Would you support it?

drunkmonkey

did anyone else read it or hear Gerry Adams speech, I think he had some clear agendas and good ideas....

extract.."I want to invite all potential allies to come together to forge a stronger, more united progressive and democratic movement for our country - one that aims to meet the needs of all citizens.
And I include parties like Labour, the Greens - if they can survive the fall-out from their participation in this"


What would you think of the coalition of the willing?,

I'd be prepared to give it a go as apposed to the alternative....


full text here...
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0221/breaking32.htm

Dob74

Count me in. FF & FG stand for the same thing. We need a change, this country is rotten to the core. If there was a lab/sf/green coalition, FG & FF would probably merge. Something that should of happened after the civil war

BroomBurner

I would be up for a coalition so long as Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Sinn Fein and any independents that were once members of those three parties were not involved.

Zynks

I would support this coalition provided it is not headed by SF. Anyone else than SF.

Iwasfrozen

I would never for any reason support SF in goverment.

turgon

BroomBurner wrote: »

I would be up for a coalition so long as Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Sinn Fein and any independents that were once members of those three parties were not involved.

Thats like saying you want a maxed out salad sandwich without lettuce cucumber, tomato or onion. It just cant be done, the numbers dont add up.

yoshytoshy

thought gerry adams gave it his all and was in his element.
BUT ,he could keep his mouth shut just as good about things and thats why I wouldn't vote for them.

BroomBurner

turgon wrote: »

Thats like saying you want a maxed out salad sandwich without lettuce cucumber, tomato or onion. It just cant be done, the numbers dont add up.

Yeah, I know, sad but I don't trust any of them.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

is_that_so

Seeing as SF want to be a part of it it would nice if they could come, up with bit more than "join us" and come up with their own viable proposals. As I've posted elsewhere I don't think SF have any genuine policies that make them electable. They can certainly be a protest party but they're up against the SWP on that side of the spectrum.

Labour are hoping to get back to the Spring tide days of 30 seats and may do so. Labour are also determined to stay out of any alliances. So it is hard to see where the benefit to Labour is. A party with 4 seats inviting them to join an alliance? Much as people might hate FF or FG they would be needed to get the votes needed to elect a government. On the basis that FF will lose seats badly and FG will not countenance SF in government the whole idea is doomed from the start.

stakey

Realistically the 'alternative' coalition ideas aren't really a runner, on the outside chance I could see Labour squeezing Fine Gael into second place and as such being the bigger party in such a coalition. To make up the numbers I could see them bringing in the Greens and independants. I don't see any political party in Ireland being associated with Sinn Fein for a long time, the peace process is too fresh and anything that Sinn Fein may be associated with in Northern Ireland would only be dragged into the Dail too. No Irish political party wants to be associated with that.

Duiske

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

He had the law applied to himself, and served his time.

yomchi

stakey wrote: »

Realistically the 'alternative' coalition ideas aren't really a runner, on the outside chance I could see Labour squeezing Fine Gael into second place and as such being the bigger party in such a coalition. To make up the numbers I could see them bringing in the Greens and independants. I don't see any political party in Ireland being associated with Sinn Fein for a long time, the peace process is too fresh and anything that Sinn Fein may be associated with in Northern Ireland would only be dragged into the Dail too. No Irish political party wants to be associated with that.

Is this going to be another 'I'd never vote for Sinn Féin but I don't really know why thread'? - 'and when I don't know why, I'll bring up the big bad IRA who have been on cessation nearly 12 years now' -

The highlighted sentence above clearly outlines that you have it wrong. For many years now 'Irish' political parties have been working hand in hand with Sinn Féin, not only at council level but Oireachtas level also. In the Oireachtas at the moment SF have agreements and working relationships with certain oppostion parties and independants in order to increase opposition speaking time and motions etc. Sinn Féin have also worked with Labour and Fianna Fáil at local govt level since 1985, at a Dublin level anyway. Seeing as though we are talking about 'Ireland' - Sinn Féin initiated the peace process with the SDLP and have worked with the UUP and are now working with the DUP, they have also worked closely on community relations with the PUP - So what party exactly will not work with Sinn Féin or be associated with them?

Seeing as SF want to be a part of it it would nice if they could come, up with bit more than "join us" and come up with their own viable proposals. As I've posted elsewhere I don't think SF have any genuine policies that make them electable. They can certainly be a protest party but they're up against the SWP on that side of the spectrum.

The SWP????
Are you sure you have that correct~? The SWP are MINISCULE! or are you mixed up?
As for viable proposals, they have viable proposals. Adams speech touched on them without having to get into the minutia of it. Policies are there for all to see via their website.

yomchi

Duiske wrote: »

He had the law applied to himself, and served his time.

Incorrect.
Gerry Adams was interned WITHOUT trial. He was locked up with hundreds of Irish men for simply being Irish or having nationalist views. Gerry Adams was never convicted of anything in a court of law.

Duiske

Jon wrote: »

Incorrect.
Gerry Adams was interned WITHOUT trial. He was locked up with hundreds of Irish men for simply being Irish or having nationalist views. Gerry Adams was never convicted of anything in a court of law.

I stand corrected. I recall hearing though that during the 70's Adams was sentenced for an offence committed while he was interned. Protest or attempted escape I think. Anyway, it just legitimized his internment, or attempted to. I'll try to find a link.

Liam Byrne

To answer the thread title in a word, no.

And for the same reason as I wouldn't support FF......because (a) I don't trust them and (b) their double-standards and (c) they don't represent my ethical views.

Koloman

Jon wrote: »

Is this going to be another 'I'd never vote for Sinn Féin but I don't really know why thread'? - 'and when I don't know why, I'll bring up the big bad IRA who have been on cessation nearly 12 years now' -

The highlighted sentence above clearly outlines that you have it wrong. For many years now 'Irish' political parties have been working hand in hand with Sinn Féin, not only at council level but Oireachtas level also. In the Oireachtas at the moment SF have agreements and working relationships with certain oppostion parties and independants in order to increase opposition speaking time and motions etc. Sinn Féin have also worked with Labour and Fianna Fáil at local govt level since 1985, at a Dublin level anyway. Seeing as though we are talking about 'Ireland' - Sinn Féin initiated the peace process with the SDLP and have worked with the UUP and are now working with the DUP, they have also worked closely on community relations with the PUP - So what party exactly will not work with Sinn Féin or be associated with them?



The SWP????
Are you sure you have that correct~? The SWP are MINISCULE! or are you mixed up?
As for viable proposals, they have viable proposals. Adams speech touched on them without having to get into the minutia of it. Policies are there for all to see via their website.

Local government is one thing, but to have Sinn Fein in the National goverment would be the equivalent of a slow suicide. How can a party with a leader in another jurisdiction be taken seriously?

yomchi

Duiske wrote: »

I stand corrected. I recall hearing though that during the 70's Adams was sentenced for an offence committed while he was interned. Protest or attempted escape I think. Anyway, it just legitimized his internment, or attempted to. I'll try to find a link.

You'll probably find it was the burning of the cages.

yomchi

Koloman wrote: »

Local government is one thing, but to have Sinn Fein in the National goverment would be the equivalent of a slow suicide. How can a party with a leader in another jurisdiction be taken seriously?

Good point chara re the northern leadership, SF are working towards building a serious southern leadership based around Mary Lou McDonald. However lets not be partitionist about it, but it has been noted that Gerry Adams isn't the most briefed on southern economic issues, you'll find Mary Lou will be streets ahead.
As for it being a slow suicide in a national government, well time will tell when the country is unified and a national governement is elected by all the people of the island.
But to answer your point, why would you think it would be a slow suicide? I think the mainstream right wing parties who have brought this state to it's knees economically are more to blame for any slow suicide, i'd be interested to hear your views.

Nodin

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Would you support it?

I would indeed, though I'm not keen on the Greens.

Dob74

Koloman wrote: »

Local government is one thing, but to have Sinn Fein in the National goverment would be the equivalent of a slow suicide. How can a party with a leader in another jurisdiction be taken seriously?

I dont understand why people have a problem with SF. FF & FG where bombing killing people in the early 20's and they went to government almost right away. Gerry Adams has meet the last two Presidents something Dev was denied in 1919.




Well, I understand if you are a drug dealer and dont want to be knee-capped.

LordSutch

Oh yes, Adams is very articulate, enchanting, charming, dangerously clever, and even presedential 'to his Republican flock', with his well trimmed beard and his newly coiffed hairdo > but in reality he is full of vacuous soundbites (just like Mary Lou), He also states the bleedin obvious, he makes vague & sweeping statements, but he is still unable to grasp southern economic matters, and he still leaves 90% + of the southern electorate cold.

What would you think of the coalition of the willing?

Yes, provided it didnt include SF.

jmayo

Jon wrote: »

Good point chara re the northern leadership, SF are working towards building a serious southern leadership based around Mary Lou McDonald. However lets not be partitionist about it, but it has been noted that Gerry Adams isn't the most briefed on southern economic issues, you'll find Mary Lou will be streets ahead.
As for it being a slow suicide in a national government, well time will tell when the country is unified and a national governement is elected by all the people of the island.
But to answer your point, why would you think it would be a slow suicide? I think the mainstream right wing parties who have brought this state to it's knees economically are more to blame for any slow suicide, i'd be interested to hear your views.

Mary Lou, ahh Mary Lou.
What was her career description again at one stage, peace negotiator or something ?
How many parties did she try until she finally got to run for election ?

I guess all those buying their fuel in the South and their beer in the North would gladly welcome united Ireland :rolleyes:
And besides what would the guys in South Armagh do ?

SF policies will only sell to the unemployed and people on very basic income.
Saying that their consituency is increasing all the time :mad:

Bobeagleburger

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I would never for any reason support SF in goverment.

enlighten us. please.

djpbarry

Dob74 wrote: »

I dont understand why people have a problem with SF.

bbc.co.uk wrote:

Detective Jerry McCabe was killed and another officer wounded during an attempted robbery at Adare in County Limerick in June 1996.

Four men were later convicted of his manslaughter and Sinn Fein has been calling for their release under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3704633.stm

That's reason enough for me to never offer any support to Sinn Féin. Ever.

yomchi

jmayo wrote: »

Mary Lou, ahh Mary Lou.
What was her career description again at one stage, peace negotiator or something ?
How many parties did she try until she finally got to run for election ?

I guess all those buying their fuel in the South and their beer in the North would gladly welcome united Ireland :rolleyes:
And besides what would the guys in South Armagh do ?

SF policies will only sell to the unemployed and people on very basic income.
Saying that their consituency is increasing all the time :mad:

Roll out the ignorance, cheap shots and revisionism all the ingredients needed to make the big 'I've no idea what i'm talking about' cake.

Why don't you tell us how many parties Mary Lou was a member of and for how long. Do you know?

LordSutch

But the woman speaks in soudbites. I listened to her for all of ten minutes on the TV last night and I heard nothing new, apart from "People have a right to be free" > "Everybody's vote should be equal" > "My vote is no more important than your vote" > "Let me be perfectly clear about this" > "The Government should work for all the people" > "We will do away with poverty & seperatisim" > "We will do this & we will do that, we also demand this & that" etc etc etc :rolleyes:

If you listen closely to her, she actually says nothing new!

the_syco

Koloman wrote: »

Local government is one thing, but to have Sinn Fein in the National goverment would be the equivalent of a slow suicide. How can a party with a leader in another jurisdiction be taken seriously?

If SF got in and applied a higher corpo rate, it'd be a quick suicide.

Dob74 wrote: »

Well, I understand if you are a drug dealer and dont want to be knee-capped.

The 'RA only knee-capped you if you didn't pay protection money.

djpbarry wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3704633.stm

That's reason enough for me to never offer any support to Sinn Féin. Ever.

Agreed.

=-=

Would never support SF in government. They seem to be out of touch with how f**ked we'd be if they increased the tax for foreign corpo's, and as I work in one, I ain't voting them in. They do great work up the north, I won't deny that, but they should think of staying up there.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Leaving aside any bias regarding their past and the many unanswered questions Gerry Adams remains deaf to. The speech was hackneyed, and trite. He played to his audience and never once proposed anything concrete. I would never vote for any government involving SF as they have never come up with a single proposal that demonstrated any iota of understanding of how an ecomony works. They just knock what others propose or come out with generalisations that suggest they think Tax Tax and Tax are the only way forward. If I didn't know better I'd think they have Maxist Leninist tendancies.
As regard a governemet of "National Unity" there are argumnets that we need an opposition to keep our system of Government honest. (Hard to imagine it less honest but the argument still holds.

Bobeagleburger

djpbarry wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3704633.stm

That's reason enough for me to never offer any support to Sinn Féin. Ever.

That were the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. The Shankill butchers were released too, they killed hundreds of innocent Catholics.

Anyway this is going way OT

Some support SF, some dont, some support FF, some dont and so on.

As for who to put in the next Government, god knows.

One things for certain though, a change a needed.

Liam Byrne

rarnes1 wrote: »

That were the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. The Shankill butchers were released too, they killed hundreds of innocent Catholics.

Here we go again.......is anyone asking us to vote for the Shankill butchers ?
So the above is completely and utterly irrelevant.

A perfectly valid reason was posted for not voting SF, and you reply with an equally valid reason for not voting for someone else ? :rolleyes:

Is that somehow supposed to negate the 100% validity of the earlier reason ?

Imagine this one:

Mick : "Bertie's dodgy, so I'm not voting for him"
Paddy : "Well, Joe down the road is dodgy too...."
Mick : "Really ? Guess I'll vote for Bertie so."

:rolleyes: