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Garda Earns €80,990 in overtime!
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The state are obliged to protect the public from any form of terroirist or subversive group by collecting intelligence, stopping and searching where suspicion arises and monitoring their movement.
What's subversive and terroristic about Éirigi? They are the only Republican party which isn't linked to an armed group. Basically you're suggesting it is fine to harass political activists engaged in peaceful political activity simply because you disagree with their broader goals. When Éirigi first set up in 2006 the Branch were approaching activists in the street asking what the craic was, fair enough in my opinion, they were simply gaining the measure of the group. However two years later they're still up to the same lark which simply demonstrates the fact that some people believe being a Republican is a crime in itself.The Eirigi party seeks a British withdrawal from Ireland and the establishment of a 32-county republic.
Shock horror! Send in the secret police at once! Fianna Fáil also aspire to a united Ireland, I don't see a dozen Branchmen at their commemorations, taking their car registrations, stopping them in the street to search them under the Misuse of Drugs act, tapping their mobiles and all the various other petty bullsh*t the cops engage in.Now we know what class of people these types of movements attract, the same type that Sinn Fein appeals to and the same type that can be found in any pub at half 10 every morning.
Bullsh*t, your blatant snobbery does you no favours at all. Typical opinion from a guard to be honest, the notion that everyone from a council estate is society's dregs.Dole taking criminals who all see themselves as republican soldiers. And I believe Eirigi was involced in the peaceful protests in Rossport.
Dole taking criminals? I spent years involved in Republican politics and never saw that sort of person at all. You'll find the vast majority of "dole-taking criminals" don't vote at all or take any interest in politics. Again your snobbery is evident.So peaceful that some of the protestors have attacked, harrassed and threatened the families of their own Irish police force down there.
More bullsh*t. The only people engaging in violence at Rossport were the cops themselves, I saw one of Ireland's finest throw a woman in her late 50s onto the ground; I ended up being knocked into a ditch by some red-faced thug. Unlike yourself I was actually at Rossport and saw numerous examples of police brutality against peaceful demonstrators.
Similarly the cops were the only crowd I know harassing people's families and spouses in the locality.0 -
The Shell to Sea campaign, serious crime??? Cmon, you can do better than that, surely.;)Dark_lord_ire wrote: »What's the issue ? So what he put in the hours and was probably detailed to serious crime.
Don't then.:rolleyes:Dark_lord_ire wrote: »I think it's just ignorant to comment on topics you know little about.0 -
What's subversive and terroristic about Éirigi? They are the only Republican party which isn't linked to an armed group. Basically you're suggesting it is fine to harass political activists engaged in peaceful political activity simply because you disagree with their broader goals. When Éirigi first set up in 2006 the Branch were approaching activists in the street asking what the craic was, fair enough in my opinion, they were simply gaining the measure of the group. However two years later they're still up to the same lark which simply demonstrates the fact that some people believe being a Republican is a crime in itself.
The Gardai monitor all groups, its in their mission statement, to provide state security.Shock horror! Send in the secret police at once! Fianna Fáil also aspire to a united Ireland, I don't see a dozen Branchmen at their commemorations, taking their car registrations, stopping them in the street to search them under the Misuse of Drugs act, tapping their mobiles and all the various other petty bullsh*t the cops engage in.
As a tax payer im glad to see the gardai actually out monitoring these groups, dont worry its not unique to your group.
They actively monitor all groups, inla, ira, cira, dole drinking scumbags, gangland crmiinals, cross border fuel smuggling freedom fighters, so called peaceful protestors etc.Bullsh*t, your blatant snobbery does you no favours at all. Typical opinion from a guard to be honest, the notion that everyone from a council estate is society's dregs.
Not all, maybe 5%. I work in these communities. When you enter flat complexes it would rise to maybe 20%.Dole taking criminals? I spent years involved in Republican politics and never saw that sort of person at all. You'll find the vast majority of "dole-taking criminals" don't vote at all or take any interest in politics. Again your snobbery is evident.
Have you ever been to an election count. Have you seen the dutch gold drinking supporters one particular party attracts. Hence the "branchmen" or (detectives as most irish people like to call them) are also present at these gatherings monitoring their movements.More bullsh*t. The only people engaging in violence at Rossport were the cops themselves, I saw one of Ireland's finest throw a woman in her late 50s onto the ground; I ended up being knocked into a ditch by some red-faced thug. Unlike yourself I was actually at Rossport and saw numerous examples of police brutality against peaceful demonstrators.
Similarly the cops were the only crowd I know harassing people's families and spouses in the locality.
The gardai were welcomed with open arms by the locals of rossport. The locals opened up their homes to allow the gardai to stay with them as lodgers. Most were totally opposed to the protestors moving to their locality and verbally attacking and threatening their irish police force hoping to get a reaction on camera. Some of the "professional protestors" even came form the Uk and Germany just to protest against the police, nothing got to do with shell to sea.0 -
The Gardai monitor all groups, its in their mission statement, to provide state security.
Now you're trying to say that tapping the phones of activists, engaging in provocative personal searches under the Misuse of Drugs Act, intimidating presence at meetings and events etc is par for the course for all. It isn't. I don't see them at Bodenstown harrassing Fianna Fáilers for calling for Irish unity, an aspiration you seem to feel it is barely legal to hold. Again, how are Éirigi, a small, political party with no connection to subversive or armed activity being singled out for this treatment? Surely you would agree that people are entitled to political expression without getting harassed by the Special Detective Unit?They actively monitor all groups, inla, ira, cira, dole drinking scumbags, gangland crmiinals, cross border fuel smuggling freedom fighters, so called peaceful protestors etc.
The difference being that the INLA and the CIRA et al are armed organisations which are proscribed, Éirigi is a legal political organisation with no connection to armed activities. None at all, it's simply a case of "harass them because of their politics."Not all, maybe 5%. I work in these communities.
Well I'm from "these communities" and I live in "these communities". I don't pop in for a few hours a day to have a walk about the place. The type of people who would have voted for Sinn Féin in these areas are ordinary working people, the young etc. They vote for the likes of Larry O'Toole in Artane or Jonathan O'Brien here in Cork because of their outstanding local work and the fact that all other parties have deserted deprived working-class people. People respected Sinn Féin because of their local presence and hard-work on the ground and because their members were of a good calibre and were people like themselves.
The fact you're parroting this notion of Republicans being feens in white tracksuits with criminal tendencies leads me to believe you just haven't a f*cking clue to be honest.Have you ever been to an election count. Have you seen the dutch gold drinking supporters one particular party attracts. Hence the "branchmen" or (detectives as most irish people like to call them) are also present at these gatherings monitoring their movements.
As I said, I was involved in Republican politics since my early teens. I always found activists to be normal, hard-working people who are generally well respected in their own areas for hard work and integrity. You're simply the type who professes to be familiar with working-class people and deprived areas but in reality would immediately write someone off because of their dress or accent.
The Branch monitor those they believe to hold opinions or beliefs they or the people who pay them don't like, that's the long and short of it. And despite codsh*t about "subversives" etc it's clear it has little to do with that because if it did they'd be leaving Éirigi alone instead of giving them sh*t for no reason.The gardai were welcomed with open arms by the locals of rossport. The locals opened up their homes to allow the gardai to stay with them as lodgers.
They also opened up their homes to protestors and kitted out the solidarity camp that was built on the proposed site. Have you ever even been to Rossport during the time in question?Most were totally opposed to the protestors moving to their locality and verbally attacking and threatening their irish police force hoping to get a reaction on camera.
They were in their arses, the community was fully behind the men known as the Rossport Five and there was as many locals getting kicked and punched by the cops as there were solidarity protestors.0 -
therecklessone wrote: »Correct.
Indeed, I misread your post, it included Sergeants and Inspectors.
Just wanted to point out overtime doesn't apply to Super up.
It does apply to the AGSI and the rank and file.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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The Branch monitor those they believe to hold opinions or beliefs they or the people who pay them don't like, that's the long and short of it.
And the people they monitor will not hold the same beliefs as the people they monitor.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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Now you're trying to say that tapping the phones of activists, engaging in provocative personal searches under the Misuse of Drugs Act, intimidating presence at meetings and events etc is par for the course for all. It isn't. I don't see them at Bodenstown harrassing Fianna Fáilers for calling for Irish unity, an aspiration you seem to feel it is barely legal to hold. Again, how are Éirigi, a small, political party with no connection to subversive or armed activity being singled out for this treatment? Surely you would agree that people are entitled to political expression without getting harassed by the Special Detective Unit?
The difference being that the INLA and the CIRA et al are armed organisations which are proscribed, Éirigi is a legal political organisation with no connection to armed activities. None at all, it's simply a case of "harass them because of their politics."
Well I'm from "these communities" and I live in "these communities". I don't pop in for a few hours a day to have a walk about the place. The type of people who would have voted for Sinn Féin in these areas are ordinary working people, the young etc. They vote for the likes of Larry O'Toole in Artane or Jonathan O'Brien here in Cork because of their outstanding local work and the fact that all other parties have deserted deprived working-class people. People respected Sinn Féin because of their local presence and hard-work on the ground and because their members were of a good calibre and were people like themselves.
The fact you're parroting this notion of Republicans being feens in white tracksuits with criminal tendencies leads me to believe you just haven't a f*cking clue to be honest.
As I said, I was involved in Republican politics since my early teens. I always found activists to be normal, hard-working people who are generally well respected in their own areas for hard work and integrity. You're simply the type who professes to be familiar with working-class people and deprived areas but in reality would immediately write someone off because of their dress or accent.
The Branch monitor those they believe to hold opinions or beliefs they or the people who pay them don't like, that's the long and short of it. And despite codsh*t about "subversives" etc it's clear it has little to do with that because if it did they'd be leaving Éirigi alone instead of giving them sh*t for no reason.
They also opened up their homes to protestors and kitted out the solidarity camp that was built on the proposed site. Have you ever even been to Rossport during the time in question?
They were in their arses, the community was fully behind the men known as the Rossport Five and there was as many locals getting kicked and punched by the cops as there were solidarity protestors.
Ok we have gone totally off topic, sorry Op
FTA69 we could argue here all day, i have experience in policing all of the above.
You as an individual only see the parts you are involved in. I see everything including all the intelligence that is gathered on all the people and what they individually have been involed with. To be honest after seeing alot of it i am shocked.
Obviously i cannot go into it here but believe me i am well informed on what goes on, more than you will ever be.
We will have to agree to disagree im afraid.
I commend you for your principles and your fight for a united Ireland.0 -
Obviously i cannot go into it here but believe me
Sure lad, and if that's the case you will be well privy to all the "shenanigans" the Branch are capable of getting up to as well, i.e the beatings, planting evidence etc.i am well informed on what goes on, more than you will ever be
:rolleyes: Sure thing lad.We will have to agree to disagree im afraid.
Righto.0 -
Sure lad, and if that's the case you will be well privy to all the "shenanigans" the Branch are capable of getting up to as well, i.e the beatings, planting evidence etc.
Righto.
Think you are getting confused with the old RUC special branch. Are you originally from Cork or are you from the 6 counties??
In Ireland the Gardai do not have a unit named the Special branch.
I believe you are thinking of the Special Detective Unit or SDU.
Their number one goal is proteciton of the President. They also provide armed response to incidents such as bank robberies, aggrevated burglaries, tiger kidnappings etc.
They are there to provide protection of the State, protection of cash shipments, monitoring the activities of subversive and extremist groups, protection of people considered "high-risk" such as TDs and operation of the witness Security Program.0 -
chief i'll come right out and say it i am a guard and have to admit i was amused to say the least reading your posts. The term rose-tinted glasses came to mind. Anyway i'm not going to argue with you as fanatics are the way they are and i'm not going to change your mind either is FTA although i do agree with him.
Anyway both parties take a dose of calm the f*** down and back to the topic at hand:)
Did not earn near what that guard earned but he must have worked every waking hour. Actually its not a good thing personal life suffers when those kind of hours are put in.0 -
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Dark_lord_ire wrote: »Anyway both parties take a dose of calm the f*** down and back to the topic at hand:)
Did not earn near what that guard earned but he must have worked every waking hour. Actually its not a good thing personal life suffers when those kind of hours are put in.
Yes back on topic
The Gard in question must have worked serious hours. Most likely involved in gangland cases with multiple murder trials incurring court overtime.
No rest days at all to be honest. whats the bets he will be looking to carry over 34 days annual leave for next year.
Hope he is promoted by now for his dedication and actually gets to enjoy 2009.0 -
Yes back on topic
The Gard in question must have worked serious hours. Most likely involved in gangland cases with multiple murder trials incurring court overtime.
No rest days at all to be honest. whats the bets he will be looking to carry over 34 days annual leave for next year.
Hope he is promoted by now for his dedication and actually gets to enjoy 2009.
Well we don't know, he could be the Judge Dredd of the 26th counties. He could also be a chancer, he could be something in between.
However fixating on one cop's overtime is absurd. Whats the average overtime for officers in the force, how much is this above the mean? What are the circumstances?
Fixating on one officers pay, without looking at the amount of overtime regular officers get is just focusing on the superficial.0 -
'Gangland' is the biggest threat to the state, well they are the biggest armed threat on home soil and thats where most of the overtime should be allocated to, not to some minor protest in Mayo.
The likes of Operation Anvil should be No. 1 priority over any other threat bar protection of polticians/judiciary if armed crime levels are to be reduced.0 -
Yes back on topic
The Gard in question must have worked serious hours. Most likely involved in gangland cases with multiple murder trials incurring court overtime.
No rest days at all to be honest. whats the bets he will be looking to carry over 34 days annual leave for next year.
Hope he is promoted by now for his dedication and actually gets to enjoy 2009.
Can't carry over that much actually lucky to carry any at all even a few days you have to give good reasons why they were not used and even then the powers that be can say no. Promotion hmmm i dont think so the promotion system is based on many things.
Anyway i would not work those hours i'd have better things to be doing with my time. Should be noted that guards dont get much overtime these days0 -
Dark_lord_ire wrote: »
Anyway i would not work those hours i'd have better things to be doing with my time. Should be noted that guards dont get much overtime these days
€113m paid out last year, that's a fair chunk of change. I know budgets have been slashed this year, but that might have something to do with some sections not having used up their OT budget from last year?0 -
I'm not sure where the problem is here? He worked the hours, and was paid for it. Are you suggesting he not be paid for overtime, or that no overtime be worked?
Does this shallow, unquestioning logic apply to any absurdly inflated overtime payment? Would you just shrug and say the same if he was raking in €160,000 a year in overtime? When would you get a little bit uneasy - or would you ever???
€80,990 is more than two and a half times the average wage of €32,000 in this Country - It represents some 125 weeks hard won cash to the average worker. Do you not get it?
The fact is that in 52 weeks - after days off, holidays etc. this man earned €80,990 on top of his annual wage as a human tripod for a speed camera - or some such inane fool-fest.
- Was he working 365 days a year, putting down the week days, slogging through the weekends, sleeping in the patrol car for 20 minutes at a go before starting his 9th shift that day ????
Personally I think its an utter disgrace and given the Garda track record on crime detection, prevention and overall abysmal performance statistics etc. I resent this money being taken from my payslip.
- Lets be brutally honest here; our Gardaí are obviously too heroically busy harassing motorists over road traffic offences to stop a minute and realise that these are actually the taxpayers who pay their [Rock Star] wages. The average Irish Garda never comes within 10Km of an actual Criminal.
Have a small bit of sense - when you read these stories in the newspaper just check your passport, if you see a little Harp emblem there then there's a good chance that there's more to this than meets the eye.0 -
From the Garda Ombudsman Code -of-Ethics....Dark_lord_ire wrote: »May I hit on another topic your average criminal traveller would cost over 95k a year just to lock up also welfare payments and cost from crime why don't people look at that side. Feed them slop make the jails factories and make them pay for crimes rather than a holiday home at our expence
No person with whom the Garda Ombudsman has contact will be discriminated against on grounds of gender, marital status, family status, age, disability, sexual orientation, religious belief, race, membership of the Travelling Community, political convictions, place of birth or residence, occupational status or any other status.0 -
Does this shallow, unquestioning logic apply to any absurdly inflated overtime payment? Would you just shrug and say the same if he was raking in €160,000 a year in overtime? When would you get a little bit uneasy - or would you ever???
€80,990 is more than two and a half times the average wage of €32,000 in this Country - It represents some 125 weeks hard won cash to the average worker. Do you not get it?
The fact is that in 52 weeks - after days off, holidays etc. this man earned €80,990 on top of his annual wage as a human tripod for a speed camera - or some such inane fool-fest.
- Was he working 365 days a year, putting down the week days, slogging through the weekends, sleeping in the patrol car for 20 minutes at a go before starting his 9th shift that day ????
Personally I think its an utter disgrace and given the Garda track record on crime detection, prevention and overall abysmal performance statistics etc. I resent this money being taken from my payslip.
- Lets be brutally honest here; our Gardaí are obviously too heroically busy harassing motorists over road traffic offences to stop a minute and realise that these are actually the taxpayers who pay their [Rock Star] wages. The average Irish Garda never comes within 10Km of an actual Criminal.
Have a small bit of sense - when you read these stories in the newspaper just check your passport, if you see a little Harp emblem there then there's a good chance that there's more to this than meets the eye.
+1
about time someone told it like it is about guards
unless your based in a rough area and most parts of ireland are still relativley crime free , a guard is a bit of a doss , stamping passport applications ( surely non garda could carry out this function ) , signaling traffic , maning tax check points , overseeing dole registrations , renweing gun licences etc
also , visit your local district court down the country each week , there you will see about a dozen rank and file gardai sitting on a bench like substitues on a local gaa team , waiting for thier summones ( which usually consist of some young pup who pissed in a hotel door six months earlier and which involve the local squaddie having to take to his feet for 30 seconds to speak to the judge ) to be heard0 -
unless your based in a rough area and most parts of ireland are still relativley crime free , a guard is a bit of a doss , stamping passport applications ( surely non garda could carry out this function ) , signaling traffic , maning tax check points , overseeing dole registrations , renweing gun licences etc
I agree that many perfunctory garda duties could be done by other civil servants, but many of the above duties require a modicum of specialised training. Or could you imagine the uproar if some volunteer garda signed the licence of someone mentally unfit to carry a firearm, or whom do you propose man's traffic signals or tax check points.+1
also , visit your local district court down the country each week , there you will see about a dozen rank and file gardai sitting on a bench like substitues on a local gaa team , waiting for thier summones ( which usually consist of some young pup who pissed in a hotel door six months earlier and which involve the local squaddie having to take to his feet for 30 seconds to speak to the judge ) to be heard
And your proposed alternative is?0 -
I know many Guards, many are hard-working, some aren't - just like the rest of society. Most of the younger guards are passionate about making a difference and deserve our support. A very small minority, like a poster on this thread, would cause me grave conern. I can only hope that it is bravado when posting anonymously. (Alternativly, that the checks and balances now in place are sufficiently strong to keep unnacceptable behaviour curtailed.)
Anyway, back to the original topic....
The inefficiencies you highlight represent a huge waste of resources and are well out of place in a modern police force. However, they represent failure at top-level Garda management and at political level. Local management, even at Senior Level, do not have the means of changing this. That was the premise of my very first post on this thread - i.e. a failure of governance and cost control at the very top.0 -
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+1
about time someone told it like it is about guards
unless your based in a rough area and most parts of ireland are still relativley crime free , a guard is a bit of a doss , stamping passport applications ( surely non garda could carry out this function ) ,
Unless you have being walking around with your eyes closed, most of the country has not being crime free
- Lets be brutally honest here; our Gardaí are obviously too heroically busy harassing motorists over road traffic offences to stop a minute and realise that these are actually the taxpayers who pay their [Rock Star] wages. The average Irish Garda never comes within 10Km of an actual
Criminal.
I would advise you to pick up a news paper0 -
I'm not sure where the problem is here? He worked the hours, and was paid for it. Are you suggesting he not be paid for overtime, or that no overtime be worked?
If you are not sure of the problem in that, I would genuinely fear for you my friend.
The poster is not attacking the garda, but the stupid system which allows this to continue.
Probably has to do with the Shell to sea stuff, so maybe a close scrutiny of the punters who are stirring up the shíte around there might be appropriate.
I am well aware that people are entitled to protest, but sometimes , maybe a more forensic approach to who is doing what might be a tad more appropriate.0 -
nipplenuts wrote: »Why must he? He might, but if he was at the top of the scale, c€45,000.00 he'd only have to do an additional 20-ish hours at double time.
Mighn't even have to do that.
I'm sure there are agreements for time between shifts so the lad could be sleeping while earning double time.0 -
That's not fair comment, lets not make this a Garda-bashing thread.+1
about time someone told it like it is about guards
................. a guard is a bit of a doss ....
Much of the above work could be done by trained civilians, freeing up Garda for crime fighting and other work proper to their function. However, it does take political will.....+1
about time someone told it like it is about guards
...., stamping passport applications ( surely non garda could carry out this function ) , signaling traffic , maning tax check points , overseeing dole registrations , renweing gun licences etc (my strikeout - surely this work is proper to the Gardai, Hillel)
....also , visit your local district court down the country each week , there you will see about a dozen rank and file gardai sitting on a bench like substitues on a local gaa team , waiting for thier summones0 -
renweing gun licences etc
The renewal of firearms certificates is handled in bulk by a unit in the Phoenix Park. I believe it's at least partially staffed by non-Gardai. The only work done by the Gardai in the local station is the taking of the fee and handing over the cert. Firearms certificates are moving to a 3 year cycle, so there should be a consequential reduction in the paperwork needed. Hopefully we'll move to multiple firearms per certificate too, which should further reduce the paperwork involved.
As for the topic at hand, well that amount of overtime is indicative of poor staffing levels in the force. That €113 million would certainly pay for more Gardai on the street. While overtime is a useful way of filling temporary gaps in staffing, surely a bill that big is indicative of a persistent lack of staff in some areas?0 -
That's not fair comment, lets not make this a Garda-bashing thread.
Much of the above work could be done by trained civilians, freeing up Garda for crime fighting and other work proper to their function. However, it does take political will.....
Crime fighting? I am envisioning Bat garda and robin the boy wonder.
Controlling traffic? A Job the garda, unless the civilian is empowered to issue penalties and fines for those who disobey, which makes them a Garda. Ditto Tax.
Look I'm not saying 118m in overtime is excessive. And I've been involved in court cases were Garda were prosecuted and frankly the number of empty blue suits there just to show support beggared believe. But more stringent time management is the answer not handing over their job to others.0 -
I agree that many perfunctory garda duties could be done by other civil servants, but many of the above duties require a modicum of specialised training. Or could you imagine the uproar if some volunteer garda signed the licence of someone mentally unfit to carry a firearm, or whom do you propose man's traffic signals or tax check points.
And your proposed alternative is?
surely one garda ( spokesperson if you will ) could read out summonses for all the guards in the surrounding area
were talking no tax displayed on a tractor , disturbing the piece , not murder crimes where the arresting garda would have to be the one reading out the charge0 -
surely one garda ( spokesperson if you will ) could read out summonses for all the guards in the surrounding area
were talking no tax displayed on a tractor , disturbing the piece , not murder crimes where the arresting garda would have to be the one reading out the charge
and what happens when this "one Garda Spokesperson" says johnny had no tax, no insurance and was drunk? Johnny says eh no i wasnt. This "garda spokesperson" then says eh yes you were and johnny says no i wasnt etc etc.
The actual garda involved in the case aint there so he cant give evidence to the contrary so Johnny walks away happy out!! Striiikee out!!
Next suggestion pls!0 -
Much of the above work could be done by trained civilians, freeing up Garda for crime fighting and other work proper to their function. However, it does take political will.....
YEP and it would help if the Garda Unions accepted them. Why don't they?Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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I would advise you to pick up a news paper
I live in Limerick and I read through all of the news media daily and in great detail.
Try these two on for size:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0226/collinse.html
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/courts/garda-on-charge-of-making-up-taxi-assault-claim-complaint-officer-said-dress-was-torn-off-her-1480672.html
Almost on a daily basis we have people desperately calling for a Garda presence patrolling our streets; what do we get in 2009? - Gardaí roaming the streets like thugs....... Was that what you meant?
Going by what I've observed in a lifetime to date, my conclusion remains that are Gardaí are either stupidly inept, criminally lazy or worst of all - cynically avoiding actual criminals on a daily basis by patrolling the leafy suburbs and harassing Mammies over tax discs while peeping down their tops......0
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