Increasing socialist/left wing ideology

Permabear

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Diogenes

donegalfella wrote: »

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I've noticed you've fixated on that this one minor point, instead of explaining which Irish Right Wing Intellectuals are being censored on our airwaves.

And if you'll search the historical record, you'll find no group of people more critical of Greenspan's expansionary monetary policy and statist interventionism than right-wing libertarians.

Is this a stand up routine? I don't recall seeing many Right Wing Libertarians marching on anti IMF or WTO meetings.

No wait there was a group of young republicans building barricades in Genoa. no wait that was Ya Basta.

Leftwing opposition to the "free market" ideals of Greenspan has been the most vocal detailed and passionate political movement of the 90s/ early 2000s.

Consider this article, "The Mess Greenspan Leaves," published by the right-wing Ludwig von Mises Institute. It was written in December 2005 by right-wing economist Stefan Karlsson. I'll quote you this representative paragraph:



Does this not sound like a fairly accurate warning of what was to come?

Wow! You got an unpublished blogger. I'll see you that and raise you Joesph Stiglitz or Naomi Klein. Or I could go on.

Greenspan was chair of the federal reserve under the last three republican Presidents, to suggest that the right were the ones warning about this is laughable. They caused this.

Permabear

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nesf

Diogenes wrote: »

But to suggest right wing opinions aren't expressed on Irish air waves, did you not hear Ulick Mc Evaddy on with Joe Higgins last week.

Bluntly neither would be considered to be an intellectual by any stretch of the imagination.

Diogenes wrote: »

You really think someone from Magill, or someone from IBEC, or the CIF is lifting their heads above the trenches right now?

The editor of Magill Magazine was on Q&A last week ffs. Hardly something someone cowering in the trenches does. If you're going to make broad sweeping statements about things like the above at least have some idea of who has or has not be been active in public forums over the past few weeks/months.

Diogenes

donegalfella wrote: »

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No I made an off hand comment to that effect, I then asked you name some of these irish right wing intellectuals, that RTE are (to borrow a phrase) denying the oxygen of publicity. I've done this four times time. You've failed to do so, and in your consistent inability or unwillingness to name these censored towering intellectuals, is, rather funnily, effectively proving my glib aside.

So for the fifth time I ask, who are the "right wing intellectuals' denied a voice by RTE?

You'll find that most right-wing libertarians do not support the existence of the IMF or the WTO. Maybe you want to read up a bit about what libertarians actually believe before you make any more self-discrediting claims?

Firstly to be clear the post of yours I originally responded to referred to "right wing intellectuals" You clearly did not clarify it as "right wing libertarian intellectuals." Merely right wing. Secondly could you classify what your definition of Right Wing Libertarian is? Ron Paul? Ayn Rand?

You're you've started by saying "Why aren't we seeing right wing intellectuals on RTE?" and now you are saying "Why aren't we seeing a fringe movement of right wing political philosophy on RTE". You may as well say 'Why aren't the Workers Solidarity Movement getting airtime".

Let's see: Greenspan served 1 year under Reagan, 4 years under Bush Sr., 5 years under Bush Jr., and 8 years under Clinton. That changes your math somewhat, doesn't it? Yes, that's right—almost half of Greenspan's tenure as Federal Reserve chairman happened while a Democrat was in the White House. I love how you've tried to erase that fact.

I didn't, I say quite clearly that he's served under three different republican presidents. But hang on, you're the one saying you disagree with the politics and policies of the mainstream right, but now, seem to be defending them.

This is your cake donegal, do you want your cake, or eat your cake?

bigeasyeah

During times of duress many often resort to extreme ideologies.

Pride Fighter

I am glad the Irish are seeing more sense. Putting democracy in the hands of the people, not big business should be natural IMO. After all a multi-national will not be your friend and neighbour in your community. Putting people before bankers and big business seems to be the most humane political ideology IMO. I do not understand how people can cheerlead for big business when there are communities ravaged by crime and people losing their homes. Neo-Cons, Neo-Liberals got us into this mess with their waste and corruption. Social Democracy with the values of putting the common good ahead of the needs of the profiteers is the future of global politics.

Permabear

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Diogenes

bigeasyeah wrote: »

During times of duress many often resort to extreme ideologies.

Ah here hold on, they're Sinn Fein not the Taliban. Are they talking about raising corporate tax? Yes. Banning kites, music and laughter? No.

Talk like this dilutes the meaning of the word extremism.

nesf wrote:

The editor of Magill Magazine was on Q&A last week ffs. Hardly something someone cowering in the trenches does. If you're going to make broad sweeping statements about things like the above at least have some idea of who has or has not be been active in public forums over the past few weeks/months.

My apologises, I do live in the UK, I do try and keep abreast of current affairs back home, as I (was) planning on moving back there recently. I subscribe to a number of forums, and mailing lists, and regularly watch rte streaming (PS rte would it kill you not to have a loud stupid ad for the RTE guide in front of every news piece?) The Magill editor passed me by.

Would you know what day it was on, I'd actually quite like to see it.

Nodin

mumhaabu wrote: »

We need to lock down our borders and stop the migrant workers from the 12 new EU states from working here and reintroduce work permits. We need to look at the effects of immigration into Ireland at a time when our own kith and kin are leaving. All I see in various towns is loads of immigrants walking around hands in pockets all not working being supported by the Irish government at a time when our employees are beign taxed to extreme. Social Welfare needs to dismantled and slowly removed for all people but cut it for foreigners first. .

"kith and kin" eh? Well, Its always good to hear the thoughts of the Astaru movement. WWOD indeed.

mumhaabu wrote: »

We need to move to the right not the left and we will see our Celtic Tiger roar again,.

There was no such beast, really. Thats what they mean by "bubble".

mumhaabu wrote: »

. To those liberal lefties who argue for Socialism take one look at the United States a country which has seen an unprecedented economic boom from late 2002 up to 2008 and the economy of the US grew and grew every single year that President Bush was in power. His conservative policies led America on its greatest boom since WWII and weathered a war and domestic terrorism. The Democrats took the house with Nanci Pelosi (possibly america's most corrupt person) and then began this crisis.,.

Alternative history buff too?

The Americans had an even more ginormous "bubble". Nothing to do with Bush specifically, certainly nothing to do with Pelosi.

CiaranC

donegalfella, you tell us. Who ARE these right wing intellectuals?

Diogenes

donegalfella wrote: »

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Wow deflect the question much?

Let me remind you what you said

donegalfella wrote:

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You are the one claiming that right wing intellectuals are denied a voice by the state broadcaster. I'm merely asking who these repressed souls are?

Are you really trying to argue that a country that has elected a conservative right of center government consistently for over a decade, is being corrupted by left wing teachers and media? Do you have any idea how Joe Mc Carthy esque absurd that sounds?

So Joe, got the names of these 205 card carrying right wing intellectuals we are repressing?

BTW, in your ever so endearing manner you ignore a major point of my rebuttal again.

me wrote:

Firstly to be clear the post of yours I originally responded to referred to "right wing intellectuals" You clearly did not clarify it as "right wing libertarian intellectuals." Merely right wing. Secondly could you classify what your definition of Right Wing Libertarian is? Ron Paul? Ayn Rand?

You're you've started by saying "Why aren't we seeing right wing intellectuals on RTE?" and now you are saying "Why aren't we seeing a fringe movement of right wing political philosophy on RTE". You may as well say 'Why aren't the Workers Solidarity Movement getting airtime".

Are you referring to "right wing intellectuals" or "right wing libertarian intellectuals"?

Permabear

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CiaranC

donegalfella wrote: »

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Who are these right wing intellectuals being censored by the media?

Permabear

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asdasd

Probably we dont know who these right wing intellectuals are because they are censored from the media.

Of course right wing intellectuals get on the media - just not spittle flecked libertarians. Most economists are right wing, for instance. Business leaders - public intellectuals of a sort - are right wing. IBEC leaders. Right wing.

Also Tom Conney is a neo-con, an unusual philosophy for Ireland.

In any case the term right wing can mean any of these things

1) Nationalists, or anyone who opposes the libertarian argument on migration is "rightwing" even though the capitalist class is very pro-migration.
2) Conservatives - for example: Catholics even though they may oppose the nationalists on immigration ( or not), and free marketers on most everything ( porn, secularization, contraception, divorce etc.)
3) Libertarians - market driven fundies. Opposed to conservatives and nationalists ,as well as the left.
4) Neo-Cons - Israeli firsters. Generally in favour of a libertarian agenda unless we are talking about torture, statist invasions of Iraq, and pro-immigration unless immigrants are seeking the right of return to Israel. Not so popular in Ireland.

All these differences mean "right wing" is a useless term.

All of these groups get some time on RTE. Some get too much time.

Permabear

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O'Morris

donegalfella wrote:

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What about Moore McDowell? I saw him on Questions and Answers a few weeks ago and he wasn't too keen on the idea of a bailout. Isn't he a pro-market, anti-statist economist?

donegallfella wrote:

They have hosted a great deal of debate about how and where the government should intervene—and a great deal of sanctimonious warbling about the need to protect the most vulnerable in society—but the perfectly respectable position that the government should not intervene gets no airing. Why?

Probably because there aren't any. Can you name two high-profile economists or politicians in this country opposed to government intervention in the economy?

Permabear

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Diogenes

donegalfella wrote: »

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No wait sorry you said

you wrote:

I can't recall the last time I heard a right-wing intellectual interviewed on RTÉ.

I've merely asked you to name some of these silenced souls, You're the one being incredibly obtuse at this point. The closest thing you've come to a name is an obscure Swedish blogger.

So I ask again, simply, who are these right wing intellectuals who RTE are ignoring, or overlooking?

It's a really simple question.

OhNoYouDidn't

How much of a hiding is DonegallFella taking on this thread? :eek:

Painful.

Permabear

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Diogenes

donegalfella wrote: »

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This would be the 9th time you've failed to mention a right wing intellectual who isn't appearing on rte, the 6th time you've failed to clarify what you feel the difference is between a right wing intellectual, and a right wing libertarian, so no please continue you, just seize that "moral high ground" once again and focus on a pithy one liner I made, and ignore the substance of everything else everyone has said.

The longer you continue posting on this thread, fixating on the "oxymoron" comment, without mentioning who these towering intellectual giants censured by RTE, the funnier you make a throw away one liner become.

OhNoYouDidn't

donegalfella wrote: »

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The irony.....

You claimed a conspiracy. You should either back it up or retract it.

In the week when Ulick McEvaddy lifted the lid on the attitudes of Irish crony capitalism on the national airwaves, your approach is even more bizarre.

Put up or shut up please. And that does not mean denying that the Irish right are on the right.

thebigcheese22

donegalfella wrote: »

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In fairness, he asked you a question and you completely refused to answer! :rolleyes:

Also you say that since October theres been no right-wing/libertarian/whatever you wanna call them (i prefer the term fat-cats ) on RTE.
Even if that is the case, how can you blame them?! The whole capitalist system of no government 'interference' with the economy and particularly the banking system, has been completely discredited since the goings-ons in September.

How can a policy of no government intervention fix what occurred directly because of no government interference??

nesf

Diogenes wrote: »

Would you know what day it was on, I'd actually quite like to see it.

Here's a link to the show: http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0216/qanda.html

Permabear

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OhNoYouDidn't

donegalfella wrote: »

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So answer Ciaran C then.

thebigcheese22

donegalfella wrote: »

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What would you call the complete inaction of the Financial Regulator so?!

CiaranC

donegalfella wrote: »

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Seems to me that the countries with lots of "government interference", e.g. strong regulation, have been the least affected by this banking crisis and those with less have been more heavily affected.

The idea of even less regulation in the financial sector as a solution to rampant cronyism and corruption is laughable to be honest.