Horse freaks out when ramp of horsebox goes up. Thoughts appreciated!

ell

Hello,

A friend of mine has a 4yo quarter horse with a retained testicle who she needs to get to the vets to geld. Horse last travelled in box as a weanling 3.5years ago, all fine. Since then, horse is happy to load and stay in box, but completely freaks the moment back ramp goes up, or owner tries to put bar up behind his rump. Also, great to pick up hind feet when in yard, but not great to do this when in stable. Claustraphobnic? The odd leadership lesson - backup in arena not good sometimes.

Anyone sucessfully dealt with this before or have any ideas? Please PM if you want more details.

She has a few more ideas, but any feedback appreciated. PM if you want

Thanks xx.

ecaf

I'm no expert, but could someone stay in box while ramp is being closed with a few nuts / carrots in a bucket. Talk and calm him down a little.

We had a yearling in the yard being brought off to another yard, she was nervous to load but we coaxed her in with a bucket.
Was fine when loaded, but the owner went to check on the mare and the yearling took a fit in the box jumping around the place (she was tied).
I told them to get going quickly because usually the motion of the box settles them. They did that and when they got to the gate I checked but she was much more settled.

Could it be the noise of the ramp closing, or maybe it banged off him last time he was loaded?
Anyway if you try the bucket trick and be ready to move off straight away. If he isn't settled in a short distance then turn back, but from what I have seen most concentrate on standing while the box is moving, therefore they don't have time to jump around.

The vet could always call out??? I'm not sure about the retained testicle part, but normal castrations are done in the yard a lot of the time.

The other thing that came into my mind was a twitch - you know the thing that goes around their top lip, if you were to squeeze it tightly while the ramp is being closed, they are busy thinking about the annoyance of that for a few minutes, and then get out of the box and drive off.

ell

thanks ecaf, appreciated

convert

How would the horse react if there was no partition in the box? If he had more space in the box he may not react as badly?

It could be due to the 'darkness' of the box when the ramp is closed. Have you tried leaving the door over the front ramp open when you're closing the back ramp? Or maybe the jockey door? (just make sure the breast bar is up before you open the jockey door, incase he decides to try escape through it!)

His anxiety could be due to a bad experience, so closing the ramp up slowly may help, and also being extra careful that his heels aren't caught in it. As kick-on said, feed, re-assurance and twitch may all help.


Also, if you had another well-travelled horse or pony too put in the box with him, it may help.

ell

Thanks convert.

The owner currently has no partition in the box as it was too dangerous to have it there.

I think they tried the front window open, but have asked her to see if it is claustraphobic to see what he's like in a stable with both top & bottom door shut.

Yep agree little by little with ramp, but currently cant even get it 1 inch off ground. I think could be useful to stand horse beside horsebox and then pracise putting ramp up & down to get him used to it.

feed & reassurance tried already, twitch is another idea

thanks again much appreciated

liah

Can you not put a partition back in and stick in another horse beside him? Why was the partition deemed too dangerous?

monflat

I suppose you need to know a bit more about the back ground of the horse how was it weaned and how did it spend its last few years alternating between stable and field or did it have to spend a prolonged length of time in the stable?

I would take it all back to basics and really the horse is not comfortable in the box at all its hit and miss - he will walk in but not stay there.

I would spend time walking the horse through the box and out the front ramp walking him up the ramp and stopping him where ever you choose to stop him not necessarily when he has all four feet in. Your controlling him not him controlling you

I would repeat this until he is real comfortable inside and then i would get helpers to walk around outside make noise etc as if similating normal movements outside the box
I would also see if there is anything wrong with the horse box has it a wooden floor ?

what is the ramp like? is it safe what sound does it make .
I would get the horse used to these sounds also
I think this is a major project not something that is fixable in a few days
Sedation may be necessary to get the horse not to flip out and take to vet & get op done and then spend time later to practice the ramplifting.

But once the horse has broken through pressure once he will always remember that all that he has to do is reverse back out real fast and the ramp will come down & he is free.

ownknee

Get him a friend like a goat, sheep, shetland pony. Many racehorses are very nervous when it comes to loading into a horsebox & when training but if you intorduce another animal like I've mentioned he might calm down. It's the fear of the unknown, while he may have loaded ok before he gets a bit nervous now.
The only other thing she could try is loading him in & out everyday, twice a day to get him used to it. But if he is highly strung & has problems training indoor or outdoor a goat, sheep or shetland is the way to go. For some reason they seem to calm horses down that are a bit jittery.Try it & see.

Hobbidance

I do like your idea of standing him behind the box and raising the ramp a few times. Normally ramps springs make a loud 'tong tong tong' noise or squeak, you know it's the noise if he tenses and his ears turn back and forth quickly or he snorts.

I dont agree with not having the partition in, if you cant get him to stand in the box relaxed with the bar behind him then i really do not advise travelling him. If he freaks out when the ramps go up and he's not used to standing in the partition then when the ramp comes down he could seriously hurt himself or someone else if there's no partition to stop him jumping back onto the ramp as it comes down.

What I do when training all young horses in boxes, especially if they're big is have them stand in it till they relax. Then add the ramp.

I actually did have a 16hh heavy cob with 'claustrophoic' tendancies as people liked to call it but she was just never given the time to see that there wasnt much of a big deal. This horse had a wealth of problems though so this is just the longest case I've ever had of a young in-experienced horse being scared of the box altogether. (She was brought down wild off a mountain at 3, her previous owners rescued her at 1 and a half from an abusive male and left her run free. She had head-shyness, fear of men, fear of boxes, no traffic exposure, no social tendancies, etc. Yet she went on to be a beautiful all rounder for a young lady who owned a single horse box)

I rode her till she was nicely calm and relatively tired but not so exhausted that she might be stubborn and so she wasn't firing all cylinders to make it harder all round. We had problems for her even stepping on ramps. First we had to by hand walk her up the ramp lifting her front legs and waiting for the rest of the way letting her sniff and absorb it all. Took about 40 mins but may i remind you she was terrified of boxes.

After about 20 mins of walking her behind my bomb proof stress free pony and some treats she got over stepping on the ramp and walking into the box, that was solved in a day. Then to get her over being stood in the box we first left both her and the pony in the box for an hour (supervised) She was sweatting for the first 20 mins and constantly struggling (stepping back and forward, biting her rope, neighing, stomping, shaking her head) but we had one person standing on the ramp (more behind the pony in case the cob lashed out) and one on the front ramp. Any time she lent back on the bar the person behind would tap her rump (again standing to the side) and calmly but assertively say 'stand up' or 'easy' whatever you're horse responds to. Same for the front ramp. A tap on her chest or small push on her nose would stop her leaning forward. Soon she started to relax and even nibbled some hay. (A great sign horse generally wont eat when panicing). Then after about and hour we took them both out (pony first) and then let her have a break for 30mins in a paddock (or hand graze great wind down and best reward) Then we brought her back to the box without the pony, walked her in, stood her for a few mins each time, practicsed putting bars up and down asking her to back out and walk in again. For about 30mins then left her for the day.

Next day repeated the last excerise after her morning excerice and again in the afternoon after a lunge. She was comfortable with standing and we could leave the box 'unattended' (watching out of sight) and she would munch on hay and look out the door.

Next day walked her in stodd her in the box and then with my sister at her head with her hand closed around some feed so the horse was focused on her we calmly as you go closed the ramp and locked it quickly. Remember not to slam it closed or rush it. She stepped around for a while inside the box but the front ramp was still down and she was given some feed as a distraction and after a few mins settled down again. Then we left her there for 5 mins. Dropped the ramp again with someone at her head (PLEASE stand to the side when opporating the ramp, too many injuries have happened to people when horses get upset and kick the ramp while someones behind it) waited till she stood still again and closed it. Dropped it 5 mins later again and walked in the pony. Closed it. Closed the front ramp and went for a drive to the shops.

From then on we just made sure when ever we were loading her to make sure it wasnt too fussy. If we were late for a show we'd take time to calmly walk her in. Too many people seem to always make things worse. I think everything can be achieved with two calm, assertive people who know what they're doing. Soon she got so used to it that she would just stand in there. Even if some little urchin forgot to put up the bar at a show and she was just tied by the halter.

Good luck and remember 1. Keep yourself safe!! Wear hats in case you get knocked over. 2. Patience is best and gets the job done quicker. 3. Never raise your voice. Keep your voice loud, calm, and assertive at all times. So they don't think they're going to be struck or in case the sudden loud noise scares them. 4. If someone tries to help you by grabbing lunge ropes and sticks politely decline and explain that you're perfectly capable of training your own horse.

If you have any more questions I'll be glad to help. I train alot of problem horses Good Luck

ell

Monflat, ownknee, & hobbidance, thanks very much, all good ideas. I will pass on all your comments to the owner. Hobbidance, sorry for being nosy! but could you tell me a bit more the kind of stuff/horses you do/work with in kerry? You have me intrigued (pm if you like)