to avoid trouble is not one I've been tested on, as my Dad said "you never know what you're going to do when your arse is on fire". If you saw children endangered that would change the equation of course, the gear becomes irrelevant in some situations.

sasar

Had only 70-200 with me, so only close-ups...

DutchGuy

Here's a few photos, unfortunately had a very old lens with me so had a few problems focusing...









I didn't notice any problems at all really, if anything there seemed to be a lack of emotion on the part of many protesters which made getting an interesting picture quite difficult.

challengemaster

Ricky91t wrote: »

Then you'd end up with something like this

Ouch!

Covey

challengemaster wrote: »

Ouch!

Already had one of those... ouch.:eek::eek:

AnimalRights

Didn't photo the march just grabbed these 2 shots on the way home...

Dodgykeeper

Jaysus they look like a nasty lot I am surprised it didnt all kick off!:rolleyes:

AnimalRights

Exactly lol, Thoie I think watches too many movies.

acquiescefc