Dealers not helping their industry.

Preset No.3

Speaking of Volvos. There is a very nice V50 down in Esmondes in Goatstown. A '06 in a nice blue colour, looks to be a decent spec, havnt really looked at it just thought it would be a nice car for the SO and little sprogs one day. Definatly not looking to buy it, Im just making a point.

It was 20k before xmas. Its now 19k. If I was interested in this car I would offer 15k for it. Most likely the dealer would say fxxk off! Its now the end of Feb and that car is still for sale. The dealer hopes for some sucker to come in and pay over the odds for that car. More than likely that car will still be there in June and the dealer might be lucky to get 15k for it. So are dealers that stubborn to hold on to stock that is going to lose value anyway or get what they can when they can. My experience tells me that a dealer would rather crush the car than sell it at a loss just to get some cash back into the dealership!

time lord

A main dealer for Fiat, Hyundai, Saab plus Alpha Romeo has a fresh new sign in his forecourt accross the road from me. It tall blue with yellow writing. "WE SELL UK CARS" and beside it are three cars still with their foreign plates on. S.i.m.i. where are you now!!!

-Chris-

Preset No.3 wrote: »

This kind of debate has been going on for a while and its a bit tired. Have a bit of pitty for the dealers etc etc. EH.....no! Back when times were good, getting a salesman to call you back was a minor miracle in itself. The same salesman had no real interest in you if you were only spending 10k on a car. He wanted the big sale and the big commision. The sale was one thing, the after sales was another, again no interest!! Hi, Id like to buy a car, ok sir, you will have delivery in 4-6 months!!!

Have no pity on the bad dealers, they'll go to the wall. Be grateful for the good dealers, they'll see you right. Have pity on the good dealers who go to the wall, that's a proper tragedy!

I don't agree with your commission statement. I sell high-end cars, I make decent profit out of each one (not as much as you think, btw), I work hard for each one and I don't sell too many. For a seriously interested customer I'll be with them for 1-2 hours going through every permutation and every requirement.
If I worked for a car supermarket, I'd generate far less profit per sale, but I'd sell 5 times as many cars - I'd churn them out and be ruthless with my time.

Delivery times are outside any salesperson's control and aren't really relevant to this discussion imho.

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Car salesmen, dealers and the car companies have nobody to blame but themselves. You didnt respect the customer during the boom, how do you expect us to respect you now?

That's a pretty disgraceful attitude when you're dealing with customer facing staff. When you buy a car you don't buy someone's dignity. Just because you've been treated badly by a dealer previously doesn't give you the right to treat them disrespectfully.
My wife is customer facing in the banking industry, and when I read/hear reports of people verbally abusing/spitting at staff because they're p*ssed off at the actions of the bank itself, I get very annoyed.
If I saw someone act that way towards my wife personally, I couldn't be held accountable for my actions after that...

If someone treats you badly, don't deal with them again. If you have a verifiable crappy experience, name and shame. If someone treats you really well, have the follow through to get on here and praise/recommend/refer them to your contacts.

unkel wrote: »

Yeah and that argument has become a bit tiresome too. The car industry is in trouble now and we should commend professionals like AudiChris for not sticking their head in the sand, but rather be pro-active and for trying to find ways to improve the business

Let's not get carried away here, sometimes I'm as guilty as the next (any industry) salesperson for not calling people back, sometimes my attitude stinks (either job related, or bringing personal baggage to work) and sometimes I'm just lazy.
Sometimes we're all guilty of not doing our jobs to the best of our ability. Sometimes we're all guilty of holding others to a higher standard than we would hold ourselves in the same situation.

I've been treated badly by my mobile phone provider, by my bank, by furniture companies, by numerous computer companies... I could go on . Unfortunately the motor industry has a particularly bad reputation and is going to have to work extra hard to break that reputation.

I love the feedback here, and I take it all on board. Someday I'll be in a position to implement some of the suggestions here in a dealer, or across a dealer network, and the day I read "I was just in X dealership and I had a wonderful experience" and I feel I had an actual hand to play in the generation of that post will make me a happy man.

Meantime....

galwaytt

Preset No.3 wrote: »

It was 20k before xmas. Its now 19k. If I was interested in this car I would offer 15k for it. Most likely the dealer would say fxxk off! Its now the end of Feb and that car is still for sale. The dealer hopes for some sucker to come in and pay over the odds for that car. More than likely that car will still be there in June and the dealer might be lucky to get 15k for it. So are dealers that stubborn to hold on to stock that is going to lose value anyway or get what they can when they can. My experience tells me that a dealer would rather crush the car than sell it at a loss just to get some cash back into the dealership!

First of all, seeing as cars depreciate as we all know, and you're saying it might get 15k in June, ergo, it's worth more than that, now. So why should he give it to you for 15k now?

OP - is the UK car from a private or trade seller ? If you buy from the UK, you have no warranty - Volvo Irl won't honour a warranty longer than an Irish one - in the UK, the extra warranty period is often NOT underwritten by the manufacturer.........

maidhc

unkel wrote: »

Yeah and that argument has become a bit tiresome too. The car industry is in trouble now and we should commend professionals like AudiChris for not sticking their head in the sand, but rather be pro-active and for trying to find ways to improve the business

Ireland does not have a car industry, but we have got top heavy with car showrooms...

As you know yourself, a car will only sell at a price a person is willing to buy. You can look for 10k for a car, but if it is only worth 4k, then be prepared to wait forever.

People don't really care about free coffee and pleasantries, and if they do they are silly.

Preset No.3

AudiChris wrote: »

Be grateful for the good dealers, they'll see you right. Have pity on the good dealers who go to the wall, that's a proper tragedy!

Ive been driving BMW for 10 years and I found the high end dealers have an air of 'almighter than thou' when it comes to selling a car. Thats not just 1 dealer either.

Delivery times are outside any salesperson's control and aren't really relevant to this discussion imho.

Not really. During the boom, 6 months wait to get a decent spec BMW was not unheard of. Again, I consider it a lack of respect to the customer.


That's a pretty disgraceful attitude when you're dealing with customer facing staff. When you buy a car you don't buy someone's dignity. Just because you've been treated badly by a dealer previously doesn't give you the right to treat them disrespectfully.

I never said I actually treated any particular salesperson with disprespect. I am expressing opinion that sales people, dealers and car makers have only themselves to blame for past mistakes.

ninty9er

Johnny Utah wrote: »

That's precisley what some dealers are doing at the moment. They can't have it both ways!

against new cars yes, but they're shifting something used off their forecourt in this instance, so in that case, no.

Preset No.3

galwaytt wrote: »

If you buy from the UK, you have no warranty - Volvo Irl won't honour a warranty longer than an Irish one - in the UK, the extra warranty period is often NOT underwritten by the manufacturer.........

Ah the old scare mongering about the warranty. Are you SIMI by any chance?

Buy from a dealer. Get the warranty. It is a european warranty, its covered.

-Chris-

challengemaster wrote: »

But so far all he's done is try find ways to try justify both his own viewpoint and current prices.... That's hardly finding ways to improve the business - all you have to do is read a little and you'll see the main thing people aren't happy about is the current price of stock.

I'm actually marginally interested in prices. It's the one area that I have little or no control over. I'm more interested in the psychology behind a customer arriving at a price-point (for their trade-in or for purchasing a new car, and how they assess UK versus Ireland) because that's information that I can actually absorb and apply!

All you have to do is read a little and see that I'm happy to join you in condemning poor dealer/salesperson performance if someone will provide me with specific issues to consider.

And as for people not being happy with the current price of stock? I don't really know what to say to that!
Dealers are staring down the barrel of 6-7 figure losses this year, if not absolute closure.
The business they built over 20 years (or the business their grandfather built in a shed back in 1930) may cease to be in a matter of months, and the main contributors to it's downfall have been government ineptitude (the haphazard introduction of VRT), a global recession (due to the lack of regulation of the financial sector) and the recent weakening of Sterling (probably someone in the UK's fault...). Their lack of customer service or reticence to move into the internet era pales in comparison to those factors.
If dealers could take cars that are listed at €20k and sell them for €10k, they would! Unfortunately, they paid €17k for these cars and have paid stocking costs since, so they find it hard to bite that bullet.
They're also cognizant of the fact that, when they drop the price of that car from €20k to €10k, they'll also have to drop the price of the trade-ins they're taking from €17k to €7k - and that's going to p*ss off a lot of loyal customers. Repeat business is vital to any company's survival.

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Speaking of Volvos. There is a very nice V50 down in Esmondes in Goatstown. A '06 in a nice blue colour, looks to be a decent spec, havnt really looked at it just thought it would be a nice car for the SO and little sprogs one day. Definatly not looking to buy it, Im just making a point.

It was 20k before xmas. Its now 19k. If I was interested in this car I would offer 15k for it. Most likely the dealer would say fxxk off! Its now the end of Feb and that car is still for sale. The dealer hopes for some sucker to come in and pay over the odds for that car. More than likely that car will still be there in June and the dealer might be lucky to get 15k for it. So are dealers that stubborn to hold on to stock that is going to lose value anyway or get what they can when they can. My experience tells me that a dealer would rather crush the car than sell it at a loss just to get some cash back into the dealership!

See above.

If a dealer thinks they can retail a car for €20k, they'll try and take it in for €17k - either they'll sell it immediately and make decent money, or they'll sell it in 3 or 4 months and make a small profit, or they'll sell it in 6 months and make a small loss. That's the nature of the business.

That car used to be a trade-in as part of another deal.

You're suggesting that the €20k car should be blown-out for €15k just to get rid of it. If €15k was the actual value of the car, they'd have taken it in for €12k, but they probably wouldn't have done the original deal if they trade-in value was €12k so they pumped up the trade-in value in the hope that they could sell it at retail for a profit.
Every used car price is the result of the deal that preceded it.

If every €20k car was blown-out at €15k, you wouldn't be in business very long...

time lord wrote: »

A main dealer for Fiat, Hyundai, Saab plus Alpha Romeo has a fresh new sign in his forecourt accross the road from me. It tall blue with yellow writing. "WE SELL UK CARS" and beside it are three cars still with their foreign plates on. S.i.m.i. where are you now!!!

You'd have to ask the boards.ie SIMI rep about that one, but I'm pretty sure that the SIMI's issue is with people importing and driving cars without paying the legitimate taxes, rather than importing and paying all taxes due.

I'd have to agree with that - everyone should be paying all the taxes that they're legally liable for. Tax evasion is a crime.

-Chris-

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Ive been driving BMW for 10 years and I found the high end dealers have an air of 'almighter than thou' when it comes to selling a car. Thats not just 1 dealer either.

But that makes them bad dealers (due to their attitude), not good! What's your point?

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Delivery times are outside any salesperson's control and aren't really relevant to this discussion imho.

Not really. During the boom, 6 months wait to get a decent spec BMW was not unheard of. Again, I consider it a lack of respect to the customer.

But that's at factory/global level, and nothing to do with the garage or salesperson.

The salesperson doesn't get paid until the car leaves the premises. It's in their interest to sell from stock, sell from other dealer's stock, sell from national stock or sell a custom order - in that order!
No salesperson or dealer would deliberately delay the delivery of a car.

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Car salesmen, dealers and the car companies have nobody to blame but themselves. You didnt respect the customer during the boom, how do you expect us to respect you now?

Preset No.3 wrote: »

I never said I actually treated any particular salesperson with disprespect. I am expressing opinion that sales people, dealers and car makers have only themselves to blame for past mistakes.

Apologies, when you said you didn't feel you were expected to respect car salespeople, I presumed you were treating said salespeople disrespectfully. It was a presumption on my part.

Johnny Utah

ninty9er wrote: »

against new cars yes, but they're shifting something used off their forecourt in this instance, so in that case, no.

My point was that dealers are now offering derisory values on trade-ins, which is fair enough given the economic circumstances we are in at present. In effect, the value offered on the car traded-in would be quite similar with an equivalent UK import. However, when the dealer goes to sell that car, it will be well above the amount he paid in the trade-in, as evidenced by the example given by the OP. Dealers need to get realistic- if they want to stay in business they should be eager to sell a car, even if it means selling on the trade-in with only a small profit. In the example above, a number of car dealers had an opportunity to sell their car (perhaps at €15k), but they simply weren't interested. They can keep telling themselves that the car sitting on their forecourt is worth €17k, but in 5 or 6 months time, the car will still be sitting there.

ninty9er

They're offering UK values on trade in against new cars as they are adding a car to stock, in selling it on with an asking price of trade + €1500, they will probably settle for trade + €500.

They have to make a profit to stay in business, and to be honest the idea of having to travel 100 miles to get to the nearest dealer for the top 10 manufacturers doesn't appeal to me, so for now it's either take it or leave it.

Me, I'm gonna leave it and change my car when I've got some cash. In the mean time it probably needs a full body respray at some stage next year and some suspension work too. But it still has less than 40k miles on the clock so it's not for the scrap heap yet.

Quite frankly, you could use the argument of going to the UK for furniture, electronics and groceries.

While there's easily a financial saving at current exchange rates
a) That won't last forever
b) Our cost of living is falling faster than theirs
c) It's a pain in the hole when Dunnes is 5 mins away and Superquinn is 15 mins away and I can have my pick of Aldis and Lidls in between to pick up bits and pieces.

I went in to my local off licence this evening and the place looked like he was after selling all the fittings to cover the electricity bill. Even the newspaper stand was gone. I'd prefer to keep it, and if that means paying a little extra now when times are tough, that's a price I'm gonna have to pay if I don't want to end up living in some sh1thole of a commuter shell with no community. The same applies right across the economy. 20c extra per can or €2k extra for a car.

I'm sure at least ONE of those dealers would have met the OP half way between €13k and €18k

€15.5k is still good value for a 2 year old S40 with a decent spec. I feel it's a little unlikely that the same would happen if the OP went in and bargained with the said dealers.

scanner1

AudiChris wrote: »

I'm actually marginally interested in prices. It's the one area that I have little or no control over. I'm more interested in the psychology behind a customer arriving at a price-point (for their trade-in or for purchasing a new car, and how they assess UK versus Ireland) because that's information that I can actually absorb and apply!

I definatley think that past perfromance of the industry has left a sour taste in the mouth of many people especially during boom times, from my point of view I renenber on a day 2 years ago when attempting to upgrade from my 01 Laguna to a new car the salesman walked out to me and said "I hope you are not trying to trade in that piece of s*it" over the next couple of weeks I tried about 15 other garages and got pretty similar if not identical responses from them all. the laguna may be a bit of a lemon, but there was no need for the sales people to be so rude to a potential customer.. I still have the laguna will try and sell on for a small amount over the next few months(to cover ferry/flight costs) and get my motor from the uk because all the local dealers told me in no uncertain terms they did not want my business.....

lafors

AudiChris wrote: »

Thanks. Usually you get more honest answers on the anonymous internet than you do in a showroom, I was wondering what the thought process behind the purchasing decision looked like.
I was surprised at the seemingly "no, we're just not doing it, sod off!" responses the OP is alluding to.

Personally I wouldn't be expecting the dealer to match the 14k.
I would however start my side of the negotiation at 14k (or whatever I felt reasonable), then let the salesman come back with a counter offer.
If he blindly says PFO, then why would you want to deal with him.
I think its a bit of give & take on both sides, I think negotiation is an art we've ALL lost during the good times! (both the buyers & sellers)

AudiChris wrote: »

Our Used Car Manager (also an owner of the garage) sets the prices, the sales staff just try and sell the cars within the pricing parameters he's set.

If a car is proving particularly hard to sell, or if the car is getting quite a lot of interest but at a lower price point than it's currently set at, the salespeople will let the boss know and he'll decide whether he wants to re-price it and take the loss or hold his ground.
Trust me, if salespeople could get the dealer to instantly reprice the stock and let them sell every unit in stock, they'd be over the moon.
The reality is that 60-80% of used cars sold in dealers recently have sold at a loss, and the boss is keeping the price as high as possible while still letting them sell, trying to minimise the losses his business is experiencing.

Yeah thats the sh*te part of the situation we're all in, no matter what you work at now. The boss always wants to keep his profits as good as they've been over that past few years and doesn't care how his minions do it

AudiChris wrote: »

But I'm way OT now, let's get back to the import vs Irish conversation!

Actually I'd rather read a topic on this than on the import vs irish topic

ninty9er

scanner1 wrote: »

I definatley think that past perfromance of the industry has left a sour taste in the mouth of many people especially during boom times, from my point of view I renenber on a day 2 years ago when attempting to upgrade from my 01 Laguna to a new car the salesman walked out to me and said "I hope you are not trying to trade in that piece of s*it" over the next couple of weeks I tried about 15 other garages and got pretty similar if not identical responses from them all. the laguna may be a bit of a lemon, but there was no need for the sales people to be so rude to a potential customer.. I still have the laguna will try and sell on for a small amount over the next few months(to cover ferry/flight costs) and get my motor from the uk because all the local dealers told me in no uncertain terms they did not want my business.....

Just because you have a Renault doesn't mean the dealer doesn't want you business, it means he doesn't want an unshiftable car, that the majority of his customers will think is a piece of sh1t.

If you went in with cash you'd get the deal. I've never gotten a trade in on a TV or stereo, in fact there's a statutory surcharge on the trade in that case...I have to pay them.

In fairness, this is a common response with Renault, Fiat (particular models) and to a lesser extent Peugeot and Citroen.

Similarly if you went to a Beemer dealer they wouldn't want to know if your car was more than 4 years old as they'd have to shift it in the trade. Apparently it's "policy" not to retail anything over 3 years old. Sounded like bollix to me, but apparently so when I looked for a 6 year old car listed on carzone. It was a private sale for a customer:rolleyes:

spadder

AudiChris wrote: »

Yes, that's what you would have preferred them to say, but you still haven't told us what they actually said...

Lads, do your own "Mystery shopper" experiment, select a car at an Irish dealer, find a UK equivalent work out the VRT, shipping etc and see if your Irish guy will match the price or just ring a dealer and make a below par offer.


We know he probably won’t be able to, but what we are testing here is his ability to converse and try to do a deal.

Post your experiences

scanner1

ninty9er wrote: »

Just because you have a Renault doesn't mean the dealer doesn't want you business, it means he doesn't want an unshiftable car, that the majority of his customers will think is a piece of sh1t.

If you went in with cash you'd get the deal. I've never gotten a trade in on a TV or stereo, in fact there's a statutory surcharge on the trade in that case...I have to pay them.

In fairness, this is a common response with Renault, Fiat (particular models) and to a lesser extent Peugeot and Citroen.

Similarly if you went to a Beemer dealer they wouldn't want to know if your car was more than 4 years old as they'd have to shift it in the trade. Apparently it's "policy" not to retail anything over 3 years old. Sounded like bollix to me, but apparently so when I looked for a 6 year old car listed on carzone. It was a private sale for a customer:rolleyes:

ninty9er, I'm not disputing the fact that most people think my car is rubbish, I just don't need a lecture as to how stupid I was in the first place to buy one. (which more than one proceeded to do) Why should I sell my car privatley and then go back to the salesman that insulted me to buy a car off him and give him commission. If they said to me "I am very sorry but we dont take them in on trade because we cant sell them, but try and sell it privatley and come back to see if we can do a deal" I would have no issue with them, but they all thought the gravy train was going to keep on coming and if they did'nt like what was coming in the gate they would show their arrogance. All I am saying is if they were more professional in the good times the reputation of the industry may not be as bad now....

Stevie Dakota

Can I just say that over many years I have rarely encountered a poor Irish car salesperson. In generally they have been reasonably knowledgeable, affable and keen to deal. The only poor experience involved a VW main dealer in 1999 at the height of the madness, and yes, it was a silver Golf! Some dealers have been exceptional, and when I was not able to buy from them I emailed to thank them for the good service.

I know there are bad apples, but I think like every business the majority are hardworking, trying there best to make ends meet in difficult times. I certainly think that some of the comments here are well out of line.

Owen

scanner1 wrote: »

All I am saying is if they were more professional in the good times the reputation of the industry may not be as bad now....

The industry is screwed as a whole because of the changes, and more importantly, the devaluation of Sterling as a whole. Not to mention beardie-on-the-bike, aka Gormless of the Green Party who screwed the trade in one fell swoop, rather than phasing in changes smoothly.

robtri

Like AudiChris, said ther are good dealers and bad dealers out there, same as any industry....
you just have to look at the ones that are good, and weed out the bad ones.

Op, you said you just rang dealers and asked them to match your price...
not being funny, but that is a very poor way of negotiating, I am sure a lot of the salesmen you spoke to, where thinking who the hell is this clown....

if you are serious about getting a decent quote, get your information together about the car you are considering buying in the Uk, then go in PERSON to the dealers and talk to the salesrep, tell them what you have seen, show them the prices and ASK them what can they do for you...
I would be very surprised if you would not get the 17k car for close to the 15K or 15.5K that you would be willing to pay...

I am not a dealer, but I have had a lot of dealings in past with them, and trying to negotiate on the phone just doesn't get result, as especially most of them won't take you serious,

Drummerboy08

One thing i would like to point out here, is how everyone is saying "i'm sick of main dealers and how they ripped me off in the good times" etc etc.

NOBODY put a gun to your head to take out 40k on finance to buy your new car every year. You made that decision.

IMO it was the public's greediness and foolishness with their money that allowed dealers to charge so much money on cars. People were falling over each other trying to get in the door of a showroom. If people had a bit more sense with their finances, the motor trade, wouldnt have put a saddle on your back, along with alot of other industries of course.

The dealers said to themselves, "if these people want to spend their money, let them at it".

If you didnt like being ripped off by dealers, why did you buy your new car every year, or two years?

This isnt aimed at the OP, just at people in general who are doing a lot of giving out about the industries that made the most of the good times.

Owen

Exactly Robtri, it's a well proven statistic in the trade, that if you give your price on the phone, you have less than a 10% chance of seeing that person come in the door and buy a car. They just shop around every other Dealer on the phone too.

Negotiating in person is a whole different ballgame than negotiating on the phone and usually has a much better outcome for both the customer, and garage. The garage is going to have a stronger possibility of closing the sale, and the customer will have more power to control the price point at the end of the deal.

ToxicPaddy

OP, I think you are right to let your walking do the talking and go elsewhere if you arent happy with the level of customer service you're getting.. People work hard for their money (well most do!! ) so go to the UK and make the most of it by buying the car you want at the price you feel is fair..

After all, a car is only worth what a person is willing to pay for it, if that car is still sitting on the lot in 12 months, lets see what its worth then, if the dealership is still there?? :rolleyes:

AudiChris, I have to say its good to hear of someone in the car trade acting and being professional and actually knowing what they are talking about, listening to the customer and being pro active about it all. I know exist its just they are few and far between. Hopefully when all this economic doom and gloom has blown over there will be more like you out there.

Maybe you could teach a few guys who have come into the industry in the good times and think selling a car is standing there looking smug and looking down on the customer what customer service is all about and how to actually sell a car..

Just my 2c

Tox

Zube

ned78 wrote: »

The industry is screwed as a whole because of the changes, and more importantly, the devaluation of Sterling as a whole.

Sure, but the point is that if the industry wasn't largely staffed by ignorant, condescending muppets who couldn't sell ice cream to kids at the beach, we, the customers, might feel bad about the industry.

But we don't.

Farls

I approached 3 dealers in the South last week to buy two new cars, one for my sister and one for my dad. Two 09 vehicles with no trade ins basically.

First dealers salesman told me to go to the UK and save myself some money :eek: :eek:

Second dealer I spoke to the owner and he had no interest in bargaining even though it was a straight cash deal!

Third dealer rang me back with what was supposedly an ultra low price that turned out to be 500€ more expensive than dealer no. 2!!

Went to a fourth dealership in Enniskillen and saved 10k€+ on both vehicles compared to southern prices. Not only this but we were treated a hell of a lot better than any dealer this side of the border.

IMO they are digging their own graves.

scanner1

ned78 wrote: »

The industry is screwed as a whole because of the changes, and more importantly, the devaluation of Sterling as a whole. Not to mention beardie-on-the-bike, aka Gormless of the Green Party who screwed the trade in one fell swoop, rather than phasing in changes smoothly.

ned, I was commenting on the reputation of the industry, or its perception in the public not the reasons for its demise, there is very little sympathy out there for the industry as a whole due to the level of service people got over the last few years, I can count numours experiences of family and friends over the last 5+ years from the industry that have been negative.. even last week I called to one dealer looking at a car for my sister (straight deal) and the minute he saw my car he said "I hope you don't think you are getting a trade in on that rubbish" when I explained to him what I was about he changed his tune very quickly.... there is/was no need for the condesending/arrogant behaviour.(from the dealers)

L-M

Farls wrote: »

I approached 3 dealers in the South last week to buy two new cars, one for my sister and one for my dad. Two 09 vehicles with no trade ins basically.

First dealers salesman told me to go to the UK and save myself some money :eek: :eek:

Second dealer I spoke to the owner and he had no interest in bargaining even though it was a straight cash deal!

Third dealer rang me back with what was supposedly an ultra low price that turned out to be 500€ more expensive than dealer no. 2!!

Went to a fourth dealership in Enniskillen and saved 10k€+ on both vehicles compared to southern prices. Not only this but we were treated a hell of a lot better than any dealer this side of the border.

IMO they are digging their own graves.

On another note, my cousin is buying a new car, and we narrowed it down to a choice of four. Went to the relevant dealers and here was the outcome.

Car A. They didn't have the spec we wanted (which was a fairly common spec) or a brochure for the 09 model (Brochures can be hard got sometimes, and they did have the brochures for the 08 model).

Car B. Had a 09 demo models clearly parked infront of us, wouldn't leave us drive it, told us to come back during the week. All the while the dealer wasn't very welcoming, hadn't a clue about spec, and didn't have a brochure.

Car C. Dealer wasn't overly excited to talk to us. Again, no car that we could test drive and didn't have the spec we were after (Which is fair enough, it was a high spic).

Car D. We went in, were handed the keys and off we went for a spin. Came back to the lad running out to us, saying he had to run, needed to go home. (Fair enough, we're all human). Went inside then, and the lad we were directed to hadn't got a clue about spec. Took our number and off we went.
_____________________________________________________________

We actually came home pissed off. Not one of them wanted to sell a car to us, it would completely put you off going back there for the two that invited us back from a testdrive.

You can only defend your own side so much, but FFS, if this is the way they are acting, there's not a hope in hell they will sell anything.

Owen

scanner1 wrote: »

I can count numours experiences of family and friends over the last 5+ years from the industry that have been negative

And that's a crying shame, and you can be grateful that those will be the Dealers culled by customers such as yourself seeking a good purchasing experience, and fair play to you for doing it.

But aren't forums like this the same as the old pub conversation on a Saturday night? We're all inclined to come on here bitching about things, I know I do it myself in other Forums too. Consider that there are indeed, a very large number of Dealers doing things correctly and professionally, as there are a large volume of used cars being sold in Ireland currently. The huge difference is that the happy people generally don't come on and extol their merriment on a Forum, and if they do, you don't get 6 pages of followup stories singing from the same hymn sheet.

This thread and others like it appear negative, because that's what a Forum, and threads with this title, generally attracts. It's not all that bad out there

spadder

To all the dealers on here,
just curious,do SIMI garages do a "mystery shopper" on their members, if not, it would seem it could give some very valuable independant feedback.

If I owned a showroom, I'd have all my cousins and friends ringing up every month testing the service.

L-M

spadder wrote: »

To all the dealers on here,
just curious,do SIMI garages do a "mystery shopper" on their members, if not, it would seem it could give some very valuable independant feedback.

They do.

spadder

Limerick man wrote: »

They do.

and do they disclose the relults to other members and the industry as a whole?

Anan1

ned78 wrote: »

Consider that there are indeed, a very large number of Dealers doing things correctly and professionally, as there are a large volume of used cars being sold in Ireland currently. The huge difference is that the happy people generally don't come on and extol their merriment on a Forum, and if they do, you don't get 6 pages of followup stories singing from the same hymn sheet.

I honestly don't think there are, and I say this as someone who has both worked in car sales and bought a lot of cars myself. If I were pushed for a guess, I would say that 80%+ of car sales people are either incompetent, unprofessional, or both.

Owen

Generally the Distributor will mystery shop their franchisees. It has been the case in the UK where they do this with hidden video cameras, and sales people have been let go as a result.

Drummerboy08

Limerick man wrote: »

They do.

So that explains all the w*nkers i've had on the phone the last few months then.

spadder

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

So that explains all the w*nkers i've had on the phone the last few months then.

Outstanding Drummerboy, your the one trying to sell the flippin car!!!

Drummerboy08

spadder wrote: »

Outstanding Drummerboy, your the one trying to sell the flippin car!!!

Yeah but i get kinda suspicious when someone wants to lease an M5 for 500 quid a month.

L-M

spadder wrote: »

Outstanding Drummerboy, your the one trying to sell the flippin car!!!

It can be very hard to deal, and be very demeaning when said w"nkers come in or phone in.

spadder

Limerick man wrote: »

It can be very hard to deal, and be very demeaning when said w"nkers come in or phone in.

I understand there can be abrasive punters out there, but by W@nkers, do you mean someone looking for a discount?

Drummerboy08

Example. We had a landrover Freelander on the web last week. It was the cheapest on carzone by a large figure.

We had one guy phone up, and offer 3k below the asking price. That in my book, is someone wasting my time, and his own time. The car is cheapest on the web for a reason - to sell it. He in my book would be a w*nker.

A friend of mine had a guy on about a new X type, asking for a cash price on it. List price of one of these is about €31500 inc metallic paint. He got a cash price of €29500. Thats a decent discount off it. When he emailed back he said "i will call you later today, by then i hope you have a cash price for me". He, in my books is a w*nker.

The nornal punter who comes in looking for value for money, and good service will get my time and attention. Anyone who makes stupid offers like above stands out to me as someone chancing their arm, not really interested, and therefore i wont waste too much time on them.

EDIT - I just want to point out, i have never actually called the customer a wanker, as Limerick Man says, i knew what to expect when i signed up. I will explain to him why i cant do the price he offers, and make a counter offer. If he doesnt like tha, there isnt a whole lot i can do.

L-M

spadder wrote: »

I understand there can be abrasive punters out there, but by W@nkers, do you mean someone looking for a discount?

Lol, god no. If someone offers me something way too low, and just say I can't, give my lowest price and be chatty about the whole thing. I'd say the first word I've heard from nearly everyone walking in is "I'd say things are gone very quiet".

Anywho, I wouldn't use the term w"nkers to describe anyone, but there are people that come in that are just completely arrogant. But that's what I signed up for when I went into this type of business, if has to be delt with.

If you work with the public, you have a absolutely no excuse to be arrogant or pissed off with a customer. Not only are you putting your reputation on line, but you are putting the reputation the of the employer on the line too.

I've never once gave out to, or been pissed off with a customer. I've taken it from them many a time, but never the other way around.

Owen

As Limerickman said, +1. Discount isn't an issue, people expect it, and it happens. But it's the arrogant guys who come in and berate you ... they're aggressive from the get-go, they furl their eyebrows, purse their lips, point a lot, and put on a silly voice they'd never use in ordinary day-to-day communication ... now they get my goat.

Audichris said it once, and best ... you're buying a car, not the sales person's dignity too.

Farls

Just what I've noticed in the past few months from buying 3 vehicles for myself and family and going to look at countless others around this country and NI/England.

Its a bit like ESB/Bord Gáis at the moment with car dealers, people finally have choice after all these years and we are getting the service we deserve. Just a pity its not in our own country.

UK

Always willing to talk, help you, and are generally in good humour
Offered tea/coffee at each one
Negotiation is not a problem and happy to listen to offers
Know what they are selling
Have a good 'can do' attitude
SELL me the vehicle or at least try too
Go out of there way if I commit to buying (been picked up at the airport twice by UK dealers)

IRL

Left standing for ages waiting for (ignorant) salespeople
No mention of refreshments
Salespeople don't know what they are selling
Little or no room for negotiation
Attitude generally stinks
Second hand cars not valeted waiting for new customers to test drive
Plain unhelpful, it feels like I have to work for the privlidge of buying this vehicle!!

scanner1

ned78 wrote: »

And that's a crying shame, and you can be grateful that those will be the Dealers culled by customers such as yourself seeking a good purchasing experience, and fair play to you for doing it.

But aren't forums like this the same as the old pub conversation on a Saturday night? We're all inclined to come on here bitching about things, I know I do it myself in other Forums too. Consider that there are indeed, a very large number of Dealers doing things correctly and professionally, as there are a large volume of used cars being sold in Ireland currently. The huge difference is that the happy people generally don't come on and extol their merriment on a Forum, and if they do, you don't get 6 pages of followup stories singing from the same hymn sheet.

This thread and others like it appear negative, because that's what a Forum, and threads with this title, generally attracts. It's not all that bad out there

I agree to a certain extent, we are all guilty harping on the negative and not relaying good experiences, I used to always do it with a certain hotel website and never leave feedback on a good experience , started to feel guilty and left feedback on any ones I could remember....:)
I take your point about the bad ones will be culled and there are good ones out there as well who hopefully will survive the crisis...

PauloMN

Have been following this thread with interest, lots of good points made by both sides of the fence. Here's my view on things (as a consumer).

While I've no real experience of dealing with UK dealers (other than a few dealers in NI), I'd agree in the main with Farls's take on Irish dealers:

Farls wrote: »

Left standing for ages waiting for (ignorant) salespeople
No mention of refreshments
Salespeople don't know what they are selling
Little or no room for negotiation
Attitude generally stinks
Second hand cars not valeted waiting for new customers to test drive
Plain unhelpful, it feels like I have to work for the privlidge of buying this vehicle!!

I have honestly about 75% of the time had the experiences above when dealing with car sales staff.

I think a big problem here is the lack of any proper car supermarkets. We have a glut of expensive main dealer type places, with big glitzy showrooms and prices to match. Here, you'll typically get either the new boy - the young lad with the big tie who is generally polite and eager, but knows little about what he is selling, and will just try to push you into buying whatever stock he can't get rid of (refer back to my 115bhp TDi A4 story from a few months back). Or you'll get the guy who has worked there for years, is not necessarily rude (but can be) but is not especially helpful, and to whom every question or request for a test drive is like one big huge burden on his life.

On the flip side, we have literally hundreds of Del Boy outfits. These are the Portakabin specials, with the intimidating atmosphere (and possibly a ropey looking dog) to go with it. These guys will usually come across as quite abrupt, will sneer at your trade-in and be pushy when it comes to dealing with them. "3 months parts and labour" is the order of the day, not forgetting "but that doesn't cover the gearbox" bit. You're almost expecting something to go wrong with that motor you are looking at. They range from chancers and wide-boys to plain criminals (not joking there - I'm talking about the ones that sell clocked cars). Very different to deal with than the glitzy big tie outfits above, but just as off-putting to a consumer - probably moreso in fact.

What's left then aside from private sellers? Not a lot to be honest. I'd say 90% or more of our car dealers here fall into either of the above categories, and I think that's a big part of the problem. We need proper car supermarkets here - along the lines of Merlin Motors or whatever they're called, but bigger, and with a wider selection of cars, more than just ex-hires. We also need more quality independent dealers, family run businesses, with proper premises but not glitzy expensive showrooms. Places where you can get a sense of pride in the place, and where you know the sales people are trying to do the best they can for you, even if it doesn't necessarily end in a sale.

I think the OP makes some valid points. Irish people are, in general, willing to pay a little extra for a product. We live on an island, we're all well aware that things generally cost more here. But we're not willing to be taken for fools when it comes to making such big purchases. Dealers need to change their attitude to consumers, the ones that do (or that always acted professionally) will be the ones that survive. Those that don't will thankfully go out of business.

The go to guy

to be fair prices are dropping by the day in ireland as the economic situation gets worse, everytime someone loses there job the first thing they do is dump the car costing them 400 a month or what ever, so its an uphill battle for the dealers to always be the cheapest. and belive it or not the only money car dealers are making at the minute is on cars they are getting in at the ;new money' and selling them quick. I think your right, go to England and save the 4k. put 2k in your back pocket in case the gearbox or something goes and your laughing

Drummerboy08

Just back from Galway delivering a car to a customer. The car i had organised to come back up in didnt show, so i ended up spending 35 quid to get the train back.

Whats more, we made a loss on that car. I've sat on a train for the last 4 hours full of shams and screaming babies, for the purpose of delivering a car we made a loss on.

Service? What service.

Farls

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Just back from Galway delivering a car to a customer. The car i had organised to come back up in didnt show, so i ended up spending 35 quid to get the train back.

Whats more, we made a loss on that car. I've sat on a train for the last 4 hours full of shams and screaming babies, for the purpose of delivering a car we made a loss on.

Service? What service.

I think the problem is your amungst a minority that is only getting smaller drummer. Hats off though for what sounds like a fantastic service, the kind we should get more often.

PauloMN

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Just back from Galway delivering a car to a customer. The car i had organised to come back up in didnt show, so i ended up spending 35 quid to get the train back.

Whats more, we made a loss on that car. I've sat on a train for the last 4 hours full of shams and screaming babies, for the purpose of delivering a car we made a loss on.

Service? What service.

How many cars do you make a loss on?

If a lot, why are you in the business?

If not many, why post about that specific example?

Who had you organised the car to come back with i.e. who let you down?

Not being funny but every business has deals that aren't as good as others, and some even make a loss. I'm sure that experience yesterday is not typical of your average transaction though, otherwise you'd be insane to keep doing it.

Darragh29

The go to guy wrote: »

to be fair prices are dropping by the day in ireland as the economic situation gets worse, everytime someone loses there job the first thing they do is dump the car costing them 400 a month or what ever, so its an uphill battle for the dealers to always be the cheapest. and belive it or not the only money car dealers are making at the minute is on cars they are getting in at the ;new money' and selling them quick. I think your right, go to England and save the 4k. put 2k in your back pocket in case the gearbox or something goes and your laughing

Dump it where??? The dealer won't take it back...

Drummerboy08

PauloMN wrote: »

How many cars do you make a loss on?

If a lot, why are you in the business?

If not many, why post about that specific example?

Who had you organised the car to come back with i.e. who let you down?

Not being funny but every business has deals that aren't as good as others, and some even make a loss. I'm sure that experience yesterday is not typical of your average transaction though, otherwise you'd be insane to keep doing it.

We make a loss on several cars - due to the fact the buyback on vehicles we have coming back was set three/four years ago, so is way too high now. Would you rather we advertised that car at standing price i.e. 16k, or do what you ask of all dealers, reduce the price and take the loss? Theres no winning with some people. :rolleyes:

The car i had organised to come back in, was due back to us, but the driver was off sick, but regardless of that, i still drove to Galway to deliver it, something that didnt have to be done.

I have done it with several cars in the past also, to Athlone, Kilkenny to name a few.