Would you support it?

HydeRoad

There's only one thing worse than a government party funded by builders, developers, bankers, and brown envelopes.

That would be a government party funded by bombers, murderers, smugglers, extortionists and their ragbag apologists.

No thanks.

road_2_damascus

donegalfella wrote: »

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...its easy to have your view-point if you did not grow up under the yoke of the British regime, which in itself, was criminality protected by government, first under Heath and continued under Thatcher

LordSutch

road_2_damascus wrote: »

...its easy to have your view-point if you did not grow up under the yoke of the British regime, which in itself, was criminality protected by government, first under Heath and continued under Thatcher

Ah yes Gerry, the excuses because of the British Regime, Queens has a lot to answer for

Nodin

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Here we go again.......is anyone asking us to vote for the Shankill butchers ?

At this stage we might be as well to bury the carving knife and give them a go. Cuts are needed after all.

Camelot wrote:

Ah yes Gerry, the excuses because of the British Regime, Queens has a lot to answer for

Well, it wasn't because of Lichtenstein, or Portugal, (which is a shame..imagine if paddys day was like this....

djpbarry

rarnes1 wrote: »

That were the terms of the Good Friday Agreement.

I don't care. The case of Jerry McCabe illustrates the utter hypocrisy of Sinn Féin. I will allow John Minihan to explain:

John Minihan wrote:

The IRA statement on the day was that none of its volunteers or units was in any way involved in the incident in Adare, that there was absolutely no IRA involvement. Mr. Adams denounced the killing of Jerry McCabe as totally and absolutely wrong. He indignantly attacked those who sought to link Sinn Féin to the killing. Two days later, the IRA admitted responsibility. Having done so, it then set about undermining the justice system in the State by intimidating witnesses. One witness served 18 months in prison for contempt of court rather than give evidence. We should not forget this.

I have a difficulty with the fact that Pearse McAuley, who was involved in this incident, was only 12 months out of Portlaoise Prison at the time. Those involved have shown absolutely no remorse for their actions on that day. One of the first steps in reconciliation is a show of remorse. What we have is the glorification of the act and the manufacturing of bodhráns signed by the McCabe killers for export to the United States. Sinn Féin Members of the Oireachtas have posed with the killers for photographs.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=SEN20040519.xml&Dail=29&Ex=All&Page=9

rarnes1 wrote: »

The Shankill butchers were released too, they killed hundreds of innocent Catholics.

The Shankill butchers were scum too. Happy now?

rarnes1 wrote: »

Anyway this is going way OT

This is not off-topic. We're talking about the (remote) possibility of Sinn Fein in government and I am explaining why they will never enjoy my support.

yomchi

Another thread ruined.

Permabear

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O'Morris

I think Sinn Fein has a bright future in the 26 counties but I'm not sure about Gerry Adams' Sinn Fein. I think there'll be a split in the party in the next few months over the issue of immigration. The emergence of an anti-mass-immigration party is almost inevitable in the current climate but I don't think it will be a right-wing, anti-Sinner party. I can see it coming from the nationalist working-class Sein Feiners who make up most of the party's front-line activists and from whom they get most of their support. I know several republicans who work in constuction (the kind of riff-raff who feel proud to be Irish) who would normally vote for Sinn Fein but who are not happy about the PC, pro-immigration stance of the party leadership, particularly now that we're in a severe economic downturn. An anti-mass-immigration version of Sinn Fein would be almost certain to get a huge level of support among working-class voters in both parts of the country.

Of course the provos could prevent this happening by changing their attitude to mass immigration. They could look at changing their policies so that they better reflect the views of their voters. If they did that they would see a massive increase in their share of the vote. I can't see it happening though. Gerry Adams is too much of a left-winger.

yomchi

donegalfella wrote: »

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I don't expect everyone to agree with me or my views, you've missed the point. A good topic has been wrecked by those who don't wish to discuss the politics of Sinn Féin. Instead they load the thread with inaccuracies and ignorance. Things have moved on, but they don't seem to realise that.

As for Nationalistic Socialist views - are you insinuating I'm a fascist?

I don't see the need for you inverted comma's on the term national government - what about that deserves your Sics??

Also FYI, the word Chara means Friend in our national language. Don't be afraid of it, I prefer to use it instead of such titles as 'bud' - 'buddie' or 'mate' -

ceart go leor chara?

I repeat - another thread ruined.

yomchi

O'Morris wrote: »

I think Sinn Fein has a bright future in the 26 counties but I'm not sure about Gerry Adams' Sinn Fein. I think there'll be a split in the party in the next few months over the issue of immigration. The emergence of an anti-mass-immigration party is almost inevitable in the current climate but I don't think it will be a right-wing, anti-Sinner party. I can see it coming from the nationalist working-class Sein Feiners who make up most of the party's front-line activists and from whom they get most of their support. I know several republicans who work in constuction (the kind of riff-raff who feel proud to be Irish) who would normally vote for Sinn Fein but who are not happy about the PC, pro-immigration stance of the party leadership, particularly now that we're in a severe economic downturn. An anti-mass-immigration version of Sinn Fein would be almost certain to get a huge level of support among working-class voters in both parts of the country.

Of course the provos could prevent this happening by changing their attitude to mass immigration. They could look at changing their policies so that they better reflect the views of their voters. If they did that they would see a massive increase in their share of the vote. I can't see it happening though. Gerry Adams is too much of a left-winger.

I commend your attempt to talk policy chara, or is mate better suited?

However you are a trillion miles off the mark. There will be no split based on the immigration policy. Also the front line activists are by and large are not simply nationalist, especially in the south. The front line activists are very much a left wing bunch.
Tragically, racism is around in abundance and it should be confronted head on. I can assure you SF will not changing it'a policies to appease some sort of half educated rascist bloc that exists on building sights, or any where for that matter.

Nodin

O'Morris wrote: »

I know several republicans who work in constuction (the kind of riff-raff who feel proud to be Irish) who would normally vote for Sinn Fein but who are not happy about the PC, pro-immigration stance of the party leadership, particularly now that we're in a severe economic downturn.

Personally, I'd take that as a ringing endorsement. Anyone who thinks Republicanism is about whinging at immigrants, 'they tuk de jabs' and 'dem nijeerians an tha free cars' is badly mistaken. Thats the kind of thing we don't want.

Liam Byrne

Jon wrote: »

A good topic has been wrecked by those who don't wish to discuss the politics of Sinn Féin. Instead they load the thread with inaccuracies and ignorance. Things have moved on, but they don't seem to realise that.

The politics of Sinn Fein are not contained in soundbytes and speeches; they are contained in their actions, which unfortunately include everything mentioned above.

So we ARE discussing what they stand for, ergo their politics.

Having Gerry Adams and his party talk about justice and criminality - while still doing the above - is like having FF talk about accountability and open-ness. :rolleyes:

If Gerry & Co - or Cowen & Co, for that matter - don't like our views of their actions, then they need to change their actions and excuses.

Simple as.

djpbarry

Jon wrote: »

A good topic has been wrecked by those who don't wish to discuss the politics of Sinn Féin.

Go ahead – discuss them. Beyond the whole ‘United Ireland’ malarkey, I don’t think Sinn Féin have any concrete policies. They’re a one-trick pony.

Jon wrote: »

Instead they load the thread with inaccuracies and ignorance.

You might point out the inaccuracies in what I said. A party’s support of murderers is a perfectly valid reason for myself (and others) not to support said party.

Jon wrote: »

Things have moved on, but they don't seem to realise that.

Do Sinn Féin realise that? Checked out the merchandise in their shop lately, have ya?

yomchi

djpbarry wrote: »

Go ahead – discuss them. Beyond the whole ‘United Ireland’ malarkey, I don’t think Sinn Féin have any concrete policies. They’re a one-trick pony.
You might point out the inaccuracies in what I said. A party’s support of murderers is a perfectly valid reason for myself (and others) not to support said party.
Do Sinn Féin realise that? Checked out the merchandise in their shop lately, have ya?

LOL Touché

Permabear

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O'Morris

Jon wrote:

I commend your attempt to talk policy chara, or is mate better suited?

Sean Buachail! Nil fhios agam an focal gaeilge le "chum" ach is feider leat "sean chara" a usaid.

Jon wrote:

However you are a trillion miles off the mark. There will be no split based on the immigration policy.

I don't think it will be a major split. The party membership will remain mostly the same. I think it will be similar to what happened in the 1980s with republican sinn fein only with less publicity i.e. no major walkout. A small breakaway group of disgruntled Sinn Fein supporters will eventually regroup as a political party with the words "Sinn Fein" in their name. In time that party will grow and it will overtake the provos in the 26 counties and possibly in the 6 counties as well.

Jon wrote:

Also the front line activists are by and large are not simply nationalist, especially in the south.

They are nationalists though and I think many of them would not be happy about the direction the country is heading in. I think many of them can see the contradiction of a nationalist party like Sinn Fein being big fans of mass immigration.

Jon wrote:

I can assure you SF will not changing it'a policies to appease some sort of half educated rascist bloc that exists on building sights, or any where for that matter.

It's not about appeasing a half-educated racist bloc. It's not racist to be concerned about the short-term economic consequences and the long-term cultural consequences of mass immigration.

donegalfella wrote:

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Did you not do Irish for the leaving cert? How could you not know that the word chara means friend.

I bet even djpbarry knew what it meant.

yomchi

donegalfella wrote: »

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riiiiight.... :rolleyes:

If thats the best you can come up with. Pathetic really.

Permabear

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yomchi

O'Morris wrote: »

Sean Buachail! Nil fhios agam an focal gaeilge le "chum" ach is feider leat "sean chara" a usaid.




I don't think it will be a major split. The party membership will remain mostly the same. I think it will be similar to what happened in the 1980s with republican sinn fein only with less publicity i.e. no major walkout. A small breakaway group of disgruntled Sinn Fein supporters will eventually regroup as a political party with the words "Sinn Fein" in their name. In time that party will grow and it will overtake the provos in the 26 counties and possibly in the 6 counties as well.




They are nationalists though and I think many of them would not be happy about the direction the country is heading in. I think many of them can see the contradiction of a nationalist party like Sinn Fein being big fans of mass immigration.




It's not about appeasing a half-educated racist bloc. It's not racist to be concerned about the short-term economic consequences and the long-term cultural consequences of mass immigration.




Did you not do Irish for the leaving cert? How could you not know that the word chara means friend.

I bet even djpbarry knew what it meant.

Ah maith go leor, an focail 'sean chara' = old friend.

Just about the highlighted paragraph. I disagree, I can't see that happening at all to be honest. In 1986, the split occured when the Adams leadership pushed through a dropping of abstentionism from Leinster house and a handful followed Ruari O'Bradaigh out of the Árd Fheis to set up RSF. They are a stagnent and ageing group!

Nodin

donegalfella wrote: »

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I seem to remember an attempt at a similar alliance of convenience between the Zionist "Stern Gang" and the Nazis. Likewise one might point to the unlikely alliance of American demorcrats seeking aid from French monarchists and other unlikely bedfellows throughout history. In the rush to try and score a point, these things tend to be missed, it seems.

donegalfella wrote: »

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You'll find the constitution disagrees with you.

Amazing the sneers and jibes that accompany the use of ones native tongue.

yomchi

Amazing the sneers and jibes that accompany the use of ones native tongue

Cinnte! It's a disgrace really.

Permabear

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yomchi

donegalfella wrote: »

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You are well and truly lost. This type of explanation depresses me.

Nodin

Jon wrote: »

You are well and truly lost. This type of explanation depresses me.

The post-colonial mentality hasn't gone away, you know....

drunkmonkey

I think it's a good time to get Sinn Fein into government, there was no point having them while the celtic tiger was roaring but now the enonomy is on the dwindle it could be the safest time economically to push through a united Ireland...a united Ireland would definatley help our economy.

as they say there's no time like the presesnt....

O'Morris

Jon wrote:

Just about the highlighted paragraph. I disagree, I can't see that happening at all to be honest. In 1986, the split occured when the Adams leadership pushed through a dropping of abstentionism from Leinster house and a handful followed Ruari O'Bradaigh out of the Árd Fheis to set up RSF. They are a stagnent and ageing group!

Concern over the impact of mass immigration is a major issue among the working-class population who would normally vote for Sinn Fein. Unless the provisionals face up to that they risk losing much of their support to people who are not afraid to represent the silent-majority view. A nationalist, non-PC version of Sinn Fein which wants to see a reduction in immigration would be certain to get a huge amount of support from that working-class demographic.

Permabear

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Nodin

O'Morris wrote: »

(snip)demographic.

That kind of BNP exploitative pandering has nothing to do with Republicanism. The fact that some are taken in by it is all the more reason to get out there and educate people on the matter.

I would further question how anyone could have any involvement with PSF etc and have any notion that it does, certainly not any form of "silent majority".

Nodin

donegalfella wrote: »

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No, because of your attitude towards it.

donegalfella wrote: »

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I don't recall any such "agenda"s being detailed, let alone rammed down anyones throat here or elsewhere.

donegalfella wrote: »

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Considering many of your posts on the immigration/asylum issues I find that a rather amusing remark.

Diogenes

See what bothers me about SF is their rampant opportunism and two faced behaviour.

They will opportunistically seize any issue and run with it with they can been seen to gain votes.

Nationally Sinn Fein tried to present themselves as opposed to the bin tax, yet SF in sligo voted for it.

Pre the Iraq war SF tried to position themselves as front and centre of the anti war movement, yet when Bush and Blair needed some window dressing for the Pre War summit in hillsborough, SF meekly obliged.

Sinn Fein portrayed themselves as pro worker and pro state, but accepted PFI hospitals in NI.

South of the border SF is anti abortion, try getting that kind of rhetoric out of SF in the North (and don't forget they're the "all Ireland" Party).

At an Ard Fheis were Adams calls for the punishment of all criminals, as well as passing a motion demanding the release of the killers of Gerry McCabe.

Nothing more personifies SF than Mary Lou, a career politician who jumped from FF to SF because of pure ambition. A woman who defined the cold blooded murder of a mother as "wrong" but not a crime.

SF are a party of self serving political opportunists and thats why they won't get my vote.