Liverpool v Man City [Match Thread] Sun 3pm

jesus_thats_gre

People singling out Lucas for criticism is extremely unfair also. You are holding him to the same standard as Gerard and Alonso even though you know that he is far younger, has no where near the same amount of experience and less natural ability. Get some ****ing perspective for god's sake.

With all these knee-jerk reactions and ridiculous expectations, quite a few Liverpool fans are fast becoming the ultimate w@nkers of the premier league.

joe123

Smegball wrote: »

Lucas could become a good player yet, did he not win Young Player of the year or some other accolade in Brazil?

Give him a chance and stop making scapegoats for dropped points ffs.

Not making him a scapegoat at all! The fact is ive been saying hes not good enough for ages now. Damien Plessis looks as good as him. Hes had one or two good games but every other game he looks lost/gives away fouls/gives away the ball/gets yellow carded and generally looks pretty damn average.

Being young is one thing but if hes young we should have someone more capable in for games as important as this one. But we dont.

Why were we playing Lucas and Mascherano at home to a fragile city defence? As annoying as babel can be would it of not been a more appropiate set up to have him start up top with Torres?

Torres hadnt room to scratch his arse in the whole game all the while Lucas wanders around doing nothing much.

Smegball

joe123 wrote: »

Not making him a scapegoat at all! The fact is ive been saying hes not good enough for ages now. Damien Plessis looks as good as him. Hes had one or two good games but every other game he looks lost/gives away fouls/gives away the ball/gets yellow carded and generally looks pretty damn average.

Being young is one thing but if hes young we should have someone more capable in for games as important as this one. But we dont.

Wasn't directed at you specifically lad.

ShooterSF

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

People singling out Lucas for criticism is extremely unfair also. You are holding him to the same standard as Gerard and Alonso even though you know that he is far younger, has no where near the same amount of experience and less natural ability. Get some ****ing perspective for god's sake.

With all these knee-jerk reactions and ridiculous expectations, quite a few Liverpool fans are fast becoming the ultimate w@nkers of the premier league.

I think there in lies the problem. Most pool fans I know don't berate him because he's not living up to potential (ala Babel/Nani) but rather that he shouldnt be anywhere near that starting 11.

Ardent

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

People singling out Lucas for criticism is extremely unfair also. You are holding him to the same standard as Gerard and Alonso even though you know that he is far younger, has no where near the same amount of experience and less natural ability. Get some ****ing perspective for god's sake.

With all these knee-jerk reactions and ridiculous expectations, quite a few Liverpool fans are fast becoming the ultimate w@nkers of the premier league.

6 months of criticism is knee-jerk?

jesus_thats_gre

Smegball wrote: »

Lucas could become a good player yet, did he not win Young Player of the year or some other accolade in Brazil?

Give him a chance and stop making scapegoats for dropped points ffs.

Indeed...

The Bola de Ouro (Golden Ball) is an award given each year, since 1973, by the authoritative Brazilian magazine Placar to the best player in the Brazilian National Championship. It is practically the equivalent to a Footballer of the Year award



2005 : Carlos Tévez (Corinthians)
2004 : Robinho (Santos FC)
2003 : Alex (Fenerbahce)
2002 : Kaká (São Paulo FC)
2001 : Alex Mineiro (Atlético Paranaense)

lint316

Smegball wrote: »

Give him a chance and stop making scapegoats for dropped points ffs.

Wha?? How many chances has he been given? He's been at the club for nearly 2 years

jesus_thats_gre

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

People singling out Lucas for criticism is extremely unfair also. You are holding him to the same standard as Gerard and Alonso even though you know that he is far younger, has no where near the same amount of experience and less natural ability. Get some ****ing perspective for god's sake.

With all these knee-jerk reactions and ridiculous expectations, quite a few Liverpool fans are fast becoming the ultimate w@nkers of the premier league.

internet tough guy

juvenal

Looking at the reaction here it sounds like a draw was a fair result. Liverpool haven't been winning the home games that matter and also appear to lack as many game breakers as their challengers, which just highlights the disparity between the quality in the squads.

While Man Utd and Liverpool have similar away records, (in fact Liverpool have a better record on the road, with 8-4-1 against Utd's 7-4-2) it's the home record that tells the story of the title race so far.

Records at home:

|W |L |D
Liverpool|7|0|6
Man Utd|12|0|1

coco06

Liverpool were pushing for a title, it is not a place for a guy to learn his trade with so much pressure on him. it's not fair on him. we need consistency to wrap a game up, then bring the likes on Lucas on.

think it may benefit him to go on loan for a while where he is not under so much pressure and analysis.

Lucas, dossenna, arbeloa, babel, benny not good enough to be in a Liverpool team that is looking to win a title imo

Smegball

lint316 wrote: »

Wha?? How many chances has he been given? He's been at the club for nearly 2 years

He's still young? Could still develop into a good midfielder. Not everybody blossoms into a superstar at such a young age ala Torres, Fabregas etc etc.

jesus_thats_gre

Ardent wrote: »

6 months of criticism is knee-jerk?

This reaction may not be knee-jerk but the expectations are certainly ridiculous.. Singling out a young 21 year old every time we draw a match is pathetic..

joe123

ShooterSF wrote: »

I think there in lies the problem. Most pool fans I know don't berate him because he's not living up to potential (ala Babel/Nani) but rather that he shouldnt be anywhere near that starting 11.

Exactly. People part of the defend lucas brigade, fair enough give him time etc but he starts frequently! Babel doesnt get half as much game time yet people get on his back every chance they can.

Its quite funny how people still really defend benitez and call it Knee-jerk reactions lol. In fairness Benitez discontent among fans has been growing along time.

Yes we may be second but we have never looked like a title challenging team. Put our preformances along with some of benitez treatment of players over the last while ala Alonso and keane I dont blame some fans wanting him out.

Im still thinking give him another year. But no need to mock the fans wanting him out.

Ardent

coco06 wrote: »

Lucas, dossenna, arbeloa, babel, benny not good enough to be in a Liverpool team that is looking to win a title imo

You can include Kuyt in that too. We will never win the title while that guy remains an ever-present in the tream.

PHB

I think singling out Lucas is hilarious. He is a young player plying his trade. Blaming Lucas for your position is like blaming Anderson for United not winning, its just silly.

The problem with Lucas is how he is used, and how he is relied upon (he is 3rd choice CM after all, when in reality he should be 4th). Don't take it out on him.

mike65

The lack of depth speaks for itself.

Now I'm going to have a cry.

No I'm not damnit, I'll wait until after Wednesday for that!

podge018

People scapegoating Lucas need to get their priorities in order. He was probably our best player in the 1st half. He wasn't the problem at all.

jesus_thats_gre

ShooterSF wrote: »

I think there in lies the problem. Most pool fans I know don't berate him because he's not living up to potential (ala Babel/Nani) but rather that he shouldnt be anywhere near that starting 11.

I think that holding a 21 year old 4th choice midfielder that has plenty of potential but is obviously finding it difficult to get used to the PL to the same standards as Alonso and Gerard is a pointless exercise.

If Alonso and Gerard are available I would obviously prefer them on the pitch but he is more than good enough to be our 4th choice. He should only be in the starting 11 when better alternatives don't exist - just like today.

joe123

podge018 wrote: »

People scapegoating Lucas need to get their priorities in order. He was probably our best player in the 1st half. He wasn't the problem at all.

In fairness you should read some of the posts that are on about him. Most people arent blaming Lucas they just feel he is too young/not good enough AT THE MINUTE to have such an important part of the team.

As someone said its like anderson in the united squad except Anderson isnt being heavily relied on to preform.

Its Benitezs fault they way he uses Lucas. If we had a better squad Id think a Loan to another premier league club would do him the world of good. But unless we get some more strength in depth in we cant afford to loose him no matter how averagely hes playing.

Ardent

I think the criticism of Lucas week after week is misguided and unfair. It's not his fault he's not good enough or that he's being picked for every game. People should direct their criticism towards the manager.

jesus_thats_gre

joe123 wrote: »

just feel he is too young/not good enough AT THE MINUTE to have such an important part of the team.

Saying this and even adding that you would prefer Gerard or Alonso on instead of him is a perfectly reasonable statement.


The posts regarding Lucas on this thread or previous threads are not perfectly reasonable statements, hence the reaction to what you and others are getting.

coco06

joe123 wrote: »

In fairness you should read some of the posts that are on about him. Most people arent blaming Lucas they just feel he is too young/not good enough AT THE MINUTE to have such an important part of the team.

As someone said its like anderson in the united squad except Anderson isnt being heavily relied on to preform.

Its Benitezs fault they way he uses Lucas. If we had a better squad Id think a Loan to another premier league club would do him the world of good. But unless we get some more strength in depth in we cant afford to loose him no matter how averagely hes playing.

Exactly, it is not his fault he has so much responsibility, its down to the manager and he obviously thinks he can handle it and can cover for alonso/gerrard.

Utd at the start of the season blood their young lads and give them a lot of game time but do you notice at this stage (business end) it is the likes of scholes and giggs that are relied upon and because they have the experience they deliver.

we dont have that experience so its a tough one.

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote: »

The problem with Lucas is how he is used, and how he is relied upon (he is 3rd choice CM after all, when in reality he should be 4th). Don't take it out on him.

Jesus, what have you started!!

This funny that not one of them were capable of working this out for themselves..

joe123

Just a thought but what would peoples thoughts on the likes of Agger having a more of a midfield berth in place of lucas at times? Hes comfortable on the ball and has a cracker of a shot. Aurelio would be an option aswell just a pity we have dossena as cover for him.

Headshot

whats the reaction on on rawk

many rafa out threads:D

jesus_thats_gre

Headshot wrote: »

whats the reaction on on rawk

many rafa out threads:D

Have never actually had a look at the site. The reputation it has is sufficient for me never to want to visit it.

joe123

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Saying this and even adding that you would prefer Gerard or Alonso on instead of him is a perfectly reasonable statement.


The posts regarding Lucas on this thread or previous threads are not perfectly reasonable statements, hence the reaction to what you and others are getting.

No no I still maintain what I say about lucas hes not good enough to be playing for us.

Sure he may be good in a year of two but at this moment and time I hate seeing him play in a Liverpool shirt. Simple as that and im not going to apoligise for it.

Anyways ive better things to be doing than reading posts from people that think they are correct on everything. Pretty pointless.

herbieflowers

Haha, the ol' scapegoat mentality resurfaces once more!

Headshot

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Have never actually had a look at the site. The reputation it has is sufficient for me never to want to visit it.

i know

but as smegball said

Smegball wrote: »

Wouldn't mind listening to some knee jerk RAFA OUT rants either :pac::pac:

Lucus is a poor player even if he is young. Anyone on here that goes to pool games knows that the crowd are on his back from the first whistle every game he plays.

The fans have never taken to him and for good reason, he has cost us plenty of games with reckless challenges, misplaced passes in dangerous areas and most importantly consistant poor perfromances.

Playing him with Mash in hindsight just doesnt work, 2 defensive midfielders are never gonna create much. In Rafas defence though there wasnt much on the bench, Babel cant be trusted tbh. Maybe Spearing should have been given a chance, he is far too inexperienced though.

I still think Liverpool will finish the season strongly but the way united are playing it probably wont be enough but it aint over yet. They need them to slip up in a few games including losing to us. Best chance of a trophy is CL and we are more than capable of getting through the Madrid tie especially with the 2nd leg being at home.

SlickRic

we should have won the game, simple as.

city played really well, especially at the very end of the 1st half and for the first halfhour of the second. de jong was fabulous, as was his partner kompany. ireland was a class apart at times. robinho showed flashes of genius. bellamy was a nuisance.

but this was a game where liverpool should have won. this does not imply that city didn't deserve something from the game themsleves, because they certainly did, nor does it imply that liverpool deserved to win. it's a game we should have won as title chasers.

we had the chances. and those are chances utd do not, and have not messed up since christmas. that, unfortunately, is the difference.

well done masch and dirk today too. two top performances amid a sea of averageness imo in the liverpool team. dirk in those last 20mins was a man possessed. credit where it's due to him.

Headshot

just wondering did Dossena play very bad ,why i ask is the bbc 5 live commentry were out spoken on their views on Dossena saying stuff like he shouldnt be playing and they cant believe he's italys first pick etc etc etc

jesus_thats_gre

SlickRic wrote: »

city played really well, especially at the very end of the 1st half and for the first halfhour of the second. de jong was fabulous, as was his partner kompany. ireland was a class apart at times. .

Forgot to mention DeJong and Kompany in my initial post. Both of them played extremely well and look like they could be the real deal for City. Ireland also played extremely well..

coco06

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Cos Liverpool needed to win the game and Keane could have proved the difference.

so could have bellamy,crouch pennant.. (maybe not veronin) but ye get the jist.
time to move on buddy, let it go..

jesus_thats_gre

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Cos Liverpool needed to win the game and Keane could have proved the difference.

Ah come on, I defended you a few weeks ago too...

Mr.Nice Guy

Highsider wrote: »

Blatant trolling..Nothing to do with todays game and meant to cause an arguement which you are'nt going to get. Reported

I just thought it would get a laugh. Tough crowd. Here's what Mark Lawrenson said on the game incidentally:

"Without Alonso, without Gerrard and with Torres still only looking about 80% fit, you're looking for match-winners, and you can't see anyone. Liverpool brought on El Zhar, and yesterday, Man United brought on Carlos Tevez. That's the difference between the best and second best teams in this division."

jesus_thats_gre

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Here's what Mark Lawrenson said on the game incidentally:

"Without Alonso, without Gerrard and with Torres still only looking about 80% fit, you're looking for match-winners, and you can't see anyone. Liverpool brought on El Zhar, and yesterday, Man United brought on Carlos Tevez. That's the difference between the best and second best teams in this division."

Tis Rafa's and Lucas' fault!!

therecklessone

Mod note:

This thread is for match discussion of the Liverpool-Man City game. Any trolling or thread spoiling from here on will be deleted and users infracted as necessary.

If you have a problem with a post report it, do not comment on-thread as it will be viewed as back seat modding.

Tusky

Few general points.

1. Lucas is 4th choice CM, not 3rd. It goes Alonso --> Mascherano --> Gerrard --> Lucas

2. Lucas needs time. He has actually improved a lot this season despite what a lot of fans would have you believe. His tackling has let him down though and thus, put him in negative light. Either way, its far too soon to judge him and there are much more important parts of the team that need improving for now. Hes good enough to be 4th choice and one day, he might be good enough to be 2nd, who knows ?

3. Dossena is not Italys first choice left back. He only has a handful of caps. Grosso is their first choice.

4. Today has underlined the fact there just arent enough quality attacking players at the club. This needs to be rectified.

5. How can anyone criticize Torres ? He may have had a quiet game generally, but he set up two chances, both of which should have been scored.

mike65

el rabitos wrote: »

i predict a 10 page long thread if we lose, 5 if we win

Aha, you didn't consider a draw and 12 pages so far did you? :pac:

SlickRic

Tusky wrote: »

4. Today has underlined the fact there just arent enough quality attacking players at the club. This needs to be rectified.

nail on the head.

i think our squad at the moment is pretty close to being a title-winning one apart from our depth of attacking options.

seriously.

Highsider

Very average performance today. What really worried me was what looked like a lack of importance as to the result to some of the players. Dirk and Masher apart we in the first half in particular where rather well sh?te TBH. Looks like we will have to settle for another European cup this season

That_Guy

Was it Bellamy's goal or was it classed as an own goal?

A7X

That_Guy wrote: »

Was it Bellamy's goal or was it classed as an own goal?

Think it was an own goal.

daithijjj

Its quite sad to see all the garbage posted about babel in this thread. He got his usual 10 mins to produce the miracle that our average squad couldnt manage for the whole game. There is no creativity and no threat in the final third, torres might aswell have been playing on his own in the city half at times and by his standards didnt have a great game either. The reason for this is nobody able to create anything for him and 2 def mids who never get close to the opposition box.

Dirk kuyt was having another nightmare until he got lucky in front of goal and the usual kuyt diehards acclaim him as a saviour, narrow-minded stuff indeed.

That_Guy

A7X wrote: »

Think it was an own goal.

And here was me thinking that Bellamy was actually worth his price tag.

Headshot

A7X wrote: »

Think it was an own goal.

own goal which im very pissed about

i had money on him to score first :mad:

That_Guy

Headshot wrote: »

own goal which im very pissed about

i had money on him to score first :mad:

That's unlucky.

Headshot

That_Guy wrote: »

That's unlucky.

im dying to see it

anybody got a link the the goal

That_Guy

Headshot wrote: »

im dying to see it

anybody got a link the the goal

http://www.101greatgoals.com/


Try this mate.