Help needed to recover money from sole trader who has died

olivermac

Help needed to recover money from sole trader who has died

Before I get into this I know it’s an awkward one. Three months I paid someone who is a sole trader to provide a service over a 12 month period, and I just found out at the weekend that he passed away from a Heart Attack. His firm is no longer trading and he has no Stock, Assets (House/Property)

My question is am I entitled to a pro-rata refund from the company due to the service being unavailable to me, and if so how do I go about it. Just with times being so tight at the moment I will have to get some one else to provide the service and pay a second time.
Thanks.Oliver.

Paulw

Your recourse would be to contact the executors of the estate of the deceased.

Of course, if the firm is no longer trading and there is no stock/assets, then you may not be able to recover anything. Not much can be done about that.

olivermac

Paulw wrote: »

Your recourse would be to contact the executors of the estate of the deceased.

Of course, if the firm is no longer trading and there is no stock/assets, then you may not be able to recover anything. Not much can be done about that.

Thanks Paul, I have thought of that but was not sure if now it was the right time to do so, but you think that his estate will be able to be of some help. Oliver

Paulw

They are the only people you can go to.

They may or may not be able to help, but you should contact them to see. I'd wait at least 2 weeks though, after the person is deceased, until the will and such affairs are dealt with.

It's not that unusual though, and it does happen. The hardest part will be knowing the right person to contact to follow up on your issue. Also, it might help to start off with - "My deepest sympathy for your loss, but ....."

paulmbyrne1976

Dear OP. Like Paulw said it happens but just be sure to get you hat in the ring before others like the revenue ect. I am not sure if they have first claim agains a persons estate if there is VAT or anything owed. I guess you had better check this out wilt a Solicitor. PB

the_syco

paulmbyrne1976 wrote: »

Dear OP. Like Paulw said it happens but just be sure to get you hat in the ring before others like the revenue ect. I am not sure if they have first claim agains a persons estate if there is VAT or anything owed. I guess you had better check this out wilt a Solicitor. PB

Aye. Mainly it goes in the way: government first, banks second, and then you.

paulmbyrne1976

What if its a blood from stone issue, then no one gets anything.PB

dudara

The company and the individual are indistinguishable in the case of a sole trader. Therefore the business ceases on the death of the sole trader. I don't think that you are entitled to claim anything. I'm open to correction however.

Mr. Incognito

There is no comapnay to claim from as there is no seperate legal identity- you will need to find the executor of the estate- probably the family solicitor and produce evidence of the debt- it will then be discharged out of the estate.

Big Wave

the_syco wrote:

...

Is that your PC specs in your sig?

Pat Mustard

dudara wrote: »

The company and the individual are indistinguishable in the case of a sole trader. Therefore the business ceases on the death of the sole trader. I don't think that you are entitled to claim anything. I'm open to correction however.

A sole trader is an individual, a person. If you are dealing with a sole trader, there is no company. There may be a firm, but that firm will comprise of the assets of the deceased individual. So he should write to the executor, as somebody already wrote.

dandelion

Where a sole trader dies his liabilities are met from his estate. The question is are you a creditor at all? He didn't buy something from you and not pay. You ordered a service from him which he is no longer capable of delivering. In the absence of terms and conditions of trading it is hard to know what will happen.

You need to write to the Estate of the deceased (his last address will do) enclosing details of your claim, with photocopies of the revelant documentation. If you have no documents you are on a hiding to nothing.

As a matter of interest how much money are we talking about?

olivermac

dandelion wrote: »

Where a sole trader dies his liabilities are met from his estate. The question is are you a creditor at all? He didn't buy something from you and not pay. You ordered a service from him which he is no longer capable of delivering. In the absence of terms and conditions of trading it is hard to know what will happen.

You need to write to the Estate of the deceased (his last address will do) enclosing details of your claim, with photocopies of the revelant documentation. If you have no documents you are on a hiding to nothing.

As a matter of interest how much money are we talking about?

Dear Dandelion. Thanks for the advice; the individual in question was a small Letting/Property Management Agent in Cork, who handled a property of mine in Douglas, which was let from 01-09-08. The letting fees were €1250 including VAT which I have no problem with, however the Management fees were €1944 including VAT, for the year’s management so I am looking for the refund from 01-03-09 to 31-10-09. As I will have to engage another Agent to manage the property for the remainder of the Lease that is in place. Thanks Oliver.

olivermac

Thanks to all for the replies. I spoke to his son this morning and was told that because it was not monies in his fathers Client account it was not protected. But that the fees were lodged into his office account and that he was in debit with BOI for €15K wren he died that there is no Office money to refund me. Would this be true. Oliver

DBeckett

olivermac wrote: »

Thanks to all for the replies. I spoke to his son this morning and was told that because it was not monies in his fathers Client account it was not protected. But that the fees were lodged into his office account and that he was in debit with BOI for €15K wren he died that there is no Office money to refund me. Would this be true. Oliver

Olivermac

Hi, in my experience (I run a debt recovery business) this is true. When an estate goes, the debtors are paid off in order of claim. Unfortunately you were late in realising, any monies owed by the estate would be distributed first. Some companies may even have a cadastre (a legal entitlement) for this. For example if he had a house worth 100k, but had not paid for his car loan and the bank had put a cadastre on his house, the house would be sold, and the bank (loaning the mortgage) would be first paid and then the car loan bank then anyone else that had put their name down. If there was anything left, you may have gotten a look in.

Hope this helps

D. Beckett