Golden Circle Named

Zynks

The Raven. wrote: »

Ahem! Wrong quote or wrong author, Zynks !!

I have no idea how this happened. Quote corrected. Sorry The Raven

The Raven.

Zynks wrote: »

I have no idea how this happened. Quote corrected. Sorry The Raven

Apology accepted, Zynks !!

asdasd

asdasd wrote: »

I think they got a nationalized bank which has written off their loans, rather than a bank which went into receivership, with an administrator which called in the loans ( these loans and others) forcing them to hand over their assets - all their property - as collatoral. Seems good to me, from their point of view.

Nail on the mother****ing head.

I M Wright

The Raven. wrote: »

I suppose if the rezoned lands were in shorter supply they may have been more expensive. However, a huge amount of agricultural and amenity land was rezoned around the country during the boom, and yet the prices still went up at a phenomenal rate. This resulted in vast areas of environmental destruction, and excessive, incongruous development with lack of sufficient infrastructure. This hasn’t gone away. It is merely shelved for the time being.




Young people, desperate to start a family are vulnerable. The slick, upmarket advertising of residential properties, coupled with the availability of 100% mortgages, would be undoubtedly irresistible. These properties couldn’t have come on the market without the rezoning.

What has this got to do with the golden boys, one might ask. Plenty, I would say. Ridiculously wealthy property developers appear to be central to the problem.

I'm sure he has made his money by now!:eek:

dave-higgz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Circle_%28Iceland%29

What a coincidence

The Raven.

I M Wright wrote: »

I'm sure he has made his money by now!:eek:

Who !!

The Raven.

Zynks wrote: »

I have no issue with an open market. If a deal is good, go for it. That is why many of us are heading up North for our shopping.

The problem I have with the whole story is how there was literally nobody helping balance things out at all. Estate agents and banks we strongly biased and rootless.

But the big culprits were the government and the press. The government for doing nothing to calm things down a bit when they could ("the fundamentals are strong...") and actually stimulating it. But the press were the real whores of the story. They sold their opinions and souls for the sake of selling property ads. Sure, they paid a couple of writers with negative views, but the flashy stuff suggested all was good.

Young and inexperienced buyers had to chance to understand what was heading their way.

I would have jumped at the chance of a 100% mortgage. I’m so glad I didn’t have to. I have friends who took out high mortgages (with down-payments), and are left with houses that are worth much less than they paid for them, which they can’t sell.

I agree with your points about the government, press, estate agents, and banks. However, I have a particular aversion to the selfish, greedy developers, who are accumulating unprecedented wealth out of it. They are in a position to buy up huge areas of urban and beautiful rural lands for appallingly ugly developments, without the slightest consideration for the local communities and their quality of life. It has been one long nightmare, with some of us wondering when it would end. Things got so bad that we actually welcomed the recession. They really deserve to pay for what they have done.

I don’t know for certain who the golden circle members are, but would strongly suspect that at least some of them are wealthy developers.

NewDubliner

thebman wrote: »

That is true but corrupt practices are the reasons why most villages that are now towns have no services or anything else except massive housing estates that look hideous.

But isn't there 1.4bn or something in this years budget to build roads and other infrastructure to support these? This may also explain why they have not called off 'decentralisation'.

It's all about the construction industry.

Carawaystick

Diogenes wrote: »

The article is in the Sunday Times, The Irish times is amalgemated with the British Times on a Sunday. Never noticed that theres no Irish Times on a Sunday?

:rolleyes:

No it's not, the Irish times publishes one paper for the weekend, and states it's for Saturday and Sunday on the front. check it yourself next weekend.

yoshytoshy

With all these great Billion/million air developers ,where is Irelands national sports stadium ?

With all the wealth and bank support ,why don't we have a sports stadium ?
Fianna fail knew what they were like and thats why we don't have one.

Zynks

The Raven. wrote: »

I would have jumped at the chance of a 100% mortgage. I’m so glad I didn’t have to. I have friends who took out high mortgages (with down-payments), and are left with houses that are worth much less than they paid for them, which they can’t sell.

I agree with your points about the government, press, estate agents, and banks. However, I have a particular aversion to the selfish, greedy developers, who are accumulating unprecedented wealth out of it. They are in a position to buy up huge areas of urban and beautiful rural lands for appallingly ugly developments, without the slightest consideration for the local communities and their quality of life. It has been one long nightmare, with some of us wondering when it would end. Things got so bad that we actually welcomed the recession. They really deserve to pay for what they have done.

I don’t know for certain who the golden circle members are, but would strongly suspect that at least some of them are wealthy developers.

Developers, banks and estate agents have a very clear mission: profit, and anyone who expected otherwise must have had a few good surprises.

The government and the press (the decent ones) are supposed to be sources of balance and fairness. They weren't.

It can be claimed the press also targets profits. Yes, but through providing a decent and trustful service. The press has a social responsibility for fairness that developers and bankers certainly don't have.

The government has failed this country for decades when it comes to urban planning and rezoning. If estates lack infrastructure and facilities, if they are ugly and unsuitable, that is down to planners' failures and state policy of over-regulating zoning. Of course, people who bought low quality built, badly located houses are not totally exempt of guilt. There was a market for such stuff, so the builders built it and they mostly got away with it.

But again, the press and the government had the tools to bring reason to the market earlier. They failed the country.

I M Wright

sorry The Raven, the article joseph brand was referring to about Gerry Conlon was actually written in 2006

Carawaystick

yoshytoshy wrote: »

With all these great Billion/million air developers ,where is Irelands national sports stadium ?

With all the wealth and bank support ,why don't we have a sports stadium ?
Fianna fail knew what they were like and thats why we don't have one.

It's on Jones Road, Dublin3.
There'll be another stadium off Landsdowne road Dublin4 for minority sports..... It's getting funding from the govt and the largest english insurance company....

yoshytoshy

Carawaystick wrote: »

It's on Jones Road, Dublin3.
There'll be another stadium off Landsdowne road Dublin4 for minority sports..... It's getting funding from the govt and the largest english insurance company....

Croke park isn't state owned ,thank god.

NewDubliner

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Croke park isn't state owned ,thank god.

Did it benefit from government grants?

The Raven.

I M Wright wrote: »

sorry The Raven, the article joseph brand was referring to about Gerry Conlon was actually written in 2006

Thanks. Now I understand. I thought you meant someone else. The article was interesting. There has been so much development going on that I haven't been following that one, or the others mentioned.

yoshytoshy

NewDubliner wrote: »

Did it benefit from government grants?

We don't have a state run national sports stadium for worldwide games to be played at.
Croke park is a marvellous achievement ,but it has nothing to do with the foresight and work of fianna fail.

gollem_1975

yoshytoshy wrote: »

With all these great Billion/million air developers ,where is Irelands national sports stadium ?

With all the wealth and bank support ,why don't we have a sports stadium ?
Fianna fail knew what they were like and thats why we don't have one.

a sports stadium ? does the country need another one ?

the way things have turned out, the need for Landsdowne Road is also debatable.

the GAA seem to be happy enough to let the FAI and IRFU use Croke Park and the latter organisations seem to be able to fill the stadium.

Lansdowne road holds approx 30,000 less people.

thankfully the government didn't go ahead with the stadium in abbotstown.

it is a pity that the government and the sporting organisations did not come to an agreement back in the day that croke park would be used as the national stadium.

gollem_1975

yoshytoshy wrote: »

We don't have a state run national sports stadium for worldwide games to be played at.
Croke park is a marvellous achievement ,but it has nothing to do with the foresight and work of fianna fail.

are you defending fianna fail or attacking them ?

some would say that Fianna Fail are even closer to the GAA then they are to the developers :-)

eg: http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/1001/gaa.html

yoshytoshy

gollem_1975 wrote: »

a sports stadium ? does the country need another one ?

It's not an argument that I'll drag out ,it won't help anyone at this stage. But it is something that fianna fail could have got from the developers in return for the run on the country they got ,highen sight ,but it angers me.

yoshytoshy

gollem_1975 wrote: »

are you defending fianna fail or attacking them ?

some would say that Fianna Fail are even closer to the GAA then they are to the developers :-)

eg: http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/1001/gaa.html

Bertie ahern had ways of making himself out as a lord ,he knew then that they should have built a stadium.

old boy

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Croke park isn't state owned ,thank god.

yeah, but it got approx 23 million from bertie,

The Raven.

Zynks wrote: »

Developers, banks and estate agents have a very clear mission: profit, and anyone who expected otherwise must have had a few good surprises.

I am under no illusions about that.

The government has failed this country for decades when it comes to urban planning and rezoning. If estates lack infrastructure and facilities, if they are ugly and unsuitable, that is down to planners' failures and state policy of over-regulating zoning.

I’m not sure what you mean by over-regulated zoning. If it wasn’t for these regulations we would be in a much worse situation now, with every conceivable green space covered in concrete. I would welcome much stricter controls. It is not the actual estates that are lacking in infrastructure, but the towns, in terms of schools, amenities, transport, water and sewerage etc.

Of course, people who bought low quality built, badly located houses are not totally exempt of guilt. There was a market for such stuff, so the builders built it and they mostly got away with it.

It is not as simple as that. In early years of the property boom, a lot of houses were indeed badly built. It was the increasing regulations that improved the situation. A lot of people rushed into buying houses when they got thrown out of rented accommodation as owners rushed into selling, foolishly thinking that their properties had peaked in value. Little did they know. The low quality wasn’t the fault of the buyers. For many, they didn’t have much choice.

Anyway, I don’t wish to keep this thread off topic. The golden boys have probably legged it by now, or are keeping their heads down. I believe they haven’t been available for comment.

miju

this whole Golden Circle thing is doing irreparable damage to our banking system. It's not being reported by the Dept of Finance that some €10 billion in funds has been withdrawn from the banking system and moved to foreign shores within the last week.

Thats basically €3 billion more than and has effectively wiped out our "bailout" to help money flowing again so money will effectively be even tighter now just when the businesses need the banks to re-open some sort of credit supply.

Hate to say it but it may be time to assume the crash position

thebman

miju wrote: »

this whole Golden Circle thing is doing irreparable damage to our banking system. It's not being reported by the Dept of Finance that some €10 billion in funds has been withdrawn from the banking system and moved to foreign shores within the last week.

Thats basically €3 billion more than and has effectively wiped out our "bailout" to help money flowing again so money will effectively be even tighter now just when the businesses need the banks to re-open some sort of credit supply.

Hate to say it but it may be time to assume the crash position

Do you have a source for that or how do you know that.

It seems unbelievable.

Jackaa

I'm interested to know if the Government acted to secure the integrity of all the financial data in Anglo - i.e. is the information and data pertaining to all financial transactions of that bank the same now as it was prior to the raising of the bank re-capitalisation scheme?
Given the general incompetence of the political and regulation system in this country I wouldn't be surprised if it never even occurred to them.

Nate--IRL--

thebman wrote: »

Do you have a source for that or how do you know that.

It seems unbelievable.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/scandal-sees-836410bn-flood-out-of-country-1649052.html

Nate

The Raven.

miju wrote: »

this whole Golden Circle thing is doing irreparable damage to our banking system. It's not being reported by the Dept of Finance that some €10 billion in funds has been withdrawn from the banking system and moved to foreign shores within the last week.

The Indo article stated that 'Up to €10 billion in funds is believed to have left Ireland in the last seven days as details of the Anglo Irish Bank scandal emerged.' Why do they think it has left the country? It may not have done.

However, it is interesting to note that the tidy sum of €10 billion is exactly the same amount of money that British savers had in the bank (January 18, 2009).

It is thought that at least 100,000 British savers have about £10 billion in the bank.

Announcing the takeover, Ireland’s finance minister, Brian Lenihan, said: “We cannot afford the risk of any default in honouring the deposits — that is fundamental.”

Savers have also been rattled by Anglo Irish’s recent withdrawal from the UK Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS).

This would have meant compensation payments from Irish banks being topped up by the British government, but the bank withdrew from the scheme in November due to the Irish government’s promise of 100% protection for investors.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/savings/article5536516.ece

Will we ever know where it has gone? It could be simply a lack of faith in the Irish banks, or perhaps the people with hugh outstanding loans hiding the money, or a combination of all three.

nesf

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Grow up.

If you can't contribute anything worthwhile to the debate don't bother posting at all.

The Raven.

Jackaa wrote: »

I'm interested to know if the Government acted to secure the integrity of all the financial data in Anglo - i.e. is the information and data pertaining to all financial transactions of that bank the same now as it was prior to the raising of the bank re-capitalisation scheme?
Given the general incompetence of the political and regulation system in this country I wouldn't be surprised if it never even occurred to them.

Did you read the article?

According to financial sources, the significant movement of funds occurred ahead of the release of the Anglo-Irish Bank and the PricewaterhouseCoopers reports.

It also has emerged that the PricewaterhouseCoopers (PWC) report into Anglo Irish Bank, which was released in highly edited form late on Friday night, omitted large sections of the bank's Irish loan book, the bank's structure and failed to "discuss with management about the bank's profit and loss account"

PWC admitted it did not review "relevant financial and management information", and did not "check any underlying information, the adequacy of security or valuation reporting." The PWC team in their Anglo examination failed to have detailed discussions with management on the bank's profit and loss account, and did not discuss reasons for movements of funds.

In addition, the PWC report phase II failed to examine so-called smaller loans under €350m, leaving massive holes in the comprehensiveness of the report.

It doesn't look very thorough to me. I suppose the golden circle have left nothing there to freeze. Anything is possible :rolleyes:!!