European super-league proposal is back

SectionF

I see that Milan are making noises about resurrecting the European league. What do people here think?

My view on this is that it is going to take the game even further away from domestic leagues, and intensify the process whereby one hugely rich league sucks the lifeblood out of everyone else.

There's a thread running elsewhere asking what will happen to Arsenal if they don't make fourth in the EPL. Well, one thing that might happen them is that they might not make the European Premier League elite, and be locked out forever. Same applies to anyone other club in Europe on the margins.

Probably wouldn't affect LoI clubs one bit, since the damage is long done here, but I'd still be against it in principle.

mike65

Any league without promotion/relagation is pointless.

Eirebear

mike65 wrote: »

Any league without promotion/relagation is pointless.

I have to agree with that, there would have to be some system put in place, possibly like the English "pyramid" where teams not performing drop out and make way for another.

_blank_

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

Eirebear wrote: »

I have to agree with that, there would have to be some system put in place, possibly like the English "pyramid" where teams not performing drop out and make way for another.

But then you'd have one "rich league" taking over the whole of the elite league.

For instance, at this point of the cycle, the EPL is the richest league in the world, and if Arsenal so-wished, they could probably outspend the majority of other european clubs, and knock someone like Fiorentina out of the elite league, leaving the "original 4" EPL teams, plus Arsenal, but only 3 Italian teams.

Basically, what you'd get is a "European League" comprised of the "G18" or whatever you want to call it.

Not an impossibility, but it would leave the "left behind" nothing worth playing for.

Do you keep it static? You'd have teams just happy to have gotten there, finish bottom every season, but the owners creaming off the money.

No room for Scottish teams here either I'm afraid, no matter how highly you convince yourselves you are seen.

invincibleirish

Milan are just bitter at the money in the PL nowadays. Now that their sugar daddy has long given up on the idea of funding them out of his own wallet. Of course the 7 sisters were always against the idea of TV deals being negotiated collectively, instead happy to reap the profits from solo deals. but their greed means the disparity between top and bottom of Serie A is a lot greater then the PL.

Highsider

No: It will favour super-rich elite clubs at the expense of domestic leagues

Long overdue imo.

Quint

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

If they ever go through with this European Super League it'll be a very sad day for football.

Iang87

Why are Milan making noise. Is it possibly due to their no Champs League funding this year hmmmmmmm

_blank_

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

Highsider wrote: »

Long overdue imo.

Good post, but what are the benefits of this?

ziggy

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

This post has been deleted.

Quint

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

Iang87 wrote: »

Why are Milan making noise. Is it possibly due to their no Champs League funding this year hmmmmmmm

Good point. For a while it was looking like they'd miss out again. I love when a big team doesn't make it, i'd love to see arsenal not make it this year. They jammed it a few times now, hopefully villa can keep getting results

invincibleirish

Des wrote: »

Good post, but what are the benefits of this?

Eirebear

Des wrote: »

But then you'd have one "rich league" taking over the whole of the elite league.

For instance, at this point of the cycle, the EPL is the richest league in the world, and if Arsenal so-wished, they could probably outspend the majority of other european clubs, and knock someone like Fiorentina out of the elite league, leaving the "original 4" EPL teams, plus Arsenal, but only 3 Italian teams.

Basically, what you'd get is a "European League" comprised of the "G18" or whatever you want to call it.

Not an impossibility, but it would leave the "left behind" nothing worth playing for.

Do you keep it static? You'd have teams just happy to have gotten there, finish bottom every season, but the owners creaming off the money.

No room for Scottish teams here either I'm afraid, no matter how highly you convince yourselves you are seen.

I see where your coming from, but it any different from the general structure of football nowadays?
In every country where football is played the "rich" clubs are all in the top flight, while the poorer clubs battle it out for an opportunity to join them.

Keeping it static would kill off every club other than those challenging for the title every year.

_blank_

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

Eirebear wrote: »

I see where your coming from, but it any different from the general structure of football nowadays?

Yes, it's radically different.

Eirebear wrote: »

In every country where football is played the "rich" clubs are all in the top flight, while the poorer clubs battle it out for an opportunity to join them.

Europe is not a country though.

How do we decide which teams get "promoted" to the Super League?

Do we have SL1, SL2, SL3?

How far down do you go, and say we have three tiers, how do we decide which teams play in them?

How do we decide which teams get to get promoted to SL3?

No matter what level you bring it to, you either render national domestic leagues meaningless, or else you hit the poorer nations who can't afford to compete.

Eirebear wrote: »

Keeping it static would kill off every club other than those challenging for the title every year.

I agree with this, I wasn't seriously suggesting it, I think it's a horrible idea.

redout

I would rather a European league over the champions league in the sense that it would give us all a clear indication of just exactly how good the top sides really are as the Champions league does not tell us much. Just because a team wins it does not necessarily mean they were the best side whereas with an actual league it would. I would rather watch United play the likes of Bayern, Juve, AC Milan, Real Madrid every week as opposed to Hull, WBA, Spurs etc. Teams obviously to get relegated down to a lower division with the likes of Rangers, PSV etc. and others given the opportunity to be promoted. I guarantee this would make a tonne more money than the clubs do from domestic leagues and champions leagues. The tv deals alone would be through the roof, advertising, sponsorship, PPV etc. At the end of the day the clubs want more money and this would be a logical step.

_blank_

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

redout wrote: »

others given the opportunity to be promoted.

Please.

Explain this process to me.

Becasue I can't fathom it out.

How do you pick from the Champions of the left over national divisions?

If the "top 4" from England, Spain, Germany, Italy, plus random other teams from France, Holland, Greece. Not to mention the Eastern European giants, like CSKA Moscow etc.

When these are all off playing in their ESL, are the domestic leagues continuing as normal?

What happens to the champions of these various divisions?

Now...what happens if one certain country's teams start to dominate, and eventually you get the likes of Villa, Spurs, Newcastle, Blackburn all competing in either Tier1 or Tier2 of the ESL.

How do teams from other countries get a chance?

What happens if a country like France loses all it's representatives?

Come on, all you proponents of this new league.

Step up and explain it to me.

Please.

Iang87

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

theres a smell of EPL v LoI of that post hopefully it wont go that route. Also European super league not a good idea it'll just be a league of giants that can never be touched and in turn it'll turn into a group of 6 who keep winning. Has anyone mentioned the added expenses on fans with flights. All those Ryanair flights do add up

_blank_

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

Iang87 wrote: »

Has anyone mentioned the added expenses on fans with flights.

lol, of course not.

It isn't an issue for the vast majority of posters on this site.

A flight to Manchester once or twice a year, it will stay as is.

Feck the actual fans from the actual cities who go home and away all over England.

Who cares about them plebs.

invincibleirish

Des you clearly have little faith in UEFA, the Pay TV men and their marketing folk in coming up with a format that will keep all the relevant parties* happy.

*not including fans. Surely the LoI militants will be supportive of an ESL anyway, when the daytrippers can't afford to head to Moscow or Milan for that crucial league game they'll head down to their local LoI stadia and witness the action in the flesh right?

Eirebear

Des wrote: »

Yes, it's radically different.



Europe is not a country though.

How do we decide which teams get "promoted" to the Super League?

Do we have SL1, SL2, SL3?

How far down do you go, and say we have three tiers, how do we decide which teams play in them?

How do we decide which teams get to get promoted to SL3?

No matter what level you bring it to, you either render national domestic leagues meaningless, or else you hit the poorer nations who can't afford to compete.

No, europe isnt a country i understand that point.

But on the same token, its the same idea on a much larger scale. Teams work there way up the tables if they can and if they do they get rewarded with a place in the top leagues.

I have long been a fan of the English system where it is possible for just about any club team in the country to make their way up from the blue square, doc martins, unibond, whatever its called these days leagues and one day become a Premiership team, and from there a Champions league team.

It may seem a ridiculous idea that it would happen, but not beyond the realms of possibility.

There is still something to celebrate for teams who win the Championship (and whatever the hell else theyve named their lower divisions) in England right now is there not?
A big part of that is the hope, and dreams that it gives fans...even if it is just for one season.

Another major part of English football's coninued success is the payments given to teams relegated from the premiership. it has injected a huge amount of cash into the lower divisions and kept the championship compettitive.

The same principals can be brought into play for a Super League IMO.

Des wrote: »

I agree with this, I wasn't seriously suggesting it, I think it's a horrible idea.

Depends how you look at it really........;)

_blank_

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

Eirebear wrote: »

The same principals can be brought into play for a Super League IMO.

Again.

Explain how?

Once you get to the "bottom tier" of the ESL, where do you go?

How do you propose it works?

It can't work the same way as England, because the geographical spread is just way too big.

Do we get Tier 14 ESL games between some provincial backwater team from Macedonia vs Sligo Rovers?

therecklessone

Here's how see things panning out in the short to medium term:

1. Collective bargaining for TV rights in the PL will eventually fall apart. This will be brought about by the influx of foreign capital into the English game, and the squeeze that current economic pressures are putting on matchday revenue, particularly revenue from corporate sources. Eventually the Glazers and the Gillet/Hicks of the English game will start to wonder why they are subsidising Wigan and Boro, when their own clubs could be securing 2x and 3x the yearly TV money they currently get by negotiating individual TV deals. Broadcasters will feed this by chasing the big deals, because the big draws like United and Liverpool mean big advertising. The clubs just below the current "big 4" who are intent on expanding their revenue base like City, Spurs, Newcastle, Everton, Villa etc will acquiesce, for they will see crumbs falling their way that the likes of Bolton, Wigan, Boro, Blackburn and others will not...basically any club that has reach outside of their immediate catchment area will fall in line.

2. UEFA will attempt to put manners on the European elite, but will in fact push them closer to this Superleague by seeking to restrict club spending on wages, transfer fees and the like. The money men will decide they can't be arsed with restricting their spending when they know that increased spending can result in increased turnover as they sell more Ronaldo 7 merchandise.

3. A Superleague will be born, initially it will be proposed as an alternative to the current CL but the logic of it's formation and development will eventually arrive at a competition which is seen as superior to national leagues, and eventually the clubs involved will pull out of domestic competition to concentrate on the ESL. TV and advertising revenue will flood into the new compeition, starving domestic leagues of investment. Fans will probably still go to games, but the real revenue streams that keep the mid to lower tables afloat will disappear, and so the possibility of a club rising from domestic competition to knock on the ESL door will be minute.

4. The ESL will function on a franchise basis, it will not be based on sporting merit, rather on ability to attract customers (not fans, because fans don't necessarily spend the kind of money needed) and increase the brand name of the SL. Clubs will be invited to compete, from the PL I'd expect United, Liverpool and Arsenal, though Chelsea appear to have succeeded in increasing turnover considerably, so they may get a look in. They'd be joined by Juventus, Inter, Milan, Barca, Real, Bayern, Lyon, one or two from Eastern Europe perhaps...any others?

5. Bums on seats will not matter, unless it's bums on leather seats with a 3 course meal and a cash bar. Atmosphere can be generated, away travel will be a thing of the distant past.

Think that sums it all up..:(

Eirebear

Des wrote: »

Again.

Explain how?

Once you get to the "bottom tier" of the ESL, where do you go?

How do you propose it works?

It can't work the same way as England, because the geographical spread is just way too big.

Do we get Tier 14 ESL games between some provincial backwater team from Macedonia vs Sligo Rovers?

I would suggest a 2 tier ESL system, with the rest, divided into geographical areas.
As in England you have North and South Divisions, this time it would simply be the Domestic league of that country.

I understand there are flaws in that idea in terms of numbers of clubs etc, but i am not payed to work these things out.

_blank_

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

Great post.

It will, simply, kill football as we know it.

Eirebear

therecklessone wrote: »

Here's how see things panning out in the short to medium term:

1. Collective bargaining for TV rights in the PL will eventually fall apart. This will be brought about by the influx of foreign capital into the English game, and the squeeze that current economic pressures are putting on matchday revenue, particularly revenue from corporate sources. Eventually the Glazers and the Gillet/Hicks of the English game will start to wonder why they are subsidising Wigan and Boro, when their own clubs could be securing 2x and 3x the yearly TV money they currently get by negotiating individual TV deals. Broadcasters will feed this by chasing the big deals, because the big draws like United and Liverpool mean big advertising. The clubs just below the current "big 4" who are intent on expanding their revenue base like City, Spurs, Newcastle, Everton, Villa etc will acquiesce, for they will see crumbs falling their way that the likes of Bolton, Wigan, Boro, Blackburn and others will not...basically any club that has reach outside of their immediate catchment area will fall in line.

2. UEFA will attempt to put manners on the European elite, but will in fact push them closer to this Superleague by seeking to restrict club spending on wages, transfer fees and the like. The money men will decide they can't be arsed with restricting their spending when they know that increased spending can result in increased turnover as they sell more Ronaldo 7 merchandise.

3. A Superleague will be born, initially it will be proposed as an alternative to the current CL but the logic of it's formation and development will eventually arrive at a competition which is seen as superior to national leagues, and eventually the clubs involved will pull out of domestic competition to concentrate on the ESL. TV and advertising revenue will flood into the new compeition, starving domestic leagues of investment. Fans will probably still go to games, but the real revenue streams that keep the mid to lower tables afloat will disappear, and so the possibility of a club rising from domestic competition to knock on the ESL door will be minute.

4. The ESL will function on a franchise basis, it will not be based on sporting merit, rather on ability to attract customers (not fans, because fans don't necessarily spend the kind of money needed) and increase the brand name of the SL. Clubs will be invited to compete, from the PL I'd expect United, Liverpool and Arsenal, though Chelsea appear to have succeeded in increasing turnover considerably, so they may get a look in. They'd be joined by Juventus, Inter, Milan, Barca, Real, Bayern, Lyon, one or two from Eastern Europe perhaps...any others?

5. Bums on seats will not matter, unless it's bums on leather seats with a 3 course meal and a cash bar. Atmosphere can be generated, away travel will be a thing of the distant past.

Think that sums it all up..:(

god...now i'm depressed

_blank_

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

Eirebear wrote: »

this time it would simply be the Domestic league of that country.

So what happens next?

A play off system?

Again, I ask, what happens if teams from the same country continually win the play offs?

Eirebear wrote: »

I understand there are flaws in that idea in terms of numbers of clubs etc, but i am not payed to work these things out.

But you are quite content to sit there and proclaim it as a great idea, but when people point out the flaws you say "well yeah, I'm sure there are flaws, but I couldn't be arsed addressing them"

Weird.

I thought you were better than that Eirebear.

I'm actually disappointed.

Eirebear

Des wrote: »

So what happens next?

A play off system?

Again, I ask, what happens if teams from the same country continually win the play offs?



But you are quite content to sit there and proclaim it as a great idea, but when people point out the flaws you say "well yeah, I'm sure there are flaws, but I couldn't be arsed addressing them"

Weird.

I thought you were better than that Eirebear.

I'm actually disappointed.

Des, i dont think you have read my posts properly at all.

I have not once proclaimed it as a great idea...in fact i am a little wary of the idea as i know there is very little, if any, chance of my club becoming involved.

I do however think it will happen sooner or later, so have turned my attentions to trying to figure out ways of making it work as best it can.

So yes, i did concede there were flaws in my thinking, but give me some time to work them out and i will post my suggestions.....as im sure the ESL will listen to me

therecklessone

Eirebear wrote: »

Another major part of English football's coninued success is the payments given to teams relegated from the premiership. it has injected a huge amount of cash into the lower divisions and kept the championship compettitive.

The same principals can be brought into play for a Super League IMO.

The problem I see is that small level of solidarity will not be continued on to the bigger stage as the people responsible for initiating this SL will want to cement their own places, and protect their revenue streams.

I can see sides competing in the SL wanting feeder clubs in domestic competition to blood younger players, that is about as far as their altruism will stretch.

stovelid

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

Great post, Recklessone.

I've often joked morbidly about how the logical conclusion of the changes in modern football will be a super-league, continuing lack of geographical basis to mega-team support (perhaps with the clubs even physically located somewhere like the middle-east); pay-per-view as the dominant viewing model; international competition marginalized or defunct, and all other football leagues marginalized and essentially acting as feeder clubs to the mega-league clubs.

Not so far-fetched, when you think about it.

Eirebear

therecklessone wrote: »

The problem I see is that small level of solidarity will not be continued on to the bigger stage as the people responsible for initiating this SL will want to cement their own places, and protect their revenue streams.

I can see sides competing in the SL wanting feeder clubs in domestic competition to blood younger players, that is about as far as their altruism will stretch.

I completely understand where you are coming from, but i think if this is the case then it would eventually be suicide for everyone involved.

As a static league eventually becomes of no interest to anyone.

_blank_

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

stovelid wrote: »

and all other football leagues marginalized and essentially acting as feeder clubs to the mega-league clubs.

I actually think Holland and, to a lesser extent, France have resigned themselves to such a fate already tbh

Ireland has just chosen to bypass the domestic being a feeder league, and send their youngsters away at an earlier age.

stovelid

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

Des wrote: »

Good post, but what are the benefits of this?

Because, to paraphrase Morrissey: every day will be like a Super Mega-Showdown-Sunday.

therecklessone

Eirebear wrote: »

As a static league eventually becomes of no interest to anyone.

TV men will make anything sound interesting. Do you think all marketing is about feeding demand? It's not, it's about creating demand.

Think about it, are Ryanair the successful entity they are because 190 people want to fly into a disused military airfield 100 miles from civilisation? Or is it because they've convinced people that 1c flights are worth the aggravation?

Eirebear

therecklessone wrote: »

TV men will make anything sound interesting. Do you think all marketing is about feeding demand? It's not, it's about creating demand.

Think about it, are Ryanair the successful entity they are because 190 people want to fly into a disused military airfield 100 miles from civilisation? Or is it because they've convinced people that 1c flights are worth the aggravation?

lol, good point.

Des

Don't care

Des wrote: »

Please.

Explain this process to me.

I don't wanna put words in his mouth, but the gist of what i got from that post is instead of the current CL, have the same qualification processes but have it in a proper league format to determine the winners with a different set of participants each year.

The downside of this is that teams with little or no chance of winning it after, say half the games have been played, will just field weak/under-strngth teams towards the business end of the year.

redout

Des wrote: »

Please.

Explain this process to me.

Becasue I can't fathom it out.

How do you pick from the Champions of the left over national divisions?

If the "top 4" from England, Spain, Germany, Italy, plus random other teams from France, Holland, Greece. Not to mention the Eastern European giants, like CSKA Moscow etc.

When these are all off playing in their ESL, are the domestic leagues continuing as normal?

What happens to the champions of these various divisions?

Now...what happens if one certain country's teams start to dominate, and eventually you get the likes of Villa, Spurs, Newcastle, Blackburn all competing in either Tier1 or Tier2 of the ESL.

How do teams from other countries get a chance?

What happens if a country like France loses all it's representatives?

Come on, all you proponents of this new league.

Step up and explain it to me.

Please.

The league should consist of the top 20 teams according to the UEFA coefficients which are available here http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/tcoef2009.html a few surprises in that list dare I say. As you can see from the present top 20 there are eight different countries represented. Thereafter the domestic leagues should be used as a tool to gain promotion to this elite league. The winners of the domestic leagues then go into mini league which should consist of two small groups representing the domestic league winners of europe with the two group winners gaining promotion and the two runners-up having a play-off to decide the third and final team to be promoted. If a country lose's all it representatives then its there responsibility to improve and get themselves back in it. The tv money for the premiership will be drastically reduced giving the likes of french clubs and some spanish ones an even playing field financially to compete with english clubs. O bviuosly more thought and consideration can go into this but its a start at least.

PHB

Don't care

I think unless somebody can work out a way of keeping relegation and promotion, the league will destroy football in the long term in Europe. The national teams that have teams in the super league will see a drastic drop, because less and less players will develop to the required level.

That said, I would prefer a league to the CL format.
I like the idea of the top teams from the 3 big leagues, and the top teams from Germany and , and then a play off for the other 3 spots [which would include the winners from the other leagues, and maybe the 2nd team from the top 3 or something].
That would make a 8 team league. Each team plays each other home and away. 16 games in total. Currently a full CL campaign is 13 games long. Only 3 extra games.

Then we'd have a real European League, filled with mostly champions [but I'm ok with the 2nd place team from the top leagues getting in personally].
And then run the UEFA cup in the background.

Not only would it get the amazing matches on a more regular basis (Imagine United playing Chelsea, Barca, Madrid, Inter, Juve, Lyon, Bayern twice a season), it would also reinvigorate the UEFA Cup, because every year, 2 out of United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool would be in it.

eagle eye

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

Well as far as I'm concerned the Premier League title is the covenant of English football. Likewise La Liga is the most important title in Spain, couldn't say for certain about Serie A but I'd imagine its the same again.

I don't see a European Super-League ever happening. The Champion's League was a well thought out formula and it works too well imo for any other league format to take its place.

The biggest problem with a league like this imo is that you would get these new fans and eventually they would gravitate towards three or four teams and you would end up just like it is now in the bigger leagues where you can only expect three or four sides to challenge for a title. When that happens then where do you go? I don't think a league like that is sustainable. Eventually you would have a smaller fan base and a smaller tv audience than is presently the case.

SectionF

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

invincibleirish wrote: »

Des you clearly have little faith in UEFA, the Pay TV men and their marketing folk in coming up with a format that will keep all the relevant parties* happy.

*not including fans. Surely the LoI militants will be supportive of an ESL anyway, when the daytrippers can't afford to head to Moscow or Milan for that crucial league game they'll head down to their local LoI stadia and witness the action in the flesh right?

Interesting analysis. Grounded, however faintly, in reality and offering just enough to keep hope alive.

But, to extend it, will Irish EPL militants help ruin it all by arguing to retain their birthright of authentic football in EPL, 'their' national league? Or will they recognise that this is what people want and buy their kids Barca jersies?

Paul Tergat

This is a stupid idea. Would be bad on so many levels.

SectionF

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

eagle eye wrote: »

Well as far as I'm concerned the Premier League title is the covenant of English football.

A covenant? It's only been in existence since 1992!

LuckyLloyd

Don't care

Des:

- You initially have to decide the 'chosen' 14 - 20 break away clubs who will compete in the inaugural season of the new European superleague;

- If, in theory, everything was arranged, signed, sealed and delivered before the end of this season - you schedule the new competition to begin in late February / early March 2010 (i.e. it runs in line with a current summer soccer campaign calendar);

- The teams who will be chosen for the first season finish out current domestic and European campaigns this May / June and are left with a 8 month preparation window before the new league starts;

- The remaining European teams compete in their domestic leagues for the 2009 / 10 season as per usual;

- However, they are now required to condense their seasons so that they have a league champion declared by May 01 2010;

- May 02 2010 every UEFA league champion is entered into a 'Superleague qualification tournament draw'. Draw is unseeded;

- Games start as soon as possible and competition is run off over a six week period. Two games a week / one leg cup ties;

- You play off like the current intertoto cup, i.e. play down to however many teams you intend to promote;

- Those teams replace the bottom teams in the Superleague from Feb / March 2011;

- The relegated Superleague teams return to domestic competition from 2011 / 2012 season;

- This means that relegated teams will have to spend at least one season back in the rotation of Domestic competition before they can go back to the Superleague;


Rough draft, obvious drawbacks and points of contention - but I'm sure the above could be improved upon and made viable.

FWIW, I would be opposed to the idea of a European Superleague. But it isn't hard to see how the above would make for more 'big event' matches over the course of a calendar year. Thus making it attractive to TV, Sponsors and clubs looking to make themselves an International event.

The Superleague winner or top four or whatever would be able to play off at the end of the year versus their equivalent finishers in the Copa Libertadores and MLS for a revised and expanded FIFA World Club Cup competition aswell...

SectionF

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

FWIW, I would be opposed to the idea of a European Superleague.

Why? You seem to have listed a number of advantages...

eagle eye

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

SectionF wrote: »

A covenant? It's only be in existence since 1992!

And so what does that mean, just because it replaced the old first division its still the pinnacle of the English football.

kryogen

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

If the top teams in Europe separate and form the European Super League it will be a very black day in football, one that may be inevitable judging by the past, but one that I nor many football fans want

I feel with the domestic league and the Champs League and UEFA cup/Euro League there is enough interaction between the top clubs. they compete for the highest honours every year in a multi country competition and also compete in their own countries as it should be

I would not lend my support to the Super League, but if i is what the most powerful men in the sport want (clubs and tv men) then it will happen unfprtunatly, maybe not in the immediate future, but in the not to distant future i would say

stovelid

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

Not being a WUM here, but I'm surprised at the apparent lack of acquiescence so far for a super league. Maybe a poll would have helped.

Doesn't the super-league tally with the concept of superior football?

The majority of fans here support a small number of major clubs, and one of the more prominent arguments re: EPL is that it is a superior product. Excitement. Top players and whatnot.

Isn't the current EPL set-up basically a superclub setup of sorts anyway? Very few teams have a real chance to win it, and the remainder of teams are there to make up the numbers or try and get a cup run.

Furthermore, since the inauguration of the CL, the clubs that would be part of a super-league have been overwhelmingly represented in the winners list - and have immediately stripped the star players out of the smaller (as in, next-tier-down European giants) teams who have actually managed to win it.

SectionF

Maybe: If will need to be structured to ensure fairness and foster competition

stovelid wrote: »

Not being a WUM here, but I'm surprised at the apparent lack of acquiescence so far for a super league. Maybe a poll would have helped.

Good suggestion. Non-WUM poll added.

Guy:Incognito

mike65 wrote: »

Any league without promotion/relagation is pointless.

Meh. We're not involved in any of that small club malarky anyway. May as well be none as far as I'm concerned.:D

Bobalicious93

Just make the CL an all-knockout stage competition. Screw the groups.

....And bring back the Cup Winners' Cup while you're at it

Bounty Hunter

Don't care

Not in support of this but as far as how it could work promotion/relegation etc this is what id see:

Could you not just treat each country individually and akin to the way the inter-pro's used to and the Celtic league now works to give irish teams for example qualificatiion to the Heiniken cup in Rugby.

i.e Connaught normally finish 4th out of 4 Irish sides in the celtic league and therefore arent in the heiniken cup the following season, if they had finished 3rd ahead of Ulster they would be in it instead.

In Football and a european Super-league this would mean that whichever team from each country that finishes with the lowest number of points would be replaced by the team that won that countrys national league that year. For instance if Arsenal came 4th out of the English 4 while Villa won the Premiership minus the 4 in the ESL, Villa would then replace.

Obviously then there is the question of how teams from smaller countries can get into it / have a chance to benefit financially like the big boys. I would have to guess they would still have some sort of Seeding and qualification rds at the end of a normal season i.e the new Irish champs vs the new Norweigan champs in a qualification round. Anyside that doesent qualify defends their national title the following year. The only problem would be maybe countries like Scotland where say Celtic are in the ESL but Rangers win the league to qualify. Celtic shouldent automatically loose out i guess as they didnt have the opportunity to defend their national title so i guess the two would have a playoff with massive financial implication.

eirebhoy

No: It will favour super-rich elite clubs at the expense of domestic leagues

As long as it includes Celtic it's a definite yes for me.