To Force an Immediate Removal from Power

Time Magazine

Communism only killed 100 million people.

Let's give it another shot.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Soldie

Pride Fighter wrote: »

We need a centre-left government to fix the problems of this nation, similar to Roosevelt's government of the 30's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession_of_1937

I can't wait! :eek:

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Sand

The Marxism we've seen through history was bastardized, not reflective true leftist beliefs. True Socialism would allow for evolution of practices depending on current circumstances, especially with more regular elections and referendums.

Yeah, yeah.

Sorry, when has an ideal or textbook system actually survived contact with reality? Do you really think that the current economic system is textbook anything? Socialism/marxism/communism were tried and failed. Hard.

The worst people can say about liberal capitalism is that growth has slowed/stopped for a few years. Theres no secret police, gulags or loss of liberty.

cj001

People WE desperately need reform on many levels.
The way i see it is the government along with all local governments/councils seriously need to start thinking way outside the box. there are so many ways they could improve the lives of ordanary people who are the backbone of this country, instead of decisively sicking way they choose to cut back. we need changes that will get people working again in one form or another, changes that focus on creating neighbourhoods which really meet the needs of the people on many levels. And really changing what schools are teaching our children, and the way in which its taught. we have to build from the bottom up. we want to shape young minds so that they're not only intelligent but emotionally mature, socially responsible and hard working individuals. thats what schools should be aiming for.

I think some form of national service should be brought in for young men & women who have just finished secondary school. they could work in jobs were help is badly needed, hospitals/hospices', nursing-homes, schools, voluntary/ charites, civil/government jobs & etc. the aim for them would be to help provide a service that is badly needed and to aquire skills for a career.

Or maybe a stint in the Defence Forces wouldnt be a bad idea for those just left school. i think it creates real character and a good sense of perception, especially when they're in the likes of Chad. (much respect to our men & women doing a job second to none out there.)

OK I'll wrap this up...The way the government spends our money and runs the country is a absolute disgrace. They are corrupt in one way or another. it is like we are just about surviving, scraping out a living. we should be thriving.

THEY NEED TO GO. But is there anybody to replace them?
We desperately need a new breed of politicians.


Peace.

--amadeus--

Sand wrote: »

The worst people can say about liberal capitalism is that growth has slowed/stopped for a few years. Theres no secret police, gulags or loss of liberty.

The NSA, CIA, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay, Extraordinary Renditions, Water Boarding, Warentless Wiretapping, routine fingerprinting of air travellers, "No Fly" lists.

You can say a lot about the last decade but liberal it was not.

There is a huge amount of anger now. Lots of people see thier jobs under threat and livelihoods challenged. And it's not just the usual rent-a-mob, here are plenty of self employed, white collar, middle class (even FF voting) people who see years of hard work building a business going down the toilet. Will they get a bailout from teh Govt? Of course not! The Banks - whose borderline criminal negligence and outright fraud helped create this disaster - do get great gobs of bailout money and rescued.

So all the people proclaiming that capitalism works could you explain why we privatised profits but nationalised loss? Why is the market only allowed to work when it works in favour of the banking elite?

There is a lot of anger out there, not just in this country but worldwide and I would expect dramatic changes.

mountainyman

The Economist wrote: »

Communism only killed 100 million people.

Let's give it another shot.

How many people does capitalism kill every year? Communism is the most successful economic system in history. Communism in China is pulling 40 million people a year out of absolute poverty. No capitalist society can make that boat.

SkepticOne

The thing people tend to forget about Marxism and its variants is that it is much the same sorts of people running things as we have now. These 'golden shower' cronies will also be at or near the top of a Marxist socialist system and will enjoy the perks and privileges that that brings. When the Soviet Union broke up a lot of the people who became oligarchs were well connected to the former Soviet government. Certain types of people know how to use whatever system is in place to their advantage.

For me the thing to change is the culture of cronyism rather than any political ideology. It is cronyism - the fact, for example, that if you are well connected you can profit from land rezonings etc. - that has ultimately brought the system down. Ultimately, every country relies on exports of goods or services to survive. Everything else is unsustainable.

SkepticOne

mountainyman wrote: »

How many people does capitalism kill every year? Communism is the most successful economic system in history. Communism in China is pulling 40 million people a year out of absolute poverty. No capitalist society can make that boat.

I would argue that China today is less socialist than Ireland. Certainly less socialist than France or Sweden. Politically it is still authoritarian though.

Iwasfrozen

True, China has strayed far from the Political Ideal of Socialism.
But the "Great leap forward" crippled their country and the Chinese sought a quick way out and so turned to Capitalism.
Nevertheless that doesn’t mean Socialism will fail in Ireland, and honestly do you really think Ireland will turn into an authoritarian oppressive regime just because of Socialism ?
The Irish simply wouldn't have the back bone for that.

BroomBurner

Communism, Marxism and Capitalism didn't kill people. People killed people. Use whatever excuse you want to, but that's the truth of it. I can't speak for any capitalist doctrine, but there is no line in Plato's Communism that states "you must kill people to make this happen".

Also, todays communism isn't actually communism, it's a bastardisation of it. If it was true to form, there would be no dictators in charge.

I'm not a commie though! Lol

I'd ideally like to see our government replaced with a social democracy based on that of the Scandinavian countries. I know they pay higher tax, but they do receive more benfits and things are a little tighter. You can complain that it's bad everywhere but I haven't heard of any bank and/or economic collapses in Norway, etc.

SkepticOne

BroomBurner wrote: »

I haven't heard of any bank and/or economic collapses in Norway, etc.

There was large banking crisis is the early 90's.

The Norwegian Banking Crisis affected almost 2/3 of the banking system and led to the nationalization of our three largest banks. At the time, it was the first systemic crisis in an industrialized country since the 1930s. This also explains why the crisis caught most policymakers off-guard.

They would have been quite a left leaning country then. Sweden also had a crisis.

http://www.norges-bank.no/templates/article____13822.aspx

Finland also had a property bubble collapse. These things are all possible in high tax social democratic systems.

BroomBurner

SkepticOne wrote: »

There was large banking crisis is the early 90's.They would have been quite a left leaning country then. Sweden also had a crisis.

http://www.norges-bank.no/templates/article____13822.aspx

Finland also had a property bubble collapse. These things are all possible in high tax social democratic systems.

What did they use to get out of these situations?

A lot of their financial models though are worthwhile checking out. For example the insurance sector in Finland is highly controlled so as to stop any "compensation culture" from developing. This leads to the overall costs of insurance to be kept low.

We should really use this opportunity to cherry-pick what works in other countries.

SkepticOne

Plenty on the internet about the Scandinavian banking crises and how they got out of it. Some of the lessons are being applied today but the advantage they had was that the rest of the world was reasonably healthy and they still had home grown industry.

The point, though, is that these countries do get these crises.