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Would you support it?

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    #92
    O'Morris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭O'Morris


    Nodin wrote:
    And I'd see that you're entirely deluded. The BNP is a right wing, narrow minded racist party.

    Nationalism in Ireland is only nominally left-wing while nationalism in Britain is only nominally right-wing. BNP voters come from the same kind of background and have the economic interests as the kind of people who currently vote for Sinn Fein in this country.

    Nodin wrote:
    emmm....no. However theres always a few, and perhaps it would be as well if there was something to draw them away, leaving the rest better for their absence.

    I'm not talking about a fall in membership of the party. I'm talking about a fall in support for the party at election time. A nationalist rival to Sinn Fein (particularly a breakaway party) with a commitment to do something about immigration would be almost certain to take a huge amount of support from the provos.


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    #93
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    O'Morris wrote: »
    Nationalism in Ireland is only nominally left-wing while nationalism in Britain is only nominally right-wing. BNP voters come from the same kind of background and have the economic interests as the kind of people who currently vote for Sinn Fein in this country.

    I'm not sure what is the most fantastic post on this site over the past few days - Hitler as a socialist or the BNP as 'nominally' right wing.

    There is some outlandish nonsense being posted round here at the moment.


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    #94
    O'Morris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭O'Morris


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote:
    Hitler as a socialist

    Hitler was a socialist and he was a great friend of the working man. Read up on the history of the Third Reich and of the great progress they made in improving the lives of the average working man.

    OhNoYouDidn't wrote:
    or the BNP as 'nominally' right wing.

    The BNP have taken a left-ward, populist slant in recent years in an effort to attract working-class labour voters to the party. Many of their policies would be well to the left of the conservative party.


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    #95
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Only a variant of Poes law gives me restraint.....


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    #96
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    O'Morris wrote: »
    Hitler was a socialist
    .

    *snigger
    O'Morris wrote: »
    and he was a great friend of the working man. Read up on the history of the Third Reich and of the great progress they made in improving the lives of the average working man.
    .

    Let's see...he had all unions dissolved and had any who resisted beaten, tortured and/or killed, banned strikes..persecuted Jewish and Gay workers..dissolved their political parties, banned dissent..

    O - and started a war which got millions of them killed and leveled great swathes of their homes. And the whole genocide thing, not that that seems to feature on your radar.


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    #97
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #98
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #99
    Martyr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭Martyr


    donegalfella wrote:
    This post has been deleted.

    For irish historical purposes, its very useful.

    i would love to speak irish fluently..just because its part of my roots.
    Unfortunately, alot of teachers/schools in Ireland aren't capable of teaching it properly and that is probably why it is in decline.

    but atleast in donegal, there are the gaeltacht areas.

    "A people without the knowledge of their past history, origin and culture is like a tree without roots." :)


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    #100
    nhughes100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭nhughes100


    MMMM 7 pages and not much on Sinn Fein's actual policies, have a look and see how they would run us into a Cuban style Utopia. Sinn Fein squandered the political capital they gained after the peace process. They're good for soundbites,catchphrases & Rhetoric but they can't be taken seriously as a political entity in the Republic. They remind me of the hippies in the South park episode where a music festival descends on the town. Full of well meaning idealist principles but very little in the way of practical real world progress.

    The best alternative at the moment would be a Labour led coalition with Gilmore as Taoiseach, propped up by FG who have also squandered one political opportunity after another.


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    #101
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Really? Would you mind pointing out where I stated that?

    Or would you care not to take my answers out of context in future. Eithers good with me.


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    #102
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    O'Morris wrote: »
    Hitler was a socialist and he was a great friend of the working man. Read up on the history of the Third Reich and of the great progress they made in improving the lives of the average working man.




    Pity his largess wasn't extended to those forced into slave labour. Not to mention the fact that his actions resulted in the deaths of millions of those "average working men".


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    #103
    O'Morris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭O'Morris


    Nodin wrote:
    *snigger

    You probably think that a man can't be a socialist if he isn't also a marxist and an internationalist.

    Nodin wrote:
    Let's see...he had all unions dissolved and had any who resisted beaten, tortured and/or killed, banned strikes..persecuted Jewish and Gay workers..dissolved their political parties, banned dissent..

    I'm not saying he didn't do bad things in the process or that I agree with the things he did. I just think he was a man with a genuine concern for the well-being and the advancement of the German workers and the proof of this can be seen in all the laws and the measures introduced to improve the lives of the workers in the Third Reich. The average German worker was better off in 1938 than he had been in 1931, before Hitler came to power. People have tended to ignore the socialist part of national socialism and focus on the nationalist part. If I was a socialist I would point to pre-war Nazi Germany as an example of a successful socialist regime.

    Nodin wrote:
    O - and started a war which got millions of them killed and leveled great swathes of their homes. And the whole genocide thing, not that that seems to feature on your radar.

    It's not as if he wanted to start a world war that led to all that death and destruction.

    Donegalfella wrote:
    That is true; but, I've never seen the point of developing an interest in Irish. My interest in French was driven mostly by the desire to read certain great French writers in the original

    Is your French to a high enough standard that you would be able to read the work of French writers in the original French with as much understanding and appreciation for the content as a native French speaker?

    Donegalfella wrote:
    The UNESCO Red Book on Endangered Languages estimates that there are around 20,000 fluent Irish speakers left, and notes that the standard of Irish is getting poorer and more diluted with every passing generation. Just listen to Irish language TV and note how many English phrases are used.

    The language is in a bad way alright. Just because it's on a life-support machine doesn't mean it has any less value in our eyes though. There's life in the old boy yet.

    Donegalfella wrote:
    I've told you before that I'm likely descended from "the gael" on my mother's side. Nevertheless, I would hotly dispute that having any relation to this country's history has anything to do with ancestry.

    I think an interest in history has a lot to do with ancestry. If I found out that my great-grandfather was a Russian I would suddenly develop an increased interest in the history of Russia and I would identity less with the history of Ireland.

    Donegalfella wrote:
    I know lots of people descended from the "gael" who could barely tell you what happened last year. They have a hugely simplistic and uninformed idea of Irish history.

    But they still value the history and the heritage of the country as the history and the heritage of their country and their people.

    Donegalfella wrote:
    So they were somehow predestined to become French-speakers themselves, then?

    They weren't pre-destined to become French-speakers but their identity as French-descended people was probably a factor in their embracing of French culture and their indifference to gaelic Irish culture.

    Donegalfella wrote:
    I think it's the wide experience of many people in this country that compulsory Irish only inculcates a hatred of the language

    I don't think that's true. Most people hate the language in school but after they leave school their attitude changes. I don't personally know any Irish adult who would feel the same way towards the language now that they did when they were forced to learn it in secondary school.

    Donegalfella wrote:
    If the policy of compulsory Irish were working, surely more than 3 percent of the population would use it in their homes and communities?

    I don't think the policy of compulsory Irish is working and I would like to see a more effective policy. I would like to see twice as many gaelscoilleanna and I'd like to see all advertisements on our national broadcaster as gaeilge.

    While I agree with you that the current policy isn't working, the difference is that I would still support a policy that did work. You seem to be opposed to any attempt to revive the language, regardless of whether the attempt is successful or not.

    deadhead13 wrote:
    Pity his largess wasn't extended to those forced into slave labour.

    I don't think they had slave labour in Germany before the war but I might be wrong about that. They had concentration camps but I don't think they had slave labour. My description of the nazi regime as socialist really only relates to pre-war Germany.


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    #104
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    O'Morris wrote: »
    You probably think that a man can't be a socialist if he isn't also a marxist and an internationalist. .

    What I think is that Hitler was a scum bag.
    O'Morris wrote: »
    I'm not (........)example of a successful socialist regime. .

    Simplistic tosh. However it does explain your stance on the BNP
    O'Morris wrote: »
    It's not as if he wanted to start a world war that led to all that death and destruction. .

    Why not start a thread on it and explain to us your fascinating view.


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    #105
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #106
    Martyr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭Martyr


    donegalfella wrote:
    This post has been deleted.

    would you then say the same about religion?

    its a desservice alright..i mean irish is not taught very well in schools.


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    #107
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    O'Morris wrote: »




    I'm not saying he didn't do bad things in the process or that I agree with the things he did. I just think he was a man with a genuine concern for the well-being and the advancement of the German workers and the proof of this can be seen in all the laws and the measures introduced to improve the lives of the workers in the Third Reich. The average German worker was better off in 1938 than he had been in 1931, before Hitler came to power. People have tended to ignore the socialist part of national socialism and focus on the nationalist part. If I was a socialist I would point to pre-war Nazi Germany as an example of a successful socialist regime.




    I would suggest that it this was a popularlist move and a means to a end, extended only to those of good arian stock. You cannot divorce pre-war Nazi Germany from what eventually happened. One led to the other.


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    #108
    Diogenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    Nodin wrote: »
    *snigger



    Let's see...he had all unions dissolved and had any who resisted beaten, tortured and/or killed, banned strikes..persecuted Jewish and Gay workers..dissolved their political parties, banned dissent..

    O - and started a war which got millions of them killed and leveled great swathes of their homes. And the whole genocide thing, not that that seems to feature on your radar.

    Not to harp on, but most of the public works like the autobahns were the direct result of slave labour, and the Germany economic worked was it was a war footing soon after Hitler took power, the economy was driven by large government spending on military contracts, and reducing unemployment through a massive military recruitment drive. German needed to go to war in 1938/39 it would have gone bankrupt without it.

    So a warmongering, slave driving, union destroying, racist, fascist dictatorship is a friend of the working man.

    With friends like that, etc etc...


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    #109
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Jon wrote: »
    Tá tu ceart faoi an gramadach ansin!
    :eek:

    The correct grammatical phrase would be "Tá ceart agat"....but then only a true Irishman / lover of the language / native speaker would know that... ;):D


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    #110
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #111
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Jon wrote: »
    unity makes economic sense.
    Neither the Republic of Ireland, nor England/Scotland "wants" Northern Ireland. Both governments pump monies into it, and it stands ok. And I doubt that the people in NI will welcome with open arms our health service.
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    :eek:

    The correct grammatical phrase would be "Tá ceart agat"....but then only a true Irishman / lover of the language / native speaker would know that... ;):D
    Correct in what regions dialect?


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    #112
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    In much the same way that if you went onto the astronomy section here talking about a flat earth you would be laughed at in an entrenched manner.

    I've already recieved a tick from the mods about commenting on your maturity levels, so I'll let it pass.


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    #113
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #114
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Source?

    Hitler in his beer hall days calling himself a socialist to have a go at the Jews who 'ran' the capitalist system is irrelevant here. Look at his actions and where he is positioned on the right. He alligned himself with the business classes and ruthlessly attacked the established left wing parties.

    He is the posterboy for what happens when capitalism loses run of the monster it created to defend itself against socialist agitation in the 20's.

    Let me guess, you believed Bertie when he described himself as a socialist too, because all state intervention in the economy is socialistic.

    The harder you try the more bizarre you sound.


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    #115
    Diogenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.


    "I am one of the few Socialists left in Irish Politics"

    - Bertie Ahern, Irish Times interview, Nov 13, 2004.

    One can claim to a a socialist, however history will judge you on your actions not your words. Neither Adolf Hitler or Bertie Ahern, by their actions can be considered socialists.

    PS Dongelfella, shall I give you a list of quotes that demonstrates Hitler's duplicitous rhetoric?


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    #116
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #117
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    MY REVISIONISM? :eek:

    Brilliant stuff DF, fair play. Your obstinance is admirable. Impervious to logic.

    Would you accept that most people would class Hitler as a right wing dictator?


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    #118
    The Raven.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭The Raven.


    O'Morris wrote: »
    I've always considered that to be a queer use of syntax. In the syntax of Connacht Irish (real Irish) the pronoun usually comes after the subject e.g. is fear e.

    It is often impossible to accurately translate Irish into English, as I would imagine it is with most languages. I’m not sure why at present, but there is a subtle difference between ‘Is ár theanga féin é’ and ‘Is é ár theanga féin’ in the Irish language. However, my intuition tells me that the former is merely a statement of fact, while the latter has deeper connotations such as ‘after all it is our own language’ or ‘it is our own language we are talking about here’. I may be totally wrong of course, but in the context of the discussion, I feel the latter carries more weight.

    I won’t argue about the ‘Connacht Irish’ being the ‘real Irish’. However, do bear in mind the phrase, ‘to hell or to Connaght’. Some of our crowd ended up there and I’m sure they must have had some influence on the dialect. :)

    An bhfuil tu ag iarraidh a thaispeant nach gaeilgeoir fior me toisc nach bhfuil me ag usaid an gramadach ceart? Nil me ag usaid an gramadach ceart as bearla ach an oiread ach ni fheachaim einne ag scriobh faoi sin. Ta me fos ag foghlaim an teanga agus ta me ag deanamh mo dhicheall. Ta nios mo gaeilge agam na Donegalfella agus sin an rud is tabhactacht.

    Gabhaim pardún agat mar gheall ar sin. De gná, ní tráchtaim ar gramadach anseo, ach amháin insan forum Béarla. Is minic a úsáideann daoine 'áirithe' :rolleyes: an Gaeilge chun bheith ag ligean air go bhuill síad níos Gaeilge ná éinne eile. Ní mise Gaeilgóir, ach tá níos mó ná cúpla focail agam, agus ba mhaith liom mo dhícheall do dhéanamh freisin sa teanga. Go n-éirí an t-ádh le do Ghaeilge!

    Ta me in gra le djpbarry chomh maith.

    You’re in love with Djpbarry? :cool: Sin scéal eile ;)!!


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    #119
    The Raven.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭The Raven.


    Jon wrote: »
    Tá tu ceart faoi an gramadach ansin![/quote

    Go raibh maith agat :)!
    You misunderstand SF in a geographical sense. Sinn Féin are not a northern party, they are a national party, in fact the only party on the island which is organised in all counties. Sinn Féin were originally founded in the south many years before the partition of our country. So saying you wish SF would stay up north is off the mark.

    I do realize that. However, with Gerry Adams at the helm, pardon me for seeing the present day Sinn Féin in a different light.


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    #120
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    The Raven. wrote: »
    Gabhaim pardún agat mar gheall ar sin. De gná, ní tráchtaim ar gramadach anseo, ach amháin insan forum Béarla. Is minic a úsáideann daoine 'áirithe' :rolleyes: an Gaeilge chun bheith ag ligean air go bhuill síad níos Gaeilge ná éinne eile. Ní mise Gaeilgóir, ach tá níos mó ná cúpla focail agam, agus ba mhaith liom mo dhícheall do dhéanamh freisin sa teanga. Go n-éirí an t-ádh le do Ghaeilge!

    Whats all that about then :rolleyes:


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    #121
    O'Morris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭O'Morris


    The Raven. wrote:
    Gabhaim pardún agat mar gheall ar sin. De gná, ní tráchtaim ar gramadach anseo, ach amháin insan forum Béarla. Is minic a úsáideann daoine 'áirithe' an Gaeilge chun bheith ag ligean air go bhuill síad níos Gaeilge ná éinne eile. Ní mise Gaeilgóir, ach tá níos mó ná cúpla focail agam, agus ba mhaith liom mo dhícheall do dhéanamh freisin sa teanga. Go n-éirí an t-ádh le do Ghaeilge!

    Go raibh maith agat, shean-chum! Beidh me ina fior-gaeilgoir faoi deireadh an bhlian seo.

    The Raven. wrote:
    You’re in love with Djpbarry?

    What? Me? In love with djpbarry? You must have mistranslated. My feelings towards djpbarry are entirely platonic.

    Camelot wrote:
    Whats all that about then

    He was discussing our plans to go up to the north to liberate our fellow countrymen in the occupied six counties by force and to bring the protestants back into communion with the true church. He said it's important that the orangemen don't find out and that's why we can only discuss it in our native tongue.


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