How long does it take for a plodder to get to Boston?

Running Bing

Just looked at the video of Thursdays mile race and it turns out the splits where a bit different than I thought (The ones I posted where taken off sportstrack from the Garmin). Actual splits were:

1. 1.18
2. 1.26
3. 1.26
4. 1.16

Fvck me that 2nd and 3rd lap were slow:eek:

Funnily I actually feel more upbeat about the race after seeing that. The first and last laps are right were I want them but the splits for the other two are just silly!

On the 10x400 workout I did the Sunday before the race my slowest 400 was 1.24 and most of the laps were around 1.20 so I definitely think Im capable of better than 1.26 (I do interval workouts in training at 1.30 pace ffs).

Have another mile race on Wednesday so will have to try to keep a quicker tempo on that second lap.

cfitz

Are your training sessions based around a specific race target?

Or does Daniels' programme offer any predictions on performance based on the times you can hit in the prescribed sessions?

Running Bing

cfitz wrote: »

Are your training sessions based around a specific race target?

Or does Daniels' programme offer any predictions on performance based on the times you can hit in the prescribed sessions?

Daniels training paces are based on past performances.

I know that in general it is notoriously difficult to judge race performance from paces in training but 1.20 400's generally feel comfortable for me in training so its disappointing to see two 1.26 laps during a race.

I knew I got too relaxed on the second lap and let the pace drop too much, Im just surprised at the amount I let it drop.

cfitz

I think it's something that probably happens a lot of people. At least you'll know to put in a strong middle 800 this time round.

shels4ever

Running Bing wrote: »

Just looked at the video of Thursdays mile race and it turns out the splits where a bit different than I thought (The ones I posted where taken off sportstrack from the Garmin). Actual splits were:

1. 1.18
2. 1.26
3. 1.26
4. 1.16

Fvck me that 2nd and 3rd lap were slow:eek:

Funnily I actually feel more upbeat about the race after seeing that. The first and last laps are right were I want them but the splits for the other two are just silly!

On the 10x400 workout I did the Sunday before the race my slowest 400 was 1.24 and most of the laps were around 1.20 so I definitely think Im capable of better than 1.26 (I do interval workouts in training at 1.30 pace ffs).

Have another mile race on Wednesday so will have to try to keep a quicker tempo on that second lap.

Where is your race this wed? I always found the 1mile/1500m a hard event very easy to run too hard over the first 600m , if you can bang out 4 X 1:20's that would be good running but can be hard not to get dragged into the race in the early part. I'm find learning to run fast(er) a hard thign myself .

Running Bing

shels4ever wrote: »

Where is your race this wed? I always found the 1mile/1500m a hard event very easy to run too hard over the first 600m , if you can bang out 4 X 1:20's that would be good running but can be hard not to get dragged into the race in the early part. I'm find learning to run fast(er) a hard thign myself .

Graded meets in Irishtown shels.

I ran the last one by feel so maybe if I pay a bit more attention to splits/pacing this time it could help.

shels4ever

Running Bing wrote: »

Graded meets in Irishtown shels.

I ran the last one by feel so maybe if I pay a bit more attention to splits/pacing this time it could help.

Might actually pop down to this myself, wont be racing but might come to watch...

Running Bing

Tuesday:4 miles easy. 9.10 min/mile. Av HR 72%.


Legs still a bit sore and stiff:rolleyes: Did nothing yesterday but said I would go for an easy four miles today just to get the legs moving and the blood flowing.

Once I got warmed up it didnt feel bad at all and it was quite a nice relaxed run.

Was a bit worried about the legs for tomorrows race but they seemed to be ok when they warmed up so Ill give it a lash:D

Running Bing

Ran the 1 mile in the graded meets last night. Every time I run on the track conditions seem to be perfect and last night was no exception.

Had been feeling awful the last few days (was thinking about skipping the race) and just as I thought all was well yesterday I did some stretching in the afternoon and my hamstrings and quads were still in bits:(

Strangely this probably worked out for the best as I decided to just enjoy the night and do my best and it took a lot of the pressure off. Was very surprised when I started my warm up that I was actually feeling really good and moving very well.

The race started a bit early (which meant a shortened warm-up) and as I stood on the start line I was surrounded by kids and I thought for a second "have I signed up for a junior race?". The presence of one or two older lads confirmed I was in the right place but I did think "this could get embarrassing":D

Race started at a good speed and I was boxed in which suited me tbh. Came through the first lap in 77 seconds. Made sure not to let the pace drop too much on lap two and reached the half way mark in a time of 2.39. So right on target and I just had to focus on not letting the pace drop on the third lap.

I tried to pick it up and managed to pass a runner. I reached the 1200m mark in 4:01 and I knew I had it. Passed two runners in the final 200m and crossed the line with a new pb of 5:16. I was absolutely thrilled with that. Felt very strong and comfortable the whole way and it was just a completely different experience to last week.


Was a brilliant night of racing, great atmosphere and now that I have achieved my goal I can relax a bit and just focus on enjoying the races. Would be nice to knock a few seconds off my 800 time and set a good 1500 time but Im not to hung up on that.

Food:Stomach didnt feel great before last Thursdays race and I think it was down to eating too much protein before the race. Just had a bagel with jam and brown rolls with some flora and a banana yesterday and felt this suited me much better.

Woddle

Congrats super time. You nearly make me want to knock the marathon on head and concentrate on track. Well done. Great job in flying the boards ac flag

cfitz

I watched your race on Wednesday, I thought you looked very smooth. Your training log has been very impressive, great steady progress throughout. Might be time for you to start looking for a group to train with that can bring you on even further. Also, your programme seems to work very well for you, are you considering using Daniels' methods after the (outdoor) track season also?

Running Bing

Woddle wrote: »

Congrats super time. You nearly make me want to knock the marathon on head and concentrate on track. Well done. Great job in flying the boards ac flag

Reckon the Marathon will be quality preparation for a bit of track next summer Woddle.

I watched your race on Wednesday, I thought you looked very smooth. Your training log has been very impressive, great steady progress throughout. Might be time for you to start looking for a group to train with that can bring you on even further. Also, your programme seems to work very well for you, are you considering using Daniels' methods after the (outdoor) track season also?

Thanks Cfitz.

Im planning to use Daniels Cross country programme over the winter, it has a lot of long tempo running and longer intervals and I reckon it is just what is required to improve my endurance. Thats my biggest weakness at the moment I think, Im going to up the mileage over the winter and focus on the longer cross country (and 5k/10k road) races to get me in good shape for next summer all going well.

A group would be handy alright (especially over the long winter) so I might try and sort something out.

Running Bing

Bit behind in my log:o

Thursday:5 miles. 8:44 min/mile. Av HR 78%.

Friday: Plan was to do a very easy speed session of 2x(2x200m+800m) but I felt absolutely awful on the 800m, completely energy drained and legs very sore, so decided to skip the second one.

1 mile warm-up

200:37
200:37
800:2.50

200:38
200:37

1mile warm down

Saturday: 5 miles. 8:20 min/mile. Av HR 73%.
Now thats how an easy run should feel! Felt great the whole way round and felt thoroughly refreshed afterwards. First time in over a week that I've felt good.

Sunday:10.3 miles. 8.09 min/mile. Av HR 76%.

Very nice Long run. Felt very strong the last couple of miles. Legs finally starting to feel good again.

Running Bing

Monday:

1 mile warm up
3x(2x200m with 200m jog+400m with 400m jog)
1 mile warm down

200: 37
200: 39 (had to swerve to avoid somebody)
400: 1:12

200: 37
200: 37
400: 1:12

200: 37
200: 37
400: 1:13

Nice to get a bit of quality faster running in again. Felt strong and very happy with my times.

Tuesday: 5 miles easy. 7:56 min/mile. Av HR 78%.

Starting to feel really good now, starting to think I might have one or two good races in me before the summer ends. Feeling very positive again.

cfitz

Running Bing wrote: »

Monday:

1 mile warm up
3x(2x200m with 200m jog+400m with 400m jog)
1 mile warm down

200: 37
200: 39 (had to swerve to avoid somebody)
400: 1:12

200: 37
200: 37
400: 1:12

200: 37
200: 37
400: 1:13

How come you're doing your 400s faster than your 200s??!!

ecoli

cfitz wrote: »

How come you're doing your 400s faster than your 200s??!!

Makes a valid point and looking back on your other sessions it seems that these 400ms are done just a little too fast you dont want to leave all work on your track. If you were going for speed quality work i reccomend that it the 200s that you look to increase the pace and bring the 400s back to 1.15+

Running Bing

cfitz wrote: »

How come you're doing your 400s faster than your 200s??!!

Sorry should've said in my post the reason why the 400's were quicker than the 200's was simply bad pacing.

Aim was 200's in 37 and 400's in 1.14. I was actually surprised at the 400's tbh (they were tough but relaxed and definitely not all out) but I will reel myself in a bit in future...like ecoli say's I dont want to leave it all on the track.

cfitz

Well it didn't seem to affect your session too badly as it was still very consistent - so I wouldn't worry about it too much. But if 37, 37, 74 is the aim of the session, then maybe that's what you should try to do.

Looks like maybe you could be going a little faster on both 200s and 400s though...

Running Bing

cfitz wrote: »

Well it didn't seem to affect your session too badly as it was still very consistent - so I wouldn't worry about it too much. But if 37, 37, 74 is the aim of the session, then maybe that's what you should try to do.

Looks like maybe you could be going a little faster on both 200s and 400s though...

Found the reason why the 400's were quicker.......


Wednesday:

1 mile warm up
3x(5 minutes @ tempo pace+2x200)
1 mile warm down

So for my tempo pace sections I did 6:20 min/mile, 6:26, 6:31.

200's went: 39, 36. 38, 37. 39, 39.

Was pretty tough going straight from the 5 minutes at tempo into a fast 200 but satisfied with this.

Thursday: Rest

Friday (the mystery of the quick 400's:P):

1 mile warm up
3x(2x200m+1 mile@tempo+200m)
1 mile warm down

Used the track up in UCD (as I did for the workout last week) and it was only when I started the second set I realised I was running longer than 200m:o

Times were:

Set 1: 40, 39, 6:42, 38
Set 2: 35, 38, 6:51, 34
Set 3: 42, 38, 6:41, 36

As can be seen when I started the 200's on the opposite side of the track for the second set (something I have not done before) I copped on it was less than 200m. Took me a while to realise what what was going on and it threw me so was pacing was a bit scruffy.

Not the neatest workout I have ever done (split wise) but got some good running in and happy with it.

So that explains why my 400 pace was quicker than my 200 pace, because I was running longer than 200m. Still point taken, it was faster than I should've been going and Ill have to watch out for that.


Saturday: 4.75 miles. 8:03 min/mile. Av HR 75%.

Sunday: 10.33 miles. 8:00 min/mile pace. Av HR 77%.

Running Bing

Monday:Rest day (not sure that was a good idea, maybe should've done something light)

Tuesday:4 miles. 8:45 min/mile. Av. HR 76%.

Running Bing

Ran the 800m at Morton last night. Plan was just to start quick and stay behind the main bunch but when I found out it was starting in lanes that messed my plan up. I didnt really have any pace in mind so being out on my own in a lane was not ideal.


I started way too fast and came through the first lap in I think 63/64 seconds. I knew that was suicide and I completely exploded on the second lap. Got passed by three or four runners before the 600 metre mark. Managed to claw two positions back on the final straight and finished in a time of 2:19 but I just never really felt comfortable in the race or got into a good rhythm.


Again its a pb and I should be happy with the time (I felt anything under 2:20 would be good) but Im just unhappy with the way I raced, very bad running on the first lap to leave myself in that position, the 800 is a tricky race to get right.

I feel I can go a bit faster by running a smarter race but there does'nt seem to be many more opportunities this summer so Ill have to make do with that;)

shels4ever

Running Bing wrote: »

Ran the 800m at Morton last night. Plan was just to start quick and stay behind the main bunch but when I found out it was starting in lanes that messed my plan up. I didnt really have any pace in mind so being out on my own in a lane was not ideal.


I started way too fast and came through the first lap in I think 63/64 seconds. I knew that was suicide and I completely exploded on the second lap. Got passed by three or four runners before the 600 metre mark. Managed to claw two positions back on the final straight and finished in a time of 2:19 but I just never really felt comfortable in the race or got into a good rhythm.


Again its a pb and I should be happy with the time (I felt anything under 2:20 would be good) but Im just unhappy with the way I raced, very bad running on the first lap to leave myself in that position, the 800 is a tricky race to get right.

I feel I can go a bit faster by running a smarter race but there does'nt seem to be many more opportunities this summer so Ill have to make do with that;)

800m running is a real learning curve , Lane starts can be hard are you do tend to go of hard to get into a good spot, but live and learn maybe a couple of second slower on the first lap would have helped but its still a hard event. I always found that the 3rd 200m was the make or break of the 800m for me.

Well done on the pb yet again

Running Bing

shels4ever wrote: »

800m running is a real learning curve , Lane starts can be hard are you do tend to go of hard to get into a good spot, but live and learn maybe a couple of second slower on the first lap would have helped but its still a hard event. I always found that the 3rd 200m was the make or break of the 800m for me.

Well done on the pb yet again

Yeah I reckon I ran splits of 64/75 which is way off. If I could run the first lap in 68/69 I reckon I could finish stronger. Disappointing as the first 800 I did I ran perfectly even splits:rolleyes:

Running Bing

Thursday:5 miles recovery. 8:46 pace. Av HR 75%. Felt pretty achey from the race and it was a struggle.

Friday: Had the following session planned for today:

3x(2x200m with 200m recovery+800m with 800m recovery+300m with 800m recovery)

But I just felt awful (legs still pretty sore and stiff) and after the first set I knew it was not a good idea so I finished with 6x200m.

200: 37
200: 40
800: 2:46
300: 55
200's: 40, 37, 38, 40, 39, 39


I tried a hard workout a couple of days after my last mile race and I couldnt do it either so Im thinking two days after a hard race might be too soon?

Im also not sure if these workouts are a bit too tough for somebody at my level at this stage of the season? I look at some of the workouts the elites do before races and they seem pretty light, stuff like a few 150's or 200's with one or two 300's or 400's thrown in, so maybe I should tone it down a bit (at the same time I dont want to use racing as an excuse to slack off and end up losing fitness).

tisnotover

Running Bing wrote: »

Thursday:5 miles recovery. 8:46 pace. Av HR 75%. Felt pretty achey from the race and it was a struggle.

Friday: Had the following session planned for today:

3x(2x200m with 200m recovery+800m with 800m recovery+300m with 800m recovery)

But I just felt awful (legs still pretty sore and stiff) and after the first set I knew it was not a good idea so I finished with 6x200m.

200: 37
200: 40
800: 2:46
300: 55
200's: 40, 37, 38, 40, 39, 39


I tried a hard workout a couple of days after my last mile race and I couldnt do it either so Im thinking two days after a hard race might be too soon?

Im also not sure if these workouts are a bit too tough for somebody at my level at this stage of the season? I look at some of the workouts the elites do before races and they seem pretty light, stuff like a few 150's or 200's with one or two 300's or 400's thrown in, so maybe I should tone it down a bit (at the same time I dont want to use racing as an excuse to slack off and end up losing fitness).

Well done on 800m PB the other nite RB!

On today's session it looks like its too soon after the race for ya, for this hard a workout. I know that for longer distances, say a 5mile race, then at least 5 days recovery (1day/mile) is recommended before a hard workout should be ran again.
A day's easy running mite have been better today as well (like yesterday or else a rest day)+then to attempt the harder workout tomorrow or day after?

Running Bing

tisnotover wrote: »

Well done on 800m PB the other nite RB!

On today's session it looks like its too soon after the race for ya, for this hard a workout. I know that for longer distances, say a 5mile race, then at least 5 days recovery (1day/mile) is recommended before a hard workout should be ran again.
A day's easy running mite have been better today as well (like yesterday or else a rest day)+then to attempt the harder workout tomorrow or day after?

Thanks tisnotover. Did the workout on Friday because I did a long run yesterday and a fast workout today so wanted to keep Saturday as an easy day but I think two days after was too soon and wont try it again unless Im feeling good.

Running Bing

Saturday: 5.5 miles. 7:39 min/mile. Av HR 78%. Said Id pick up the pace a bit on todays run. Felt very good and was an enjoyable run.

Sunday: Just over 10 miles. 8:25 min/mile pace. Av HR 76%. Did this run on the trails up in the Phoenix park and conditions underfoot we're pretty poor, spent most of the run dodging muck rather than running.........still strangely enjoyable:P

Monday:

1 mile warm up
3x(200m with 200m recovery jog+400m with 400m recovery jog)
1 mile warm down

Set 1: 37, 36, 1:14
Set2: 36, 35, 1:14
Set 3: 36, 36, 1:14

This is the sort of thing I like doing and was happy to keep the times nice and consistent.

cfitz

Running Bing wrote: »

Im also not sure if these workouts are a bit too tough for somebody at my level at this stage of the season? I look at some of the workouts the elites do before races and they seem pretty light, stuff like a few 150's or 200's with one or two 300's or 400's thrown in, so maybe I should tone it down a bit (at the same time I dont want to use racing as an excuse to slack off and end up losing fitness).

Does Daniels offer any advice about how to schedule your racing? I've a friend running at a quite high level and for the past 6 weeks or so, he's been doing very few tough sessions but racing about twice a week and he's still flying. My coach had me doing two sessions at 3k pace with very short recovery and one long hard run for the early months of track season, then I was told to replace one of the sessions with a steady hill run for a few weeks, then as racing season arrived the remaining 3k pace session was switched with fast 300s with 3 minute recovery. On weeks when I'm racing I try to keep things reasonably light coming up to the race. All that said, I think you should see what JD has to say about it seen as the rest of his methods are working well for you.

Running Bing

cfitz wrote: »

Does Daniels offer any advice about how to schedule your racing? I've a friend running at a quite high level and for the past 6 weeks or so, he's been doing very few tough sessions but racing about twice a week and he's still flying. My coach had me doing two sessions at 3k pace with very short recovery and one long hard run for the early months of track season, then I was told to replace one of the sessions with a steady hill run for a few weeks, then as racing season arrived the remaining 3k pace session was switched with fast 300s with 3 minute recovery. On weeks when I'm racing I try to keep things reasonably light coming up to the race. All that said, I think you should see what JD has to say about it seen as the rest of his methods are working well for you.

He seems to advocate the use of judgement for the final phase. I find it hard with a Wednesday race because Monday is too close for a hard workout and I have'nt felt good on the Fridays I've attempted sessions (so Saturday is probably a better day for this).

Its just hard to get the balance right between doing enough to maintain fitness and stay sharp but not so much that it leaves me tired and stale. I suppose it like everything else and you learn with experience.

Running Bing

Tuesday: 5 miles. 7:42 min/mile. 82% Av HR. Felt good so picked the pace up a bit. HR a bit high for an easy day though so would'nt be doing this regular.

Wednesday:

1 mile warm up
3x(2x200m with 200m recovery jog+5 minutes at tempo pace with 400m recovery jog)
1 mile warm down

Set 1: 39, 39, 6:39 min/mile pace
Set 2: 38, 38, 6:35 min/mile pace
Set 3: 38, 39, ~6:35-40 min/mile pace


Started p1ssing on the last set and couldnt stop my Garmin after the 5 mins at tempo pace (bloody touch bezel on the Garmin is really getting on my tits) so not sure of the exact pace, but it was similiar to the other two.

Did the tempo bits on grass for a change so that was nice. Enjoyable workout.