Electrical Service Improvement Suggestions!

cossworxenergy

Hi everybody,

Currently working as an electrical contractor allbeit not alot happening. I was just wondering has anybody any suggestions on improving services of an electrician??
What do you expect of a good electrician??
Anything that annoys you??
Suggestions of service improvements??
Products or services you find hard to get??
Payment options? Would you use credit card? Would you finance your work? DO you prefer cash? Would you use a service whereby you pay a fee for a year like the AA and get unlimited house calls to fix faults??

Any suggestions would be hugely appreciated.

blindman

If you have time on your hands, you could try writing a rule book about where electrical/alarm wiring should be run/ not run.
Think about places where customers are likely to need to drill holes over the many years that they enjoy their property.

Kashkai

What annoys me is the quick in and out of a lot of tradesmen, not just sparks, when they want to get the job done quick but no emphasis on doing it well. Since the completion of my house build, I've had to take off 5 light switches to re-insert wires that had come loose, same with 4 sockets, had to replace the cooker switch after a loose neutral had come loose and fused itself, had to replace the timer switch on the heating system as it was wired incorrectly and burned itself out. The sparks was a registered contractor but his work was sh1te of the highest order. Even the little things like putting switches and plugs on the wall STRAIGHT was beyond him. Where I had 2 sockets beside each other, he'd leave a gap so you could see the hole in the wall between them that I had to fill in myself. Finally, he broke a lot of the screw brackets in the socket boxes so that when you pull out a plug from the socket, the faceplate comes away with it.

Simply put, I do most of the electrical work around my house as I take my time to do it right. If I had the confidence in a good sparks, I'd pay him to do it in half the time it takes me though.

davelerave

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

What annoys me is the quick in and out of a lot of tradesmen, not just sparks, when they want to get the job done quick but no emphasis on doing it well. Since the completion of my house build, I've had to take off 5 light switches to re-insert wires that had come loose, same with 4 sockets, had to replace the cooker switch after a loose neutral had come loose and fused itself, had to replace the timer switch on the heating system as it was wired incorrectly and burned itself out. The sparks was a registered contractor but his work was sh1te of the highest order. Even the little things like putting switches and plugs on the wall STRAIGHT was beyond him. Where I had 2 sockets beside each other, he'd leave a gap so you could see the hole in the wall between them that I had to fill in myself. Finally, he broke a lot of the screw brackets in the socket boxes so that when you pull out a plug from the socket, the faceplate comes away with it.

Simply put, I do most of the electrical work around my house as I take my time to do it right. If I had the confidence in a good sparks, I'd pay him to do it in half the time it takes me though.

i can assure you that it really annoys good sparkies having to compete with these people on price.it's not always easy getting paid to take the time and do things 100%.some just don't care i'm afraid

cossworxenergy

Thats pure sh1te what your sparkie was up to. Did he charge you a fortune?? Hope you rang him up and got your money back.

Kashkai

cossworxenergy wrote: »

Thats pure sh1te what your sparkie was up to. Did he charge you a fortune?? Hope you rang him up and got your money back.

We were building a house and he was a subbie to the builder who in turn was a ****€r of the highest order. It was only cause we held back retention that we got the builder to send his sparks around to us for the best part of a year as the main circuit breaker was constantly tripping for no apparent reason. Even when we were out of the house and not using power (with the exception of the fridge perhaps - had that checked btw and it was fine), the circuit breaker would trip. Eventually is was traced to several sockets that were wired poorly and to the oil burner where a loose wire was giving a poor connection (I spotted this myself after he was stumped). However, once the retention was paid over, the sparks wouldn't answer our calls when further electrical problems came up.

Now I'm no sparks (just know what I can and cannot do without killing myself) but even I can say that this guy's work was shoddy beyond belief. If you saw his cable runs in the attic, you'd die laughing or with embarrassment for what a fellow electrician had done. No attempt to notch joists to lay the cables down nevermind drilling through them to keep them out of harms way of anyone walking in the attic. They criss cross each other all over the place. I can go on and on but you get the picture.

I know he's just a cowboy and a slur on the good names of other electricians but with hindsight, I guess his cheap quote appealed to the builder who chose to have a cheap shoddy sparks to increase his own profit margin, rather than take on a dearer guy who knew what he was doing.

edward543350

if you get a bad sparks or not happy with the work just report them to escca or reci groups if there registered. there test report for your house should be with them and then ask them to double check the work.its the only way were gona get rid of crowboy sparks.:o

Stoner

edward543350 wrote: »

if you get a bad sparks or not happy with the work just report them to escca or reci groups if there registered. there test report for your house should be with them and then ask them to double check the work.its the only way were gona get rid of crowboy sparks.:o

+1

Andrea B.

...........just report them to escca or reci groups if there registered. there test report for your house should be with them and then ask them to double check...........

While watching Hell freeze over.

To the OP. Add value, it's how to drum up business. Use fillers, plaster over damage, clean up and give transparent dockets outlining service and materials costs. Clean up. Leave it shining.
Be strategic with advertising. For domestic customers, have a flyer and single page website with referrals they can telephone (which they won't). For commercial, have something like a €2 small desk clock (battery and set!) with a sticker on it with your details.

Pick up phone a few days later, especially if it was a troubleshoot, and ask if issue is resolved.

I'm still getting calls from old repeat customers and recommendations even though I have been PAYE since October.

Add value. Screw in the dodgy door handle on the way out !!!

fishdog

davelerave

i can assure you that it really annoys good sparkies having to compete with these people on price

+ 1
Very true. The problem is most people dont know a good sparkie from a bad one until it is too late!

if you get a bad sparks or not happy with the work just report them to escca or reci groups if there registered. there test report for your house should be with them and then ask them to double check the work

This is good advice, but from personal experience with doing this with RECI for my own house they wanted me to put in writing exactly what the issues were before coming out. Unless you have electrical experience you may not be aware of what is electrically wrong (however I am a sparks). I cant comment for the ECSSA, because I never calle dout on of their inspectors.

Like Prosperous Dave's sparkie mine refused to use a measuring tape for anything! Every socket / light switch etc. is at a different height! The RECI inspector pointed out (correctly) that this was not a breach of regulations. My point is that it was very unprofessional.

At least the inspector forced the sparkie to fix some undeniable issues with the installation. We disagreed on other regulations (like a 1.5 flex protected by a 32A MCB!).

Andrea B.

Add value, it's how to drum up business. Use fillers, plaster over damage, clean up and give transparent dockets outlining service and materials costs. Clean up. Leave it shining.

+ 1

Andrea B.

I'm still getting calls from old repeat customers and recommendations even though I have been PAYE since October.

Me too and I have not been a contractor since 2006

blindman

blindman wrote: »

If you have time on your hands, you could try writing a rule book about where electrical/alarm wiring should be run/ not run.
Think about places where customers are likely to need to drill holes over the many years that they enjoy their property.

Sorry to be quoting myself here but i'm suprised nobody even commented on this. Something that is not in any regulations but should be.
Most electricians place light switches 6 to 9 inches to one side of patio doors, with the wiring routed right where brackets for curtain poles need to be fitted, if curtains are to be pulled back to clear the doorway.
Customers are always asking me to drill in this area, then ask can I not scan it, whats the point in scanning if I already know the wiring is there.
Please keep wiring more than 1 foot away from windows/exterior doors.

cossworxenergy

All you have to do is put the fixing beside the cables. The cables are insulated and most times their put in plastic conduit to protect em. Just take care in using fixings. Use ur scanner t locate the live cables.

fishdog

If you have time on your hands, you could try writing a rule book about where electrical/alarm wiring should be run/ not run.

There is a rule that I cant quote word for word, but it goes something like this:

All cable runs within a wall must be verical.

Therefore if you see a switch or socket you should expect that the cables run vertically from it (in theory anyway!).

blindman

Sorry. Bit of a drunken rant last nite, anyway got some replies. This is an important issue for me as I hang 10 to 20 curtain poles a week. Idealy a curtain on patio doors should be 9 to 12 inches each side of recess. For one thing this usualy hides the light switch. Idealy the pole support should be 6 to 9 inches from recess so that curtains can retract fully when necessary. This is the most likely area I find cables.
Yes, cables should run vertically but there doesn't appear to be a rule about if this is from the left,center or right of switch box. I often find there are 4 to 6 switches and multiple cables in the wall. My personal rule is I won't drill within 3 inches of a scanned cable , often a cable behind foil backed drylining won't scan at all, I just know its there somewhere.

The cables are insulated and most times their put in plastic conduit to protect em. Just take care in using fixings.

Insulation and plastic conduit will not protect cables from a sds drill bit. Taking care is something I do, I'm just asking electricians to take care of where they put cables. With the increasing use of metal curtain poles I'm convinced its only a matter of time until someone gets killed.

cossworxenergy

Yea man i know insulaton r plastic conduit wudnt stop a drill bit just sayin that power wudnt jump from it to the metal fixing. Also if ya did drill through a cable it would trip the mcb causing a short so you wouldnt place the curtain pole on top of it den. Lighting circuits are only 10 amps and wouldnt kill anyone. Would be a shock allright but no danger. Its the current flowing though something that is most important. The voltage doesnot matter. I think it takes about 40+ amps to kill someone or seriously injured. Nearest current to that in a house would be your shower or cooker.
anyway happy curtain hangin!!

blindman

I said killed not electrocuted. Last time I got a shock (3 year ago) I fell of a ladder and ended in hospital, could easily have been killed
Does a mcb protect the lighting circuit I thought it was just sockets?
What about the possibility of my screw hitting a wire that isn't commisioned yet i.e. wiring for outside lighting on new build.

blindman

I just educated myself a little re mcb rcd. Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is. A rcd will almost certainly trip if drill bit contact is made with with protected wiring. A mcb will trip if an excessive current passes through it for an excessive time. A mcb wont always trip if a live wire is drilled through with a cordless or double insulated drill. Lighting circuits in my house are not protected by rcd, I just checked, ammeter went off scale before mcb tripped. (don't try this at home)

fishdog

cossworxenergy:

Also if ya did drill through a cable it would trip the mcb causing a short

Not necessarily!! It is possible to drill through the live or neutral without the MCB operating.

cossworxenergy:

Lighting circuits are only 10 amps and wouldnt kill anyone.

10 amps flowing through a person at mains voltage would kill most people! It is generally agreed that 50mA at 230 volts can kill a person, that is why RCDs for domestic installations are designed to operate at 30mA. In hospitals RCDs are often specified to operate at an imbalance of just 10mA.

cossworxenergy:

I think it takes about 40+ amps to kill someone or seriously injured

:eek: That would cook them alright!!! In theory 800 times less has the potential to kill someone as well (0.05 amps at 230 volts)

blindman:

A rcd will almost certainly trip if drill bit contact is made with with protected wiring.

It will operate if there is a difference in the current flowing down the live compared to the current flowing back on the neutral. If the circuit is healthy the live current = the neutral current. In domestic installations an imbalance of 30mA (0.03 amps) should be enough to make the RCD trip.

blindman:

A mcb will trip if an excessive current passes through it for an excessive time

Correect. Similar to a fuse.

blindman:

A mcb wont always trip if a live wire is drilled through with a cordless or double insulated drill.

It may not, but if the metal drill bit causes a short with an earth or neutral it may.

blindman:

Does a mcb protect the lighting circuit I thought it was just sockets?

With domestic installations wired in the last 20 years it would be normal fo light to be protected by MCBs.

blindman:

Lighting circuits in my house are not protected by rcd

This would be normal. Most permanently connected equipment such as lights are not protected by the RCD. A notable exception would be instantenous showers (like a Triton T90).

Woddle

I use to be an electrician and I think this thread alone proves the difficulties that customers have in finding a decent knowledgable electrician.

The fact that cossworxenergy can make a statement that 10 amps isn't enough to kill anyone is shocking.
Continuing on from this mindset ''ah sure theres no point in earthing that chrome switch, sure it's not going to kill anyone''

I was lucky enough to have served my time with a guy called Terry Kelly who thought me the right way of doing things and how to be professional and if you fu$$ed up you were def going to know about it.

davelerave

the 'let go current' is apparently 16ma , and the body's resistance is lowered at 'higher' voltages resulting in massive current flow .
nice formula this one :Rtotal = Rskin(in) + Rinternal + Rskin(out)
http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=6793

fishdog

I use to be an electrician and I think this thread alone proves the difficulties that customers have in finding a decent knowledgable electrician.

+ 1

There are some talented electricians out there but the standard is all over the place. Self regulation does not work IMHO. The high quality electricians can not compete on price with the people that are willing to cut corners.

blindman

davelerave wrote: »

nice formula this one :Rtotal = Rskin(in) + Rinternal + Rskin(out)
QUOTE]

I'm not an electrician but I don't think this formula is correct. Isn't that the formula for resistances in series?

blindman

Woddle wrote: »

The fact that cossworxenergy can make a statement that 10 amps isn't enough to kill anyone is shocking.
Continuing on from this mindset ''ah sure theres no point in earthing that chrome switch, sure it's not going to kill anyone''

I'm regularly shocked at what I see. A lady today asked me if I could tidy up some wiring hanging from her soffit as she was not going to get outside lighting done for a while. The cable was 1.5 twin and earth, untaped. I decided to wrap insulating tape around end of cable and tie it up with cable ties. The bloody thing was live, couldn't even find a switch for it.

davelerave

blindman wrote: »

davelerave wrote: »

nice formula this one :Rtotal = Rskin(in) + Rinternal + Rskin(out)
QUOTE]

I'm not an electrician but I don't think this formula is correct. Isn't that the formula for resistances in series?

it calculates the body resistance as contact points(skin) + internal body resistance i assume because the external skin resistance is so high(parallel path) .this other picture shows supply resistance and boots and floor covering included http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/3.4.2.htm hopefully someone here can confirm the relative current flows through internal body and external skin path at mains voltage

blindman

I guess its not quite important what the leathal dose of electrons is.
The point I'd like to make is this. People that work with electricity shouldn't expose themselves to electric shock, they also have a duty of care not to expose others to electric shock.
I don't think its ok for electricians to bury cables in a wall exactly where somebody else needs to drill holes. Plenty of other places to run cables but curtains look rediculous if not centered on a window. Also placing switches where they are going to be obscured by curtains isn't in the householders best interests either.

davelerave

i would be aware of leaving a gap for curtains like a lot of sparkies that care about their work.obviously the problem you face is that you're not generally involved in the project early enough to notify customer/sparkie of this requirement:(

blindman

you're not generally involved in the project early enough to notify customer/sparkie of this requirement

Yes. But remember, if a house lasts 100 years, even different generations will be drilling those walls. I think its time for a written rule in the reci book.

davelerave

blindman wrote: »

Yes. But remember, if a house lasts 100 years, even different generations will be drilling those walls. I think its time for a written rule in the reci book.

that won't happen it's just common sense