Question about house for sale in Dublin. Owner in Oz.

Sammag

G'Day :cool:

I have a house on the market back home in Dublin at the moment.
It's in a good area, South-side, very desirable and close to transport, a 'certain' large shopping centre, great schools etc.

The asking price when it went on the market 4/5 or so months ago was 675K (recommended by the selling agents). We got an offer a few weeks back in the region of the low 500's. After a week or so of serious thought I decided to accept. When the buyer was told this, he dropped the offer by a further 100K to now the low 400's. BTW The house is now on the market, as of a week ago in the high 500's

Question - is this person a total chancer or has it become that crap at home this offer will seem like a good idea in 3 weeks time?

Also, what's the rental market like now at home?

Cheers!

sickpuppy32

both the housing market and rental markets have gone down the toilet - country is on the verge of been taken over by the IMF - read a paper man!

Sammag

sickpuppy32 wrote: »

both the housing market and rental markets have gone down the toilet - country is on the verge of been taken over by the IMF - read a paper man!

Look honestly no offence mate, thank you for taking the time to reply but in this instance I'm really not looking for sarcastic answers, I've been through the ringer with this house and have fallen out badly with my only sibling over it who owns 50%. It's caused a great deal of stress in my life for the past few months. I am in no mood for 'read the papers man' unhelpful replies. BTW, I am a woman, not a man. I am also very aware of the diabolical current housing situation at home. However I am dealing with my sibling in Dublin (via solicitor now) who is very unrealistic in what the house should fetch and in turn I am concerned I will loose everything because of this.

Thanks again Sickpuppy for your replies.
If anyone else has any more helpful views relevant to my original question, I'd be very grateful.

Cheers.

sickpuppy32

man/dude/girl/chick whatever!
dont get ur knickers in a twist - its 5am in the morning and i'm on the nightshift so sorry for not giving you the complete and full history of the irish economy and how FF have screwed it all up. Go to daft .ie, they said last week that the rental market is flooded and hence "down the toilet", its common knowlege the housing market is also "down the toilet" and wont start recovering for another couple of years. Your best option is to see if you can rent it out for a few years but just be hopeful to get a rent that pays the mortgage. If you had been reading the paper online for the last few months you would have known this.

ballooba

Time will prove you right regarding the realistic value of the house. Sounds like the bidder is being a bit cheeky. Offers are scarce at the moment though I would think.

Victor

The offeror is playing a shrewd game, but if there is nobody else in the market for that house, you have little choice. The house is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. Consider getting the sibling to buy it from you. A "put up or shut up" if you will.

If it is where I think you are hinting at, some properties are on the market for 50% more than others that seem similar.

Rental market is considered weak.

Sammag

Victor wrote: »

The offeror is playing a shrewd game, but if there is nobody else in the market for that house, you have little choice. The house is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. Consider getting the sibling to buy it from you. A "put up or shut up" if you will.

If it is where I think you are hinting at, some properties are on the market for 50% more than others that seem similar.

Rental market is considered weak.

Thanks. Yes, I've put two very good and very fair offers to my sibling to buy me out but they're having none of it. They want their cake and to eat it - aka - won't take out a loan to pay me out nor will they reduce the house price to a realistic amount (due to head-in-sand ignorance, greed and stubbornness). I am worried we're losing possible sales because of it. I know nearly for certain we could have sold it a few weeks back it the asking/highest acceptable offer price was more realistic.

My sibling and executor (close friend of sibling who is being influenced in final decision by sibling) of the estate is calling all the shots as I am based out here in Oz.

jimmycrackcorm

Sammag wrote: »

Thanks. Yes, I've put two very good and very fair offers to my sibling to buy me out but they're having none of it. They want their cake and to eat it - aka - won't take out a loan to pay me out nor will they reduce the house price to a realistic amount (due to head-in-sand ignorance, greed and stubbornness). I am worried we're losing possible sales because of it. I know nearly for certain we could have sold it a few weeks back it the asking/highest acceptable offer price was more realistic.

My sibling and executor (close friend of sibling who is being influenced in final decision by sibling) of the estate is calling all the shots as I am based out here in Oz.

Is it that your sibling is living in the house and perhaps it suits him not to sell? You may need to go to court to force a sale.

ascottdub

Your low offereer is doing exactly what I intend to start doing next week. It's a buyers market and low bids are better than no bids.
However, personally I wouldn't go 100K less when you accepted.
Sorry to hear sibling is being so stubborn.

Are they living in the clouds or just don't want to face facts? I live Northside but work beside the SC you speak off, and properties are dropping in price, no doubt about it.

I'll be staying Northside though. Good Luck, and try to remember that a sibling is still a sibling at the end of the day.
Could the close friend invloved talk to them for you??

wtf-09

Sammag wrote: »

G'Day :cool:

I have a house on the market back home in Dublin at the moment.
It's in a good area, South-side, very desirable and close to transport, a 'certain' large shopping centre, great schools etc.

The asking price when it went on the market 4/5 or so months ago was 675K (recommended by the selling agents). We got an offer a few weeks back in the region of the low 500's. After a week or so of serious thought I decided to accept. When the buyer was told this, he dropped the offer by a further 100K to now the low 400's. BTW The house is now on the market, as of a week ago in the high 500's

Question - is this person a total chancer or has it become that crap at home this offer will seem like a good idea in 3 weeks time?

Also, what's the rental market like now at home?

Cheers!

Ireland is pretty unstable at the moment. That means no-one knows which way things are going to go, either up or down. Very few people are in safe employment right now and with pension levys and possible tax rises on the way, even if poeple could get a mortgage, they probably couldn't meet the mortgage repayments with all the other expenes.

If you wait another year or so, your property might only be worth 300k. Hardly anyone is buying at the moment.

I guess you know the saying, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Ask yourself is it better to have 500k in your pocket this year or whatever price ensures you walk away without negative equity or else wait until next year and walk away with a couple hundred grand negative equity.

As for your estate agency, obviously they are looking at a percentage share of the selling price so they have a vested interest in selling at a high price.

My opinion is if you you can get 475 for your property from the bidder after negotiation, and can walk away without negative equity, given the way the country is heading under FF, you are a lucky guy. If you are not interested in accepting 475k or thereabouts, you probably shouldnt sell, period.

Sammag

Thanks for the replies

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Is it that your sibling is living in the house and perhaps it suits him not to sell? You may need to go to court to force a sale.

Hi - no, they're not living in the house at all. It was my mother's house who passed away last year. It's sitting vacant.

ascottdub wrote: »

Your low offereer is doing exactly what I intend to start doing next week. It's a buyers market and low bids are better than no bids.
However, personally I wouldn't go 100K less when you accepted.
Sorry to hear sibling is being so stubborn.

Are they living in the clouds or just don't want to face facts? I live Northside but work beside the SC you speak off, and properties are dropping in price, no doubt about it.

I'll be staying Northside though. Good Luck, and try to remember that a sibling is still a sibling at the end of the day.
Could the close friend involved talk to them for you??

I decided to employ a solicitor to represent me a few weeks back. I found him a bit useless TBH initially but this week he seems to have upped his game a tad by sending a good, persuasive letter to the solicitor looking after the house.

The biggest problem for me is; the executor, my sibling and this estate solicitor are very close so it's always been a case of 'them again me' a little.
My sibling is finding it very difficult to accept the house is not worth what it was 3 years ago and for months just refused to drop the sale price and in turn we missed out on buyers, but as they were influencing the person with the 'final say' - aka the executor, they had full rein to do what suited them. Hence why I engaged a solicitor on my behalf - to stop this (somewhat illegal) malarky... My 50% say was being totally ignored. It was like I didn't exist - as you can imagine, very frustrating, esp. being located here so far away in Oz.

I spoke with the estate agents last night, who assured me this buyer is acting the maggot, from what they said I feel he sounds like a tosser who's only interested in wasting people's time. Whilst am very eager to sell the house, I'm not giving it away esp. to some prat who would probably have pulled out of the sale at the last minute, if the estate agent's fears were correct.

I have been assured the house is worth more than the very low 400's and we'll stick it out a while longer. Seemingly also, my sibling (and executor) is starting to accept reality, so moving forward I have agreed with agent that we need to move much faster if an offer is put on the table. I am very willing to compromise on a fair price, given the current market and I have been assured houses are still selling. I'm just not totally giving it away. I'll face the god-awful prospect of renting it (an area I did not want to go into) if all else fails.
3 new viewings tonight with cash buyers so I keep my fingers crossed.

Sammag

wtf-09 wrote: »

If you wait another year or so, your property might only be worth 300k. Hardly anyone is buying at the moment.

I agree - this is one of my biggest concerns. I need the money from this house quickly and I have accepted my share will be way less than I originally had hoped.
I wanted to make sure I am not shooting myself in the foot by not accepting this 425K offer - so I was seriously considering it.
However, from hearing what this bloke was saying, I feel if we accepted, he'd probably decide to lower it again as he'd think we were desperate.

wtf-09 wrote: »

My opinion is if you you can get 475 for your property from the bidder after negotiation, and can walk away without negative equity, given the way the country is heading under FF, you are a lucky guy. If you are not interested in accepting 475k or thereabouts, you probably shouldn't sell, period.

I was also considering asking for an increase to 475K, but again, after last night's call, I highly doubt he'd come to the party.
Some of the things he was commenting on in regards to the house were farcical! I was slack-jawed listening to them. He sounded like a used car salesman.
The estate agent is making it clear to all interested parties that even with the sale price being what it is, we are very open to offers.
So I'm happy to proceed with that for the moment and re-assess if needed in a few weeks time.

The executor in this situation has the final say on what price is accepted but they must go off the estate agents advice on that area and they have assured me 420K is too low at the moment for this property, they are still selling houses nearby of similar standard and size for more. Based on this stipulation, even if I wanted to accept the 420K my sibling and the executor wouldn't and my view would in essence, would be worthless.

The_Conductor

Sammag wrote: »

I decided to employ a solicitor to represent me a few weeks back. I found him a bit useless TBH initially but this week he seems to have upped his game a tad by sending a good, persuasive letter to the solicitor looking after the house.

Good start. I'd almost be inclined to try to incentivise the solicitor- perhaps a bonus on a sliding scale the longer it takes to sell the property?

Sammag wrote: »

The biggest problem for me is; the executor, my sibling and this estate solicitor are very close so it's always been a case of 'them again me' a little.

You have to move out of this mindset- you have started to take proactive action by sorting your own solicitor (which to be quite honest you should have done from the outset).

Sammag wrote: »

My sibling is finding it very difficult to accept the house is not worth what it was 3 years ago and for months just refused to drop the sale price and in turn we missed out on buyers, but as they were influencing the person with the 'final say' - aka the executor, they had full rein to do what suited them. Hence why I engaged a solicitor on my behalf - to stop this (somewhat illegal) malarky... My 50% say was being totally ignored. It was like I didn't exist - as you can imagine, very frustrating, esp. being located here so far away in Oz.

Its not illegal. You did not enforce your rights, he/she did. Unfortunate, but it happens every day of the week.

Sammag wrote: »

I spoke with the estate agents last night, who assured me this buyer is acting the maggot, from what they said I feel he sounds like a tosser who's only interested in wasting people's time. Whilst am very eager to sell the house, I'm not giving it away esp. to some prat who would probably have pulled out of the sale at the last minute, if the estate agent's fears were correct.

Do not believe a word out of an estate agents mouth.
Property is slowly moving again- but in the main its the First Time Buyer market that has traction- no other market segments. Its improved somewhat since the first week in December- but the simple reality is the economic prognosis here is appalling- there is talk of unemployment hitting 15%, government defaults on sovereign debt, etc. People do not want to borrow if at all possible, banks do not want to lend, and buyers, where they do exist, are insistent on getting the maximum possible value for their money. It is quite normal to go in with an offer and then reduce it- estate agents hate it- as it eats into their commission (the little they are earning)- but its nothing out of the ordinary these days. Sure- he may pullout at the last minute- but its a concern about any purchaser these days. I'd have more faith in a potential buyer who aggressively sought a discount, than I would in someone who blindly offered asking.......

Sammag wrote: »

I have been assured the house is worth more than the very low 400's and we'll stick it out a while longer.

By whom? Everything is worth what its purchaser is willing to pay for it (as Publius Sirus observed over 2000 years ago). If you have only a single interested party- and they are only interested in purchasing at 400k- thats the value of the property. It may gall us to think that its fallen by 40% (or whatever) but its reality. An observation- RTE news report an average 36% fall in house prices in Northern Ireland over the last year. Their property boom was nowhere near as entrenched as ours........

Sammag wrote: »

Seemingly also, my sibling (and executor) is starting to accept reality, so moving forward I have agreed with agent that we need to move much faster if an offer is put on the table. I am very willing to compromise on a fair price, given the current market and I have been assured houses are still selling.

Houses are selling- if they are perceived to be priced fairly. If the property has not sold- buyers perceive it to be overpriced. Simple as. When I say houses are selling- it can take months- and a ridiculous amount of work, to sell them. In the interim you are paying for lighting and heating along with cleaning to make sure it looks its best......

Sammag wrote: »

I'm just not totally giving it away. I'll face the god-awful prospect of renting it (an area I did not want to go into) if all else fails. 3 new viewings tonight with cash buyers so I keep my fingers crossed.

As you are non-resident for tax purposes, any potential tenants would have to withold holding tax and forward it to the Revenue Commissioners- and you would have to furnish a formal annual tax return here. Its messy- but doable. You face potentially loosing up to 40% of your rental income (as presumably you have only minimal costs you can offset against the income).

Re: cash buyers- in the 400-500k market range- they do not exist anymore- its a falacy.

luckat

Sammag, as sickpuppy32 suggests, go to http://www.daft.ie and search for houses in the same area and of the same type, and you'll get an idea of what houses are selling for.

People in Ireland are frankly terrified at the moment. Factories and old-established businesses and Celtic Tiger successes are closing by the day, with hundreds of jobs lost each time. Scan the front pages of The Irish Times (http://www.irishtimes.ie), the Irish Independent (http://www.independent.ie) and the Evening Herald (http://www.herald.ie) every day and you'll get an idea of the atmosphere here.

My own house is in a nice Dublin area, and at the top of the market - maybe, ohh, 18 months ago - my next-door neighbours sold their house for €880,000. A few months back I was considering moving and called two estate agents to ask for a valuation; they said I could expect from €600,000 to €750,000.

People just aren't buying. Houses are sitting on the market for months. Look at http://irishpropertywatch.com and you'll see the way prices are dropping.

When you have a real handle on the state of affairs in the property market you'll be in a better situation to negotiate calmly with your sibling, the solicitor and any possible buyers.

(Incidentally, I find the Dutch auction behaviour of your would-be buyer contemptible.)

uncanny

luckat wrote: »

Sammag, as sickpuppy32 suggests, go to http://www.daft.ie and search for houses in the same area and of the same type, and you'll get an idea of what houses are selling for.

No, you won't.

You'll have a list of a whole load of vastly overpriced properties. Then go back in three months and look at them all still sitting there and more besides. Wash, rinse repeat.

The Irish property market collapsed in mid 2006. The majority of business transacted since then was already committed to before the bubble burst, as the builders/developers had a two year pipleline in situ.

Once that pipeline ran dry in mid 2008 the market was stone dead and has remained so.

That house you're trying to sell will be worth 20-30% of it's peak value when the dust settles. It's up to you to decide how far down you want to ride the crash.

johnnyskeleton

Victor wrote: »

If it is where I think you are hinting at, some properties are on the market for 50% more than others that seem similar

That narrows it down to....Ireland, most of the UK, bulgaria, Florida, Detroit....

Seriously, how can everyone know where this is?

South Dublin, near a shopping centre, houses overpriced by 50%? Tallaght, Rathmines, Dundrum, Stillorgan, Dun Laoighre, Blackrock Clondalkin?

Very desirable and near transport? That takes out Clondalkin & Stillorgan (& tallaght & dundrum depending on your standards of desirable).