If Arsenal finish outside top 4...

Frisbee

deise59 wrote: »

and either Fabregas or Adebayor leave in the summer,

Fabregas won't leave this summer.
Not after just making captain and being injured for such a large portion of the season.
In two years when Barca need to start thinking about replacing a certain Mr. Hernandez he'll leave.

L'prof

deise59 wrote: »

Apologies for going off topic.

Personally, I think if Arsenal don't reach the CL, and either Fabregas or Adebayor leave in the summer, that could spell the end for Wenger. Even as a United fan though, I hope I'm wrong. A great manager like Arsene doesn't deserve to leave in those kind of circumstances.

Adebayor??? Not half as important as other Arsenal players and nowhere near as important as Fabregas in my opinion and if we got good money for him, I'd be glad to see him go!

therecklessone

invincibleirish wrote: »

To paraphrase David Cameron; Spurs: you were the future once. Whats your take on it recklessone? will Villa do a Spurs on it and blow our chances?

I think you have a better manager and a more level-headed owner/moneyman so I believe you have the makings of a consistent challenge for the CL spots (or maybe even more) but a lot depends on how you spend in the coming Summer.

And back on topic...

Arsenal have been horrendously unlucky with injuries this season, anyone who thinks that now is the time to dump Wenger needs their head examined IMHO. He is under more pressure now than at any time in his career, and despite what people think I don't believe the cash is there to splash in the first place, what with the debts associated with the Emirates.

That said there are a few bad eggs at the club, and if he can secure in excess of £10m for Adebayor and a few quid for Gallas I'd recommend selling, then reinvesting that in the side.

destroyer

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Do you honestly not see a difference between how Arsenal has existed in the last few years and how Chelsea/Liverpool/United have?

I do, but I think to a certain extent the manager has been hiding
behind it. Its a great excuse when you do badly.
Supporters wont wait forever for the "future" to arrive.
You said yourself you are happy as long as progress is being made
but is it , to me they seem to be going backwards.
Only one team can win the league but to be realistically out of
it in feb. must be disappointing.

invincibleirish

Frisbee wrote: »

Fabregas won't leave this summer.
Not after just making captain..

Thats what we thought about Gareth Barry:o



Gallas & Adebayor to me as an outsider strike me as guys whose negative ifluence outweights any positives they bring to Arsenal.

Frisbee

invincibleirish wrote: »

Thats what we thought about Gareth Barry:o

I dont really know much about Barry's personality etc so this isnt a dig at him in any way. But Fabregas is a fairly stand up guy with a decent head on his shoulders. I'd almost say he feels he'll owe the fans a top class full season or two more before he leaves.
Once again I'm not saying Barry is a douchebag or he's the things Fab isn't, this is purely a comment on Fab.

invincibleirish wrote: »

Gallas & Adebayor to me as an outsider strike me as guys whose negative ifluence outweights any positives they bring to Arsenal.

I'd be more than happy to have Gallas at the club next year.
However if we get a 15+ million offer for Ade we should take it unless he expresses a serious desire to stay.

tred

destroyer wrote: »

Wenger lost it about 3 years ago IMO.
All we hear about is how the future is great, young kids, next season etc
etc. He is too stubborn to spend money even if he had it because he
believes the hype about himself and how he is this genius who will
"discover" rough gems and turn them into the best players on the planet.
Never thought i'd say this but i actually feel a bit sorry for gunner fans
at the moment. You will never win another trophy of substance under
Wenger end of story.
Also not spending money gives him the excuse for failure which he
is looking for every season now. It's part of the whole self delusional
aura around him now like never seeing his own players indiscretions
or thinking his team were unlucky when in fact they have been
outplayed. Time to bite the bullet Gunners and send Wenger packing.

this drives me nuts. Wenger is not spendning money. Add up the transfer fees for Rosiky/Arshavin/Walcott/sangya/Eduardo/Reyes/Henry/Gallas/Wiltord/Ramsey
He has spent money. Liverpool miss gerrard for a game or 2 and fall assunder. Were missing 1/2 a team and people still keep moaning on. Its going be really hard to catch Aston Villa. They probably have to play the top 3 yet, and I wouldnt be surprised they loose them all. our defense recently looks much more solid than before xmas. Gallas is getting back to himself. We just need a break in luck, and those chances that are hitting the post to go in. I agree with one of the posters here, were arguably short 1 world class central midfielder, but there hard to come by. this is not a fantasy football. You cant just go out and buy players all over the shop when u have injuries to players like diaby who are coming back. Id like to see him get a run of about ten games and then well see whats hes up too if he can stay un injured.

yahoo_moe

invincibleirish wrote: »

Gallas & Adebayor to me as an outsider strike me as guys whose negative ifluence outweights any positives they bring to Arsenal.

Whatever about Gallas (I don't think any of us know what the story really is but I still think he's a class defender so I personally would rather keep him) I think people bandy around this Adebayor thing a bit too loosely... he's been a bit lazy recently but generally, he's fought very hard for the team during his time at Arsenal. Actually I think Henry leaving at the time he did ensured that Ade didn't become too cliquey and as far as I'm concerned, I don't see any evidence of him being a disruptive influence.

Even the disagreement with Bendtner was pretty handbaggy in fairness.

And again I'll say that Toure handed in a transfer request when it seemed like a nouveau riche club were into him whereas Gallas has got his head down and put in some super performances.

wardie

jasonorr wrote: »

Adebayor??? Not half as important as other Arsenal players and nowhere near as important as Fabregas in my opinion and if we got good money for him, I'd be glad to see him go!

I agree. Let Ade go and as he he signed his contract extension we should get some decent money for him.

Van Pierse with only 12 months left on his contract is another matter and we need to keep him

yahoo_moe

tred wrote: »

Add up the transfer fees for Rosiky/Arshavin/Walcott/sangya/Eduardo/Reyes/Henry/Gallas/Wiltord/Ramsey
He has spent money.

It's about net spend though - Wenger has sold to finance most of those purchases. And Gallas was -£5m

were arguably short 1 world class central midfielder, but there hard to come by. this is not a fantasy football. You cant just go out and buy players all over the shop

Couldn't agree more with this though. I firmly believe that if Wenger saw a quality CM, he'd jump at the chance to try and get him on board - hell, we got Diarra and then he went and left. And even after all the talk about Veloso, it turns out he's been dropped by Sporting Lisbon - these players are hard to find.

Tristram

Why did Arsenal let Flamini go? He looked like someone who could a great job for them in midfield.

Mitch Connor

How could Gallas be minus 5million? You weren't paid 5million to take him. At best he'd be considered a free, but then you would have to say Arsenal under sold Cole at 5million.

In reality, i would put his fee at whatever you think the value of cole was, minus 5 million.

Mitch Connor

Tristram wrote: »

Why did Arsenal let Flamini go? He looked like someone who could a great job for them in midfield.

His contract was up, and he didn't sign a new one.

Frisbee

I'd love the Flamster back, it would be amazing....

Tristram

Mitch Connor wrote: »

His contract was up, and he didn't sign a new one.

Arsenal wouldn't meet his terms? Don't think he starts with Milan, odd move.

Frisbee

Tristram wrote: »

Arsenal wouldn't meet his terms? Don't think he starts with Milan, odd move.

He gets paid more though which probably suits him.
Plus I think the idea was to groom him as Gattuso's replacement.
Although that doesnt seem to be happening in Italy for him, so if we could get him back at a nominal fee I'd like us to take him back.

invincibleirish

offer Milan Adebayor in exchange for flamini anyone?

L'prof

invincibleirish wrote: »

offer Milan Adebayor in exchange for flamini anyone?

Maybe, if they were willing to give us some cash too!

yahoo_moe

Mitch Connor wrote: »

How could Gallas be minus 5million?

Chill - you know what the smiley faces mean around here right?

My point was that nobody can cite Gallas as a big-money buy (as someone did) because the deal was a cash plus player swap.

Evil_Clown

invincibleirish wrote: »

offer Milan Adebayor in exchange for flamini anyone?

From a Business point of view it probably wouldn't be a brilliant move as Strikers generally cost more than Midfielders but as a fan I would swap Adebayor for Flamini in a heartbeat

LuckyLloyd

destroyer wrote: »

You will never win another trophy of substance under Wenger end of story.

lol, football fans.

ditpoker

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

lol, football fans.

this is the most apt post in this thread.

any arsenal fan calling for wenger's head has, in my opinion, a very misguided and dangerously short term footballing mind. Its this sort of "success now, or else" mentality that has lead to things like managers getting the sack after 4 months. I would, as a spurs fan, give anything for ONE manager to be at the helm for a period of 5+ years!

jesus_thats_gre

Arsenal not getting into the CL next season would be a disaster but not the end of the world and they could recover from it.

Arsenal not getting into the CL next season and sacking Wenger would be a complete tragedy and could leave the club in major trouble. I would be genuinely worried that he they would suffer for a significant period of time.

If they do miss out on qualification but keep Wenger, I am guessing that they might have to sell 1 or 2 high profile players to make up for the financial shortfall. Adebayor is the stand out name and I really don't think that they would miss him too much - I really dislike him for some reason that I am yet to put my finger on.

An interesting outcome of Arsenal missing out on the the CL would be their participation in the UEFA Cup. They would obviously be one of the big favourites to win the trophy and doing so would go along way for making up for the financial shortfall associated with missing out on the CL. Winning the UEFA Cup is still a stand out moment for me as a Liverpool fan and I genuinely attribute a massive portion our consistency in the the CL to that win.


Saying all that, I still maintain that Arsenal still have more than enough quality to catch Aston Villa before the the end of the season if they build on their recent solid performance. I also believe that they will could be the determining factor in who may end up with the league title.

jesus_thats_gre

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

lol, football fans.

It really is astonishing...

destroyer

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

lol, football fans.

Only time will tell but i am absolutely convinced i'm right on
this one.
Wenger has lost something from his first 8/9 years at Arsenal
its confidence or sheer bloody mindness or "i want this more
than you do"
I think he's been worn down by Ferguson and is now
willing to settle for accolades like "beautiful football" or
"team built on a shoestring" or "the future looks great"
which is great news for MON and David Moyes two of
the most determined and ruthless men in the league.

LuckyLloyd

destroyer wrote: »

I think he's been worn down by Ferguson

lol

2003 - 04:

PL Champions, unbeaten all season as part of a run of 49 games without defeat

February 2004:

They start building this:



2004 - 05:

They beat Utd in the F.A. Cup final:



2004 - 2006:

The PL has a lot of this guy crushing:



yet Arsenal still go close in the Champions League:



Not a whole lot of Fergie there huh? But now what happens? Oh yeah, remember this:



Damn expensive business, is the building of stadiums. Which means not a whole lot of this:



which is a problem when these guys get past their best and need to be replaced:

Worn down by Ferguson

FAIL

Frisbee

Lloyd....

jesus_thats_gre

Introduce basic maths into the Liverpool thread and the soccer forum will be catering for 8 to 12 year olds

Headshot

great post LuckyLloyd

destroyer

beautiful post lloyd excellent extravagant creative easy on the eye
but without much substance just like...

but as i say time will tell...

the last year you mentioned was 2006...... hmmm

LuckyLloyd

destroyer wrote: »

the last year you mentioned was 2006...... hmmm

Indeed. Which means that at the end of this year, Arsenal will have gone three years without seriously challenging for a major trophy.

Should Utd have jettisoned Ferguson at some point between 2003 and 2006?

Frisbee

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Indeed. Which means that at the end of this year, Arsenal will have gone three years without seriously challenging for a major trophy.

Should Utd have jettisoned Ferguson at some point between 2003 and 2006?

Very serious challenge up until that day in St. Andrews last year... *shudders*
And we still only finished 4 points off the top.

LuckyLloyd

Frisbee wrote: »

Very serious challenge up until that day in St. Andrews last year... *shudders*
And we still only finished 4 points off the top.

Cool, I stand corrected!!

Even less of a reason to sack the man. Arsenal should be glad he hasn't walked - not looking to send him walking. But what do I know...

yahoo_moe

ditpoker wrote: »

any arsenal fan calling for wenger's head has, in my opinion, a very misguided and dangerously short term footballing mind.

See that's the thing - it seems to be mainly non-Arsenal fans that drag this up. There were a few people crept out of the woodwork and into the Arsenal thread around the end of January lambasting Wenger but from the Arsenal fans I hear from, here and in the real world , nobody wants Wenger to leave.

Like ever.

Bounty Hunter

Maybe Wenger isnt on his game who knows but what i do know is he would walk into The Real Madrid job should he want it, and will probably be asked if he wants the french job everytime it becomes available for the next decade.

Pepe LeFrits

Wenger doesn't walk out on contracts. He won't leave before 2011 unless he's sacked, and I can't see him being sacked because he's the golden goose.

However, I think this summer he will find himself under intense pressure to compromise his principles and be a bit more practical. The acquisition of Arshavin hints that he may be willing to do that now. This summer he will have to fight a hell of a lot harder to keep his players... his willingness to let players go if they don't want to stay has hurt us has badly in recent years - Diarra etc.

tred

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Wenger doesn't walk out on contracts. He won't leave before 2011 unless he's sacked, and I can't see him being sacked because he's the golden goose.

However, I think this summer he will find himself under intense pressure to compromise his principles and be a bit more practical. The acquisition of Arshavin hints that he may be willing to do that now. This summer he will have to fight a hell of a lot harder to keep his players... his willingness to let players go if they don't want to stay has hurt us has badly in recent years - Diarra etc.

you can see from tonight why he rates diaby so highly. if he just didnt have tin legs. lets hope its minor and precautionary. As for Nasri, wengers big buy over the summer...WOW. man this guy tracked back and worked hard and created chances. my man of match anway. sorry..should have bought this up on the match thread!
As for wenger going...nonsense.