Clearing area to plant vegetables

HighWire

Hi there,
Ok complete beginner so if I've got this wrong apologies but we all have to learn
I have a patch at the side of my house where I didnt put grass when we moved in because we planned to plant vegetables.
Didnt happen but we want to do this year.
Problem is some grass seed and weeds got hold of the area and are holding it for ransom.
Is there something that I can get in a garden centre that will kill the whole lot off quickly so I can get digging?

Thanks

bmaxi

Roundup. Just be careful to follow instructions and don't let it drift on to anything you want to keep, as it will kill everything green it touches. Growth is starting to speed up now so it will take a couple of weeks to work, tough perennial weeds may need a second whack.

magicbastarder

you could tack down a tarp to exclude the light, too. preferable to using roundup, if you were planning on going organic.

Sonnenblumen

Roundup is fast, effective and biodegrades on contact with soil.

sorella

We grow through black plastic mulch.

Digging is out for medical reasons and we like our food organic and pure. No chemicals - period

If it kills, it is poison.

The mulch is fine and works well.

FarmerBrown

A product called Basta kills weed and grasses very quickly much safer than the now banned Gramoxone, doesn't kill down to the roots like Roundup though.

HighWire

Hi guys,
I went to my local garden centre and found the Roundup.
On the back of it however it says not to be used on soil
where crops will be grown.
Obviously a little concerned seeing I want to grow veg.
Had a look online and from the Roundup UK site it comes in a green
container, this was a white one.
?????? Now Im really confused.:eek:

starbelgrade

HighWire wrote: »

Hi guys,
I went to my local garden centre and found the Roundup.
On the back of it however it says not to be used on soil
where crops will be grown.
Obviously a little concerned seeing I want to grow veg.
Had a look online and from the Roundup UK site it comes in a green
container, this was a white one.
?????? Now Im really confused.:eek:

Don't use any type of chemicals if you plan to grow vegetables there.

FarmerBrown

Roundup can leave a residue in the soil for a few weeks (months) depending on how heavy a rate was used and the soil type. This can obviously affect any germenation of seeds that are planted within a few weeks of it's application. Shouldn't be a problem if you leave a big enough gap before planting.

Mr. Presentable

Potatoes.
Sow spuds to clear the ground.
Next year sow whatever.

starbelgrade

nipplenuts wrote: »

Potatoes.
Sow spuds to clear the ground.
Next year sow whatever.

Do spuds kill off weeds?

Perennial weeds are best removed by digging & hoeing, but those with persistent rhizomes, such as couch grass, horsetail or bindweed can be troublesome. If digging them out doesn't work, use a glyphosate weedkiller when they are in full growth in the summer.

Annual weeds can easily persist among vegetables in older gardens - not so much a problem in new ones & if you are careful never to let weeds set, you'll avoid a weed problem indefinitely.

sorella

In neglected ground, there will be thousands of dormant seeds, which cultivation will awaken.

So it will take some years of patient weeding to totally clear it.

Many chemicals that were once thought safe are now known not to be; the new ones will probably suffer the same fate.

Because we learn more as time passes.

Weeding takes more time but is more effective and much safer.

That is why we use black plastic mulch.

It smothers all weeds and stops new ones growing. Also the stubborn roots of the ones that are there rise to the surface seeking light and then are very easy to pull up in their entirety, rather then leaving bits of root that will regrow. Couch responds well to this, as do nettles.

Potatoes will break up soil wonderfully but not kill weeds. We grow those under mulch also.

As some here say, never use chemical where you will grow food.

But your choice of course..

HighWire

Thanks guys.
So The way I see it is this either
1) Use roundup, dont grow any veggies until next year and if anything does grow keep it out.

2) Out with the fork and hoe and start digging.

Actually think it might be number 2 cause my neighbour has already
put down some veggies, so thinking that the roundup would kill off
them too.

Thanks

mikom

Load of twaddle being talked in this thread to be honest.

sorella wrote: »

If it kills, it is poison.

Boiling water kills, is it poison? Vinegar kills, is it poison?

sorella wrote: »

Digging is out for medical reasons and we like our food organic and pure. No chemicals - period

Then...

sorella wrote: »

We grow through black plastic mulch.

:rolleyes:

starbelgrade wrote:

Don't use any type of chemicals if you plan to grow vegetables there.

Time to get on the bat phone to all the farmers so, must tell them this news. Enjoy the price of potatoes going through the roof due to a blight driven shortage.
But, but, we can spray for blight with bluestone like in the old days.Its allowed under organic rules right? Of course you can, but beware it is a "chemical"

nipplenuts wrote:

Sow spuds to clear the ground. Next year sow whatever.

You forgot to mention apart from spuds again.

HighWire

mikom wrote: »

Load of twaddle being talked in this thread to be honest.

So what would you suggested then?

sorella

Probably nothing; begins with "t" and ends with "l"..

HighWire wrote: »

So what would you suggested then?

Sonnenblumen

For those conscientious objectors against the use of chemicals etc fair enough, that is your personal choice etc and that's dandy. However we must also be accurate in any criticism of alternative methods, ie use of chemicals such as Roundup. As I've already stated Roundup is very effective weedkiller which also biodegrades on contact with soil, this takes some time and can vary but usually the area is safe for re-planting after 8 weeks Not 1 year , 8 weeks!! If you have any doubts you can wait!

There's no twaddle, but using boiling to kill weeds in a veg bed is nothing but twaddle. The traditional methods to kill weeds involves digging the area several times. Fine go and dig. Another post-digging method involves covering area (with dark plastic/carpet/lino/sheeting, anything that can block sunlight essentially) to effectively kill all exisiting growth. This method however may not kill all exisiting root and is ineffective in preventing any germination of dormant or new weed seed. Traditional methods require lots of elbow grease with ongoing care and attention to eradicate weeds.

Choice of Methodolgy will be a matter of conscience or personal preference but with no clear outright winners!

mikom

sorella wrote: »

Probably nothing; begins with "t" and ends with "l"..

Thallium? :P

Sonnenblumen wrote:

There's no twaddle, but using boiling to kill weeds in a veg bed is nothing but twaddle.

you meant boiling water in relation to my last post right? Read my post again, I never advised to use boiling water to kill weeds in veg beds. I simply mentioned it as it is often touted by new-age gardeners as a weed Killer instead of chemicals, even though itself is a bunch of chemicals.

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Another post-digging method involves covering area (with dark plastic/carpet/lino/sheeting, anything that can block sunlight essentially) to effectively kill all exisiting growth.

Using clear plastic is much more effective, but there ya go.

The Waxbill

Interesting thread, this year is going to be my first time growing veg too and I'm reuctant to use chemicals to clear the ground. Anyone know where I can buy the black plastic to cover the ground to kill off weeds?

starbelgrade

The Waxbill wrote: »

Interesting thread, this year is going to be my first time growing veg too and I'm reuctant to use chemicals to clear the ground. Anyone know where I can buy the black plastic to cover the ground to kill off weeds?

Any builders providers or garden centre should have some.

Sonnenblumen

mikom wrote: »

Thallium? :P




you meant boiling water in relation to my last post right? Read my post again, I never advised to use boiling water to kill weeds in veg beds. I simply mentioned it as it is often touted by new-age gardeners as a weed Killer instead of chemicals, even though itself is a bunch of chemicals.



Using clear plastic is much more effective, but there ya go.

interesting and curious to know how?

mikom

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

interesting and curious to know how?

http://www.weekendgardener.net/organic-weed-killer/solarization-100710.htm

sorella

We get a sileage COVER, not the wrapping stuff, which is thin and flimsy, from a Creamery.

Many yards and very sturdy.

Works out cheaper than other places.

Also makes slug collection easier as they creep under the edges to sleep in the day and are easily picked off then.

Used this for many years.

uzs

The Waxbill wrote: »

Interesting thread, this year is going to be my first time growing veg too and I'm reuctant to use chemicals to clear the ground. Anyone know where I can buy the black plastic to cover the ground to kill off weeds?

The Waxbill

Thanks Sorella, I'll try the Co-Op and see if they have it.

stifz

Hi All,

Im about to get an area rotivated over the weekend for growing veg - lazy i know!! I placed a large cover over the area a few weeks ago and it killed off the grass and weeds. Really easy and effective.. Round up is serious stuff for killing weeds. Id be of the thought to keep it away from a veg garden..

If anyone could answer this for me i sure it'll be one of the next questions the op maybe interested in.. I have plastic covering and have access horse manure / straw etc. Would it be wise to mix it through the soil and then cover..

And my last question.. If im planting seeds / bulbs do i plant into the soil away from the plastic and then when the grow bigger transplant into the plastic covered area?

sorella

Manure can contain grass and weed seeds.. Been there..... You can make liquid feed from it by steeping it in water. As you can with nettles also; the smell is incredible though:)

Just cut slits to plant out. Seems odd at first until you get used to the idea.

stifz

thanks sorella! So no to the manure then.. And im still unsure a little about planting in the plastic with seeds / bulbs. Just cut a slice into the plastic and thats it? Or plant seeds in soil and wait for flower / leaf and then transplant?

sorry new to all this!

Sonnenblumen

stifz wrote: »

Hi All,

Im about to get an area rotivated over the weekend for growing veg - lazy i know!! I placed a large cover over the area a few weeks ago and it killed off the grass and weeds. Really easy and effective.. Round up is serious stuff for killing weeds. Id be of the thought to keep it away from a veg garden..

If anyone could answer this for me i sure it'll be one of the next questions the op maybe interested in.. I have plastic covering and have access horse manure / straw etc. Would it be wise to mix it through the soil and then cover..

And my last question.. If im planting seeds / bulbs do i plant into the soil away from the plastic and then when the grow bigger transplant into the plastic covered area?

Bulbs ability to naturalise/spread will be severely curtailed under plastic!

r3nu4l

sorella wrote: »

Many chemicals that were once thought safe are now known not to be; the new ones will probably suffer the same fate.

Because we learn more as time passes.

I'd just like to clarify this. All chemicals developed today must undergo rigourous safety testing to ensure they are not harmful to humans. That said, even the most rigourous tests won't detect every dangerous chemical, especially if the effect is something that only tells 20-30 years down the line.

There are over 10,000 chemicals still in use today that have NEVER been tested for safety, many are used in plastics, household furnishings, preparation of fabrics etc and it's only over time that we have weeded out (pun alert!) the worst of these. In the past chemicals were developed and put into use straight away.

The EU is currently testing as many of these untested chemicals as possible and as a result many have been banned and many more will be. There is no doubt that some of the new chemicals in development will be approved and we will discover in years to come that they were harmful but these will be few and far between compared with the past.

As for all the talk of killing off weeds, well 2 years ago we dug our plots, manured them, planted our veg and grew them. We weeded by hand at least once a week and the beds remained relatively weed free this way.

That way we have been totally organic feeding the plants with water and nothing else. The exception to this is our tomatoes which we feed with tomato feed. We've had excellent crops in the past 2 years, including cucumbers, tomatoes, potatoes, beetroot, peas, strawberries, rhubarb, chillies and more.

If your plots aren't huge then with a bit of effort, weeding by hand can give you excellent results.

sorella

No apologies, please.

There are some good garden forums around also.

see...

http://www.kitchengarden.co.uk/forum/

The liquid feed works well and keeps the weed seeds out. As long as you know that there may be weeds in it, that is fine.

Perennials as someone has posted, need space to spread, so are best in an un-plastic area; we have lupin grown from seed last year and they wil go in borders and will smother/crowd out all else.

Yes, plant in trays etc as normal ,then transplant when they are big enough and frost danger is over.. after hardening off.

If you can get cardboard or old newspapers, lay this under the plastic.

See

http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/envirohort/426-326/426-326.html

We once had a poly- tunnel on a rough field; the perosn who put it up advised layers of cardboard, straw - no hay as that is full of seeds - and manure, and not to dig.

We laid black plastic over it all. and all rotted down well then.

The best crops of potatoes ever were under black plastic. Simply set out in a small hollow in rows, wait for the haulm to grow and push up against the plastic, then make a hole to let them up. "Earth up" with newspaper or dry grass etc.

I saw a garden the other day with fine crops of cabbages etc through black plastic.

stifz wrote: »

thanks sorella! So no to the manure then.. And im still unsure a little about planting in the plastic with seeds / bulbs. Just cut a slice into the plastic and thats it? Or plant seeds in soil and wait for flower / leaf and then transplant?

sorry new to all this!

Aeneas

HighWire wrote: »

Hi there,
Ok complete beginner so if I've got this wrong apologies but we all have to learn
I have a patch at the side of my house where I didnt put grass when we moved in because we planned to plant vegetables.
Didnt happen but we want to do this year.
Problem is some grass seed and weeds got hold of the area and are holding it for ransom.
Is there something that I can get in a garden centre that will kill the whole lot off quickly so I can get digging?

Thanks

You don't say how large your area is but if it is manageable I would suggest you dig it over, removing stones, debris and weeds as you go. I have done this myself on 1/3 acre site and a thorough dig really cleans the area. The initial dig is hard and time consuming but after that weeding and maintenance are relatively easy. I personally have no objection to using Roundup or similar weedkillers but I think a full dig is desirable to thoroughly clean an area. When you have dug it over add plenty of organic material - home made compost, manure, peat, bought in compost etc. If you plan to grow vegetables I think the best approach is raised beds - each one 4 ft by say 8 or 10 ft.(there is plenty of advice on earlier posts). Put a membrane on the paths between the beds and cover with gravel. If you do this you will never need to dig the area again. Simply keep your beds weed free, add compost at the beginning of winter, fork over in spring and sow your seeds in March.