Adams invites Labour, Greens to join SF in 'new alliance'

Dr Galen

ah jesus, dude you know what I meant!

I'll rephrase just for you then man........substitute home in my previous post for the north

dlofnep

Look - whether you like him or not, it's irrelevant. He is the head of a political party which spans the 32 counties of Ireland. As the head, he has every right to make a statement relating to the party. To tell him to feck back up the north is childish.

Dr Galen

ok for the record, I have met him a few times and on a personal note i quite liked him, so this isn't an anti-Gerry thing

i think the point that Mike is making is less to do with fecking off "up north" but more to do with how Gerry's role within politics within the Republic has been pretty limited, so really, making pronouncements and statements on the economy etc down in this neck of the woods seems a little strange to those of us less strident in our support or otherwise of SF than yourself.

Your right, he has under the constitution every right to his opinions and views etc etc, but we also have the right not to take some of these statments that seriously

spoonbadger

dlofnep wrote: »

SF would never enter Government with FG.

Fix'd yar post for ya there .

lostexpectation

mike65 wrote: »

He should feck off back up North and SF should elect a leader from the ROI for ROI business.

As for his proposition, its clearly an offer he knows will be turned down but it gets da meeja talking about SF so he's happy.

caoimhin is their southern leader thats was why i was hoping his speech was on tv, only saw mlmcd and ga

dlofnep

spoonbadger wrote: »

Fix'd yar post for ya there .

Very considerate of you. I'll bring you out for a beer sometime.

dlofnep

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

ok for the record, I have met him a few times and on a personal note i quite liked him, so this isn't an anti-Gerry thing

i think the point that Mike is making is less to do with fecking off "up north" but more to do with how Gerry's role within politics within the Republic has been pretty limited, so really, making pronouncements and statements on the economy etc down in this neck of the woods seems a little strange to those of us less strident in our support or otherwise of SF than yourself.

Your right, he has under the constitution every right to his opinions and views etc etc, but we also have the right not to take some of these statments that seriously

I don't really mind if you take it seriously or not. You're more than entitled to your opinion. I'm not going to chastise you for disagreeing with his policies or whatever. But what I will take issue with is someone telling him to feck back up north when he's the leader of a party which spans the 32 counties of Ireland. It's a childish and ignorant remark. Glad you had a positive meeting with him

Dr Galen

i don't think you should really be taking it that seriously, not as i meant it anyway. And I've no problem with saying that while on quite a few issues I have problems with SF's policies etc, others I'd broadly agree on.

Liked Big Gerry, wasn't too keen on Mary-Lou though......didn't warm to her,

anyway.........back on topic....do you think that this had a realistic chance of happening? how would it work?

blinding

It is because we have had no credible left wing alternative that the Gombeen men of FF have had a free run of this country for so long.
In a normal country when right wing parties make a disaster of running the country and are in hock to big business and to failed bankers then the alternative is to give an opportunity to the politics of the other end of the spectrum.
In the Ireland context that has to be Labour,Sinn Féin, and perhaps the greens if they wise up and ditch their present bed fellowes.

We cannot repeat the mistakes of the past and continue to allow tweedle dee and tweedle dum (Fianna Gael/Fine Fáil) to alternate which has their snouts deepest in the trough.

Though these times will be very difficult we must use this opportunity to advance the day that Ireland has a credible left wing goverment.

José Alaninho

blinding wrote: »

We cannot repeat the mistakes of the past and continue to allow tweedle dee and tweedle dum (Fianna Gael/Fine Fáil) to alternate which has their snouts deepest in the trough.

Someone watched Gerry's speech :pac:

Only messin, +1

nyarlothothep

looks like the Irish unification of 2024 may come true after all

José Alaninho

nyarlothothep wrote: »

looks like the Irish unification of 2024 may come true after all

LoL Star Trek fan? :P

dlofnep

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

i don't think you should really be taking it that seriously, not as i meant it anyway. And I've no problem with saying that while on quite a few issues I have problems with SF's policies etc, others I'd broadly agree on.

I'm not taking it seriously. I just felt the need to call him on his comment which I felt to be childish. No harm done

1huge1

dlofnep wrote: »

SF would never enter Government with FG.

And FG will never enter government with SF.

They claim that a united Ireland would have a better economy, fair enough but they are not basing that on anything, just the usual buzz words, properganda and bull**it I've come to expect from them.

dhorgan3

1huge1 wrote: »

And FG will never enter government with SF.

They claim that a united Ireland would have a better economy, fair enough but they are not basing that on anything, just the usual buzz words, properganda and bull**it I've come to expect from them.

What exactly do FG stand for, honestly? Sinn fein have their objectives clearly set out, and always have done from day one but...FG...just an "Opposition" Party who approach members of Six, the not so successful band from 'your a star' on RTE, to consider running for the local and european elections. What do ye bring to the table...ye are failures like the current government...So...let someone else come in because in all honesty they could not do a worse job then what has been done by FG & FF.

diverdriver

I'm all for getting rid of Fianna Fail, this single party has consistently run this country for the benefit of it's members and friends. Once again we see the result of their croneyism and corruption. The only amazing thing is how stupid the average voter is in constantly re-electing them.

However, the very last thing we need is an unholy alliance of the left running this country. We would rapidly turn into an Venezuela without oil and Cuba without sunshine and cigars or Castro.

The left in general is rubbing it's hands together in delight with this present crisis. That march today may at first glance seem to be genuine expression of public anger at the current crisis. But it was highly organised by the unions, who are utterly left leaning and full of officials who have a socialist agenda for this country. They will see this as their best chance since, well frankly, best chance ever to seize power. If this FF junta is toppled, we will see a heavily left wing Dail re-elected.

This would be a mistake. This won't be a 'new Labour' style government. This will be an old style socialist government. It will certainly rely on, higher taxes, nationalisation of many industries and anti capitalist policies. If you think things are bad now, watch what happens when this lot get going.

This country is in serious trouble, partly from the recession, partly from antics of the extended golden circle and FF. But also in danger from the behaviour of the sort of people likely to replace FF. The loony left who frankly are in pole position because FG has failed to impress in any form, particularly it's leader, whose charisma bypass operation was most successful. No one sees him as the man to get us out of this crisis. He is a dud.

We live in interesting times indeed!

Diogenes

The important thing to remember is not Adams desires for a united Ireland it's SFs economic policies for the South of Ireland, rather than their plans for a united Ireland. Thats pipe dream for decades rather than a current political objective. Anyone who says the economies of the North and Republic are reaching parity are deluding themselves. Northern Ireland is still massively subisidied by the British Government, and it's not like we can take on any extra economic burden.

Adams performance pre election on the Late Late show was shambolic, high on idealistic retoric and absolutely absent on pratical working solutions. In 2006 he was talking about increasing corporate tax to 30%. Ask any dog on the a limerick street in 2006, and it was a matter of when rather than if Dell were going and our corpo tax rate was the only thing keeping them here for the short term. Multinationals are flying out of this country, and the only three things that keep us remotely competitive is we're in the EU zone, a trained english speaking workforce, and a low corporation tax.

I'm not voting for SF for a variety of reasons, they're economically clueless being one of the many many good reasons.

eoinbn

dlofnep wrote: »

SF would never enter Government with FG.

From a policy PoV FG=FF. Now if I remember correctly SF were all for going into government with FF before the last election and even after it. Heck I believe, but I could be wrong, that Adams was even complaining that FG wouldn't talk to them after the election.

jpfahy

If the present Government collapses, which seems very likely sometime in the next few months as the economy worsens, then a large vacuum will be created by a collapse of the Fianna Fail and Green vote and losses for Fine Gael too. Labour and SF will fill this vacuum, make big gains and may be in a position to form a Government with the aid of some lefty independents (The likes of Richard Boyd-Barrett who will get in next time in Dun Laoghaire for example). Labour and SF are, after all, kindred spirits with common roots.
A year ago this would have been unthinkable - but then so was our economic collapse, bank nationalisation etc.
Be afraid, be very afraid..........

Dannyboy83

I would have thought aligning yourself to the Greens was suicide after what they've done.

Shows what I now.

dhorgan3

jpfahy wrote: »

Be afraid, be very afraid..........

Afraid of what? Things couldn't get much worse, could they? Today, we hear so many giving out about FF. Who voted them in for gods sake? It certainly wasn't me. No, Sinn feins economic policies are not that sound...but one thing you can't say is that they were the ones with the "Brown" envelopes. Bertie...what a joke. haughey, lawlor, the list is endless. :mad:

Pride Fighter

jpfahy wrote: »

If the present Government collapses, which seems very likely sometime in the next few months as the economy worsens, then a large vacuum will be created by a collapse of the Fianna Fail and Green vote and losses for Fine Gael too. Labour and SF will fill this vacuum, make big gains and may be in a position to form a Government with the aid of some lefty independents (The likes of Richard Boyd-Barrett who will get in next time in Dun Laoghaire for example). Labour and SF are, after all, kindred spirits with common roots.
A year ago this would have been unthinkable - but then so was our economic collapse, bank nationalisation etc.
Be afraid, be very afraid..........

I'd also expect Joe Higgins and Clare Daly to get in for SP. Also Brid Smith or Joan Collins will get in, they polled 2,000 votes each which they will combine when only 1 of them runs next time.

blinding

Fianna Gael/Fine Fáil will deliver the type of goverment that the money from dodgy developers/bankers can buy.
When are the Irish people going to wake up and realise that if they keep on doing the same old thing in the same old way that they will continue to get the same old results.

Keep on voting for Fianna Gael/Fine Fáil then you will keep on getting politicians that are in hock to the dodgy developers/bankers. Why would these politicians change when despite all the evidence some people continue to vote for them.

jpfahy

blinding wrote: »

Why would these politicians change when despite all the evidence some people continue to vote for them.

I agree, except it isn't some people it's most people

FTA69

dlofnep wrote: »

SF would never enter Government with FG.

Sinn Féin would sell their grannies to achieve power, you're only codding yourself if you think they would rule out coalition with anyone.

dlofnep

FTA69 wrote: »

Sinn Féin would sell their grannies to achieve power, you're only codding yourself if you think they would rule out coalition with anyone.

I disagree. SF & FG don't share cordial relations. It wouldn't be a very functional Government for two parties with polar opposite views on every single issue to be together. SF & Labour would have much more in common, so it makes sense to enter a coalition with them.

FTA69

dlofnep wrote: »

I disagree. SF & FG don't share cordial relations. It wouldn't be a very functional Government for two parties with polar opposite views on every single issue to be together. SF & Labour would have much more in common, so it makes sense to enter a coalition with them.

I'm not saying it will happen or anything, but that's because of Fine Gael's refusal to countanance such a coalition, Sinn Féin would be well up for it if the opportunity arose. I'm glad that Sinn Féin are pursuing this policy though, it's good news for the left.

turgon

Think about it this way: Fine Gael and Fianna Fail would be in opposition together. It could be the start of some form a amalgamation because they are basically the same thing.

is_that_so

dhorgan3 wrote: »

What exactly do FG stand for, honestly?

Law and Order?
Coherent economic policies
In favour of Europe.

These are things that SF do not really appear to stand for and the type of things that the population at large tend to vote for.

Slagging off another party does not somehow make SF any better. SF inhabit that anti-establishment left-wing zone that also includes those with republican sympathies. They cannot move toward the centre without losing large parts of that base. They would also run into the widespread tentacles of the larger parties. In effect they would become even more irrelevant than they appear to be at present. In one respect they are like FG, they need a new message, because the old one is fast becoming an anachronism.

As for the appeal by Adams, well why would they bother? Labour are riding high and has no need to align with anyone and inviting a party like the Greens, who could be wiped out in the next election is a sign of desperation.
I also think it is a tacit acknowledgement that SF need to find a new focus.

Voipjunkie

dlofnep wrote: »

SF would never enter Government with FG.

I would not be so sure SF seem to be able to twist any principle in the interests of power