15 Greedy Men

Langerland

Flicking between the bickering on Q&A and Vincent O'Brien last night when one person made it all very very simple and clear. 15 greedy b%*&tards, who live among us, have have put this huge, barely tolerable debt every single citizen, my children and my children's children.

JerryQ

Yes - and only because Cowen/Lenihan bailed them out. There is no justification for taking on the liabilities of AngloIrish.

future_plans

I don't know if I am being naive, but I think Cowan and Lenihen actually thought they were doing the right thing for Ireland and generally mean well. They are just not equipped for this. The bankers saw them coming a mile off, spun them some disaster story and used them to bail themselves out.

JerryQ

So rather than criminally corrupt, you believe they, and all their advisers in the Department of finance, are incompetent?

The Insider

What were they meant to do let it go to the wall?

CiaranC

Why not?

,8,1

Don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting extremely bored with the whole banking debacle.

Suffice to say there's a lot of corruption and the banking system operates in a cryptic manner. I really don't need to know all the minutae.

JerryQ

you do need to know about it - as you'll be paying for it unless you plan on emigrating. The Anglo bailout is going to cost every worker in this country at least 25,000 euro - and if we take the public sector out - it more like 40K for every private sector worker.

The Insider

CiaranC wrote: »

Why not?

The Anglo Irish employees for one (the ordinarily joe soaps who would have been thrown on the dole queue not the execs)

The tens of thousands of people who have deposits etc within the bank.

The knock on effect it would have had on the Irish banking system and economy at the time.

JerryQ

The depositors were already protected by deposit protection.
You don't take on 50billion+ in liabilities to protect a few hundred jobs.

The only people who would have lost money were institutional investors/interbank.

Banks go belly-up all the time - loads have gone in the US in the last year.

JerryQ

FYI - US banks closed by regulators

http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/banklist.html

future_plans

JerryQ wrote: »

So rather than criminally corrupt, you believe they, and all their advisers in the Department of finance, are incompetent?

I just doubt they would have done this with the benefit of hindsight. The 2 men have integrity and genuinely put the national interest as they saw it first.

The bankers were looking for a quick fix to a problem that really begun with Sean Quinns interest in Anglo. At the end of the day, Quinn fancied a piece of the pie and it went belly up for him. These men are answerable to nobody it seems and sail off into the sunset.

Of course everybody is entitled to an opinion, but people who say who cares how or what happened, lets just fix it are missing the point I think. Something has to be done about what happened. Don't forget we are just a small fish in a very big pond and with all of these wreckless tradings coming to light, and little being done about it, Ireland's already smashed reputation is deflating even further.

is_that_so

Ireland is much too small to have a bank collapse. The intertwined nature of the financial system that has emerged in the last few months meant that letting Anglo go would have pulled the whole thing apart and we'd now be talking to the IMF. It suggests that while the nationalisation of Anglo is extremely unpalatable, the alternative was far worse.

As the joke that was doing the rounds in financial circles went.

What's the difference between Ireland and Iceland? One letter.

I can understand people being angry about it and I am not happy myself but Anglo was not just "greedy bastards", a lot of ordinary people took a punt on it purchasing shares with lump sums and savings. I agree with Michael Soden on this. Remove the bankers at the top, the sooner the better.

Everyone else, greedy or not, is entitled to due process. If any wrongdoing can be proved then those who perpetrated it should be locked up. Baying for blood, while it soothes the anger can sometimes prevent people from thinking through the logic of it. People should also remember that we are part of it with our own (obscene IMO) credit splurge and massive personal debt. Banks are certainly to blame for handing out cash willy-nilly but loans/CC balances are not free and have to be repaid.

JerryQ

The 2 men have integrity and genuinely put the national interest as they saw it first???

Do you honestly believe this?
The same two who take medical cards away from the elderly, who hand billions to the banks but can't find 9million for cancer screening our children, who have presided over the entire fiasco of our bubble boom and bust.

Cowen was having dinner with these guys only weeks before he handed them our money.
He won't name the investors when he's perfectly entitled to.
He handed 600K to the financial regulator to get him to go quietly
Where are the gardai, the fraud squad - why haven't any of these fraudsters and embezzlers been arrested?

The Insider

JerryQ wrote: »

The same two who take medical cards away from the elderly, who hand billions to the banks but can't find 9million for cancer screening our children, who have presided over the entire fiasco of our bubble boom and bust.

Cowen was having dinner with these guys only weeks before he handed them our money.
He won't name the investors when he's perfectly entitled to.
He handed 600K to the financial regulator to get him to go quietly
Where are the gardai, the fraud squad - why haven't any of these fraudsters and embezzlers been arrested?

They are part of the same party that gave the medical cards to the elderly in the first place. If you are talking about the cervical cancer screening the if you actually paid attention to what Harney said at the time you wouldn't be getting your knickers in a twist.

The reason the names have not being brought to the public domain is because the attorney general advised the Government not to do this.

The Insider

JerryQ wrote: »

FYI - US banks closed by regulators

http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/banklist.html

Have you been paying attention to what has happened in the last few months??

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26953481/

CiaranC

The Insider wrote: »

The reason the names have not being brought to the public domain is because the attorney general advised the Government not to do this.

Interesting. Source?

The Insider

CiaranC wrote: »

Interesting. Source?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cowen-still-under-pressure-to-name-golden-circle-1648369.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lawyers-at-odds-over-unmasking-of-anglo-10-1646861.html

But the Irish Independent understands the Attorney General has comprehensively outlined reasons why the names cannot be made public, citing the Central Bank Act 1942.

woodseb

JerryQ wrote: »

Banks go belly-up all the time - loads have gone in the US in the last year.

all small inconsequential banks in terms of the overall economy, look what happened when they let a big bank fail

we've already seen through the scandals how interconnected the banks and big business are in ireland - letting them fail is not sensible

JerryQ

To reply to myself:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0224/anglo.html

Looks like the guards and fraud squad are going in

yoshytoshy

Thats far too little ,far too late. What are they expecting to find ? ,the billions under the carpet:rolleyes:

We're a laughing stock ,the government needs to go.

AlekSmart

the government needs to go.

It appears that the awful reality is sinking in that we do not have a Functioning Government in the generally accepted sense of the term.

Wherever one looks on the Irish Admministrative Stage we have Ministers who plead ignorance cos nobody advised them.
Advisers who say they did`nt advise cos they were never asked.
Civil Servants who say their advice went unheeded cos there were Advisors there to do that therefore making CS advice unnecessary.

And somewhere down at the very bottom is a large body of untreated sewage known as the General Public who are entitled to NOTHING.

At this stage the arrival of the IMF or even Walt Disney Inc to take over the country might be a preferable option to retaining the current sad little cast of incompetents !

bmaxi

JerryQ wrote: »

To reply to myself:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0224/anglo.html

Looks like the guards and fraud squad are going in

They'd be better off getting on to the environment department of all the local councils and asking if any large bonfires have been reported. Also if people have complained about the noise of lump hammers crashing on hard disks. :rolleyes:

Dannyboy83

JerryQ wrote: »

you do need to know about it - as you'll be paying for it unless you plan on emigrating. The Anglo bailout is going to cost every worker in this country at least 25,000 euro - and if we take the public sector out - it more like 40K for every private sector worker.

Your figures are way, way out.

The toxic debt between Anglo and BOI alone stands at 11Billion.

Conservative estimates based on real figures put the debt at somewhere around 4 times that much.
Less conservative estimates put it at 110 Billion

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0217/1224241278003.html?via=mr

Realisitcally, you will be contributing between a third and a half of your life's earnings to pay off this debt, if you stay in this country.

Mr.Micro

JerryQ wrote: »

To reply to myself:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0224/anglo.html

Looks like the guards and fraud squad are going in

Amazing, weeks later the Police act. A joke, talk about telegraphing your intentions. Ah sure we wil give the lads plenty of time to get rid of the evidence and then we will make a show/gesture of it for the public. You could not make it up. What a sham.

jpfahy

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Amazing, weeks later the Police act. A joke, talk about telegraphing your intentions. Ah sure we wil give the lads plenty of time to get rid of the evidence and then we will make a show/gesture of it for the public. You could not make it up. What a sham.

Jaysus that was quick, there's no way Anglo could have had time to shred any incriminating documents, they only had a few MONTHS, LOL, what a joke

We Irish must be the greatest gob****es in the world to put up with this s**t

Langerland

Noel Dempsey was talking about how Garda need evidence before they can charge somebody this evening on the news and that's why it took so long for them to go in.....DESPAIR!! They are only looking for evidence now. Not charging somebody!

jimmycrackcorm

We should start another tribunal to sort out this mess, find blame and take no action. It would be very cheap too - what's €300million compared to billions these days.

PeakOutput

which 15 men is the thread refering to?

is it the so called golden circle or the board of anglo? im confuzzled

Mr.Micro

PeakOutput wrote: »

which 15 men is the thread refering to?

is it the so called golden circle or the board of anglo? im confuzzled

According to the PriceWaterhouseCooper report and the press last weekend 15 customers at the Anglo were each given loans of 500 million Euro or more just before the s..t hid the fan. Not sure if the 15 include some of the 10.

Seth Brundle

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Not sure if the 15 include some of the 10.

Sure how would you know that?
neither groups have been officially named!