Alteration to approved plans.

BoozyBabe

Hi all,
Looking for your opinions & hope I'm not breaking any rules by doing this.
I apologise in advance if I am.

Originally, when we submitted our plans, the gable of our conservatory looked like this. (OrigPlan.jpg)
& I was hoping to achieve the effect as shown in (001.jpg)

As you will approach our house, you will see it slightly on a hill to your North-East. You will see the front & the gable side on which the conservatory is located.
These windows are South Facing
No other houses can be seen from where our house will be built.
The conservatory will look into a field of cows.
There is no through road past our house, so the only people who will ever me on that road will be our visitors, or our burglars!!!

Further Information was requested from us, & in this document, we got the following point:-

Policy RD9 of the County Development Plan 2007-2013 states,
“Fenestration should have a vertical emphasis. Where it is proposed to employ large horizontal windows, picture windows or patio doors, these should be located on elevations not visible from the public domain”.

The applicant shall submit revised structural drawings indicating;

The ‘feature’ windows on the side elevation on the attached dining room to be ‘squared’ or omitted in favour of two single windows of vertical proportions.

We revised our plans in order to get them passed, resulting in our conservatory looking like (FIPlan.jpg)

Now, the problem:-
I feel REALLY REALLY strongly about the original layout of the windows. I only intend on building my house once, I intend on living in this house for the rest of my life, & therefore looking out through those windows for the rest of my life.

I really want to build those windows as stated in the original plans.
What's my best way to do this?

We've currently to wait 5 weeks before any work can commence, & at that stage we've to sort out all the site clearance, drainage work before building can commence.
Can we submit to ammend the approved plans to include the revised window, & yet continue with our site clearance in 5 weeks while this is being processed, or would all work need to cease while this was in progress?
Could we build the windows & then seek retention permission?

I know of atleast 2 houses, built in the last couple of years in an approx 10 mile radius of our house, with these exact windows.
How do our original windows NOT have a vertical emphasis?
I would be prepard to appeal this decision the whole way as far as a demolition order being requested & appealing this to An bord Pleanala.

I really want to do this the appropriate way, so I really would appreciate any advice. Sorry the post is so long, but I wanted to be as clear as possible.
Thanks,
BB

Slig

If you have an engineer or architect signing off on the work (cert of substantial compliance with planning permission and building regulations) then ask them their opinion. It will eventually be them taking the risk.

It can be argued that it would be ok because they are not on the front elevation but they, in particular, were singled out as an issue by the planning authority.

There is no point arguing(?) that somebody else has been granted with these windows. Precident in rural locations is not accepted by planners

RKQ

In simple legal terms a Grant of Permission is a contract between the Applicant and the Council. The Applicant agrees to build the structure as shown on the drawings and the Council agrees to allow the Applicant to build that structure only.

Any change to that structure invalidates the contract and a new contract is required.

Re-apply for Planning Permission for any changes prior to construction.
I do not advocate a retention application. Everyone must comply with the law of the land and I'd never advise otherwise.

Do not flout the Law

BoozyBabe

Slig wrote: »

but they, in particular, were singled out as an issue by the planning authority.

The issue of us not providing proof that we had permission to maintain the hedgerows that WE already own, was also singled out as an issue by the same planning authority!!!

I could say lots about them, but I suppose that'd be better left for the planning permission gripes thread!!!

Penn

If it was stated as part of your planning that you can't have those windows, your engineer or architect won't be able to sign off on the building and say it complies with planning. You could go for retention, but I'd say your best bet would be to contact your architect/engineer, get their opinion and maybe get them to organise a meeting with a planner and outline your views.

Once you're upfront with them and give good reason why you want them, perhaps bring photos of similar types like the one you posted here, and maybe some pictures of the ones in the area (as Slig said, precident in rural locations is usually not accepted by planners, but it could go towards helping show how these windows are more befitting for your design and blend in well with the surrounding area), they may be more likely to allow them than if you just build them anyway and go for retention

Technophobe

Hi

Just to add, I had a very similar issue whereby the council would not allow us a dormer window at the front of the dwelling so we inserted skylights instead and eventually got our permission....Lo and behold another new build beside us gets permission with dormer windows everywhere on the front.....

So we have commenced our build and are at the same time applying for a change to allow us add the dormer (wish me luck:D)....

So, you can go that route and not get held up too much on getting started with the build....

BoozyBabe

Oh, that's great to hear Technophobe.
So, basically, you can work away at your house up until the point of the dormer windows while you wait for them to process your app.

So what if they refuse you? Do you just continue with your original permission as it was?

Have you submitted a new full permission app, or just a change?
Like, are they potentially evaluating your entire plans again & so could now decide they don't like your front porch, or will they just be looking at your dormer windows request?

Thanks for posting

EDIT:- Oh, & btw, the VERY best of luck!!! I'm not actually sure if I could stomach dealing with those folks again. but I suppose, once I knew what I've been granted already is secure, it would make the process of dealing with them slightly less infuriating!

Slig

It wouldnt be a full planning application and even if they did decide to grant your new windows but refuse, for example, a porch you can still revert back to the original granted design.

I know how frustrating dealing with some planners can be (dont know why I used the word some) but it really is important to build the house that you get planning permission for.
If we dont then you are just contributing to the unauthorised development problem.

The planning process is far from perfect but it sometimes has a sort of uniformity and we have to work to that. Its unfortunate the situation that you are in but its yet another example of a planner not putting any thought into their decision. The house may mean alot to you but it just doesnt matter to them. The quote you were given is a generic quote from any countys development plan, the windows you had were just as vertically emphasised as the ones you have on it now.

Personally I dont believe that the planners should have any say on the design of a building, they arent designers and have no qualification or experience in design. I know this doesnt help you but.......

RKQ

Slig wrote: »

Personally I dont believe that the planners should have any say on the design of a building, they arent designers and have no qualification or experience in design.

Well said Slig, I'd agree with you.
BoozyBabe re-apply once you receive the final Grant of Permission - hope it works out for you.

Technophobe

Hey Boozybabe


"Oh, that's great to hear Technophobe.
So, basically, you can work away at your house up until the point of the dormer windows while you wait for them to process your app."

Yes you can continue to work away until you get to the stage where you need to know the decision to allow you do something. But 2 months will fly by in terms of things to do when building anyway...trust me:)



"So what if they refuse you? Do you just continue with your original permission as it was?"

Suppose so:rolleyes:

"Have you submitted a new full permission app, or just a change?
Like, are they potentially evaluating your entire plans again & so could now decide they don't like your front porch, or will they just be looking at your dormer windows request?"

Yea as the lads say below it's just a change request to an already granted permission, they can't turn around and take away the original grant.....
Hope this helps..and good luck...


"Thanks for posting"

No problem:)

"EDIT:- Oh, & btw, the VERY best of luck!!! I'm not actually sure if I could stomach dealing with those folks again. but I suppose, once I knew what I've been granted already is secure, it would make the process of dealing with them slightly less infuriating!"

Thanks, decision due mid March...