Labour-Sinn Fein Coalition: Gaining Traction

Euro_Kraut

The 'Guns and Roses Coalition'?

Diogenes

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Interesting to read about Gerry Adams' Ard Fheis speech in the paper today.....apparently he says that dodgy banking goings-on should be treated as serious crimes (I actually agree with him) and that all crime should be dealt with and punished....

Yup, "all" crime.

So I'd support him, right ? WRONG!

Yeah Mary Lou Mc Donald's memorable performance on Prime Time, where she classified Jean Mc Conville's murder as "wrong" but not a crime.

The fact Adams was talking about all crimes should be dealt with and punished at the same Ard Fheis where a motion was passed demanding the release of the Mc Cabe Killers.

Note to people who think a SF government would "rock", these kinds of reprehensible double think is why most of Ireland don't want to see SF in government.

SF trying to be a "law and order" party? Oh come on.

So I'm with ionix above; SF can join FF in the sense that any party that joins a coalition with either of them can say goodbye to my vote.

Which is the point, it's entirely possible that we could see an SF/Labour coalition, post a GE, but a pre election pact? Whats in it for Labour? They'll scare off many of the moderate voters that they want to pick off from FF/Greens, and for what a pre election pact with a party that will likely have a low single figure mandate.

is_that_so

Diogenes wrote: »

Which is the point, it's entirely possible that we could see an SF/Labour coalition, post a GE, but a pre election pact? Whats in it for Labour? They'll scare off many of the moderate voters that they want to pick off from FF/Greens, and for what a pre election pact with a party that will likely have a low single figure mandate.

Agree with most of this but it's not possible under any circumstances. The arithmetic is completely against it in any universe, unless everyone over the age of 40 was precluded from voting. I believe it's an admission from SF that they are all out of ideas and desperately need something to hitch to.

Diogenes

is_that_so wrote: »

Agree with most of this but it's not possible under any circumstances. The arithmetic is completely against it in any universe, unless everyone over the age of 40 was precluded from voting. I believe it's an admission from SF that they are all out of ideas and desperately need something to hitch to.

i would agree aside from the historic labour/ FF coalition of 1993, labour received a massive mandate from a country sick of FF, and they just went ahead and got into coalition with them. Nothing is impossible in Irish politics I just think a Labour SF coalition pre an election is incredibly unlikely.

is_that_so

Diogenes wrote: »

i would agree aside from the historic labour/ FF coalition of 1993, labour received a massive mandate from a country sick of FF, and they just went ahead and got into coalition with them. Nothing is impossible in Irish politics I just think a Labour SF coalition pre an election is incredibly unlikely.

Labour got only 33 seats then and in fairness that is really the limit of their appeal. They would need to get up to 35% plus of the vote to really make an impact and they have never shown numbers like that ever. To get to that point FF would need to drop to the mid-teens in support. SF will not get any more than 10 so the coalition option hasn't a hope as there is still a centre-right party to vote for ;FG. They could potentially end up in the 70s. As for the possibility of a pact no argument from me on that. Labour will not engage in any pacts after what happened last election.

Diogenes

is_that_so wrote: »

Labour got only 33 seats then and in fairness that is really the limit of their appeal. They would need to get up to 35% plus of the vote to really make an impact and they have never shown numbers like that ever. To get to that point FF would need to drop to the mid-teens in support. SF will not get any more than 10 so the coalition option hasn't a hope as there is still a centre-right party to vote for ;FG. They could potentially end up in the 70s. As for the possibility of a pact no argument from me on that. Labour will not engage in any pacts after what happened last election.

Oh I agree, it's just if there is one thing certain, we're facing the most radical shake up of the Dail we've seen since the 30s in the next election. I refuse to deal anything out.

Liam Byrne

Well the SF Ard Fheis showed yet again the two-faced-ness of Irish politics.....they tore strips of the Greens for propping up FF and called FF every name under the sun [both perfectly justified] and THEN....


.....FAILED TO DISCOUNT THE POSSIBILITY OF A COALITION WITH FF !!!! FF_S(f) :eek:

Bottle_of_Smoke

With the economy the way it is you never know what might happen. I don't think Sinn fein will get near 10 seats though. So long as Gerry Adams is anyway active people think IRA when they hear about Sinn Fein.

I think Labour could do very well. A lot of FF voters are very Anti-FG so I think they'll start putting Labour First and a preference to other parties excluding FG

Diogenes

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well the SF Ard Fheis showed yet again the two-faced-ness of Irish politics.....they tore strips of the Greens for propping up FF and called FF every name under the sun [both perfectly justified] and THEN....


.....FAILED TO DISCOUNT THE POSSIBILITY OF A COALITION WITH FF !!!! FF_S(f) :eek:

sounds like they're borrowing the PD playbook circa 2002.

yomchi

HydeRoad wrote: »

Ask first, where Sinn Féin party funding comes from.

Then make your choice.

O wise one enlighten us.

Where does it come from?

Last I knew Sinn Féin was a legally registered political party here in Ireland which has to be audited every year by the relevant authorities - however I'm guessing you know more than us mere individuals, please do tell all - I'll be the first to pick up the phone to the revenue and the Gardai and report them.

Wainting...patiently...

Time Magazine

Jon wrote: »

O wise one enlighten us.

Where does it come from?

Last I knew Sinn Féin was a legally registered political party here in Ireland which has to be audited every year by the relevant authorities - however I'm guessing you know more than us mere individuals, please do tell all - I'll be the first to pick up the phone to the revenue and the Gardai and report them.

Wainting...patiently...

Just like Fianna Fáil are audited every year and for the past two decades have been "just friends" with developers.

(Oh and btw love the quote in your sig...)

rcecil

This is an interesting discussion. I can remember hearing in Donnegal around 1998 that Sinn Fein will never get seats as they only represent 3-5 percent of the vote. Obviously the party has broken that barrier. In the last election even while losing the Dublin South seat the party increased its vote by some 20,000 and then gained Pearse Doherty's seat in the Seanad. So while many were disappointed with results it was not a rout as some have described. The party's real problems lie in the fact that in the South SF was not a real political party until recent years. It was basically a support committee for the north and had few of the necessary structures to win elections. This is now being rapidly changed and there is a huge increase in younger, more educated and idealistic candidates from all over the south.

As to Gerry Adams weaknesses on economics, he seems much more informed than the current government and corporate parties. He has been proven correct by time

Also take in to consideration the crap being spewed from right wing, corporate publications highlighting every potential republican scandal but then forgetting to retract when they are proven false. And rags like the Indo that can't cover the news without bias.

And the elimination of the Leitrim seat kept Sean MacManus from becoming TD there as well as recent cuts in council seats have made it far easier for the corporate parties to retain seats.

FG is not an option for working class people as opposition.

I support SF because:

Right on Gaza
Right on Lisbon
Right on workers issues
Right on pollution
Right on the Iraq War
Right on Equality

Time to take another look

www.sinnfein.ie

Diogenes

rcecil wrote: »

Right on Gaza

A position that costs them nothing.

Right on Lisbon

Lets see how long this holds when they have a sniff of power.

Right on workers issues

They were opposed to things like the PFI in NI, until they got into power.

Right on pollution

You mean the way they were anti bin tax until they got into power in Sligo.

Right on the Iraq War

No, sorry, of any of the anti war parties SF had the potential of making a, powerful, but symbolic, gesture by boycotting the hillisborough summit pre the Iraq war. Their presence was window dressing for Blair n Bush's war strategy meeting, they could have sent a potent image of consensus objection by not turning up this farce. They declined, and were Blair and Bush's lapdogs.

Right on Equality

Yeah show me a party in Ireland who want to keep women barefoot and pregnant.

Martyr

Diogenes wrote:

Yup now's the time for us to reach into our pocket and start paying for the economic black hole that is the 6 counties.

don't you mean 32 counties?

Diogenes

Martyr wrote: »

don't you mean 32 counties?

Well yes and no. The public sector accounts for over 60% of employment in NI, do we really need that albatross now?

Martyr

what percentage of population are public sector employees in the republic?
and how many of those do we really need?

at the moment, i think NI is better off being part of the UK.
it just sounded like you thought the republic of ireland could afford to financially support NI..which it obviously can't right now.

my mistake.

marco murphy

HydeRoad wrote: »

Ask first, where Sinn Féin party funding comes from.

Then make your choice.

Sinn Féin published its accounts and is accountable.

brianthebard

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I dont see how SF will lose votes, they will gain at least 4 seats IMO, Crowe in Tallaght, Mary Lou in Dublin Central and in the 2 Donegal constituencies.

SF were pretty confident they'd have 10 seats at the end of the last general election. Didn't they lose one instead? What are they doing to convince the electorate to vote for them? Of all the parties they are the most untested policy wise. What do they stand for that is going to improve the voter's lot?

rcecil wrote: »

And the elimination of the Leitrim seat kept Sean MacManus from becoming TD there as well as recent cuts in council seats have made it far easier for the corporate parties to retain seats.

First there was no Leitrim seat, it was Sligo-Leitrim.
Second he's a Sligo county councillor, not Leitrim, he still had the support of his constituency.
Third he wasn't elected cause he's actually not that much of a politician, because both ff and fg had two candidates, and everyone knew that Ballymote was going to have two td's at the end of the election, leaving only one seat open. That seat was never going to be sf's, no matter if the whole of leitrim voted for him.

NOGMaxpower

HydeRoad wrote: »

Ask first, where Sinn Féin party funding comes from.

Then make your choice.

You are a complete muppet, SF are the only party to have their books analysed every year by an independant ombudsman and they are squeeky clean (part of the good friday agreement). The same can't be said for any other party in Ireland.

FF is a prime example of how they lead our country into the financial crisis we now face. With under the table land deals and brown envelopes, its how they do their politics Haughey did it Ahern did it and now poor ol Lenihan & Biffo are taking the blame.

again you're quite simply a muppet

IMO SF and Labour would make a brilliant team who would bring real economic change to Ireland. If you haven't noticed all Unions have been siding with SF for the past year. A partnership is inevitable and while SF grows as a party they are breaking free from the shackles of being a Republican Party with on hand on the ballot box and the other on an armilite.

I've vote FF for most my life and in the past 7 years i've been voting SF. They're the only party who makes sense and have been flagging our economic issues for the past 10 years only now to be proven right.

Give change a chance, its clear FF, FG, PD's etc have all failed as political leaders and have no made Ireland the laughing stock of Europe. Whats the worst that could happen (Sings the Dr Pepper Tune)?

thebigcheese22

Yeah I'm not Sinn Feins biggest fan, but they are far more accountable than either FF or FG!

While there are many holes in their policies, at least they have an idea what the average guy on the street is feeling - FG and of course FF have had their heads in the clouds for decades!

Labour, Sinn Fein, and other left wing parties - a coalition you could trust in IMO

eoinbn

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

IMO SF and Labour would make a brilliant team who would bring real economic change to Ireland. If you haven't noticed all Unions have been siding with SF for the past year. A partnership is inevitable and while SF grows as a party they are breaking free from the shackles of being a Republican Party with on hand on the ballot box and the other on an armilite.

I've vote FF for most my life and in the past 7 years i've been voting SF. They're the only party who makes sense and have been flagging our economic issues for the past 10 years only now to be proven right.

The highlighted statement doesn't inspire confidence in your ability to choose a viable party.

The unions have been in bed with FF for the last 20 years, look where that got us. Unions having been running the US car industry since the 80's, look where that has got it. If you want sustainable policies the easiest way to do it is to listen to the unions and do the opposite.

It would be hard for SF to be flagging our problems for 10 years, when they really only emerged during the 2nd housing boom/bubble in '02-07. And if you watched budget day during those years you will see that it was Richard Bruton that was making the most noise regarding the spending of short-term profits on current spending instead on capital spending.

Dyr

a coalition of stickies and shinners? It would be comedy gold. Tbh the sticky elements in labour would sooner get into bed with Mary Harney, both metaphorically and literally.

LordSutch

From todays Irish Times, a very apt and chilling account of the fate that would certainly befall the Irish Labour Party, should they get into bed with the very devious & dangerous Sinn Fein.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0226/1224241828463.html

Bye Bye Labour ............ ?

nesf

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

You are a complete muppet, SF are the only party to have their books analysed every year by an independant ombudsman and they are squeeky clean (part of the good friday agreement).

Do not call people muppets on this forum.

Diogenes

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

Yeah I'm not Sinn Feins biggest fan, but they are far more accountable than either FF or FG!

Yeah because basing your yardstick on the lowest always makes you look good. It's like saying, "Now maybe I'm an alcoholic, but at least I'm not in the gutter drinking turps".

Dob74

Camelot wrote: »

From todays Irish Times, a very apt and chilling account of the fate that would certainly befall the Irish Labour Party, should they get into bed with the very devious & dangerous Sinn Fein.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0226/1224241828463.html

Bye Bye Labour ............ ?

The irishtimes is getting as bad as the indo. It makes sense for left wing parties to form a coalition. As it makes sense that FF & FG unit. Labour made a mistake of helping FG in the last election. FG got a 20 seat boost and labour got nothing.
If there is a grand coalition of the left they would be top dogs. However its unlikely that they would get enough seats.

Dyr

Camelot wrote: »

From todays Irish Times, a very apt and chilling account of the fate that would certainly befall the Irish Labour Party, should they get into bed with the very devious & dangerous Sinn Fein.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0226/1224241828463.html

Bye Bye Labour ............ ?

Flawed analysis, the SDLP always had a touch of the uncle toms about them and our northern cousins knew it. They were always bolstered by support and endorsements from both the governments, the media (and section 31) and the fact that the provos were blowing stuff up all the time which put SF beyond the pale for many voters

Once the Shinners were no longer reeking of gunpowder, the SDLPs goose was cooked as all their former buddies in parliament and the dail realised they no longer needed an acceptable face of nationalism to oppose the provo's. They did, however, need the Shinners onside. Bye bye John, hello Gerry

guinnessdrinker

Camelot wrote: »

From todays Irish Times, a very apt and chilling account of the fate that would certainly befall the Irish Labour Party, should they get into bed with the very devious & dangerous Sinn Fein.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0226/1224241828463.html

Bye Bye Labour ............ ?

I would hardly think the Irish Times of all newspapers would be inclined to produce a positive article involving the Shinners!

Carpaydiem

Diogenes wrote: »

Yeah because basing your yardstick on the lowest always makes you look good. It's like saying, "Now maybe I'm an alcoholic, but at least I'm not in the gutter drinking turps".

And given the choice, I'd vote for the alcoholic ahead of the turps drinker.

Your statement fails.

By stating 'basing your yardstick on the lowest' I assume you have in mind which party is highest up the ladder of accountability then? :rolleyes:

The fact of the matter is, I'm not sure there's a single political party on this island (or any other for that matter) that can be trusted 100%. Every party has their own agenda, and more often than not, its not for the good of the people - as it should be.

As long as there are politicians, there will be brown envelopes.

I'm not an anarchist, just a realist. Poeple complain about FF/FG, but would we have ever become so prosporous in the first place if it wasn't for FG sowing the seeds and FF nurturing the plant?

Sure, the bubble was always gonna burst, and it was going to happen whoever was in power.

People will always have opinions on how the money should have been spent, where it should go, and how bad a particular government was at dealing with a situation. But the fact of the matter is - would any other government have done any better?? I really dont think so (and I'm not an FF supporter).

Yes, Bertie should have had bigger balls when it came to some issues (national stadium for one, Harney and her feckin' blinkers managed to give that one the red light), and sure, the finances could have been dealt with better, but every government will make horrendus mistakes.

Nodin

Camelot wrote: »

From todays Irish Times, a very apt and chilling account of the fate that would certainly befall the Irish Labour Party, should they get into bed with the very devious & dangerous Sinn Fein.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0226/1224241828463.html
Bye Bye Labour ............ ?

Rather flawed and self contradictory article, resting on the premise that Mr Adams is indeed 'The Bearded One'.

The SDLP was not the most capable party up there either, IMO. In fact it only thrived while PSF was taking the abstentionist/rejectionist route with the active support of the South and London. These days it only just hangs on during elections with the help of volunteer support from FG/FF.