Home network

Paulw

Hey folks,

I'm looking at making a home network. I live in an apt, and have an attic. I was thinking of running all cables from the rooms to the attic (hopefully through the walls), and then having a switch in the attic.

I currently have NTL broadband, so need everything connected to that. At the moment I have that running in to a Linksys wireless router (wrt54g). I am also currently using the 4 ports on that router and also using the wireless for laptops, etc. This wireless router works as my DHCP server, and also routes all traffic to the internet.

Now, my decisions revolve around what to get and how to plan the network. Do I go for cat 5e or should I really go for cat 6 cables?

Also, will I need a gigabit ethernet switch (such as TL-SG1024) or would it be enough to use a 100mb switch? I want to future proof as much as I can, as well as giving myself a good network.

Any advice, comments, ideas, etc would be much appreciated. Obviously I want to keep the costs down as much as possible.

FusionNet

This has been covered a lot in past posts. I have personally responded to many. Might be no harm you search previous as Ive repeated myself countless times. I might just write a papaer on this!!

Very briefly though. There is no real planning needed it all depends on your IT knowledge and your pockets.

Firstly answer these for me:

What is the network mainly going to be used for?

How many points are you thinking?

Have you ever wired this or electrical before?

Are you going to run phone and pc traffic?

Have you a budget?

Now please remember that depending on the age of your apartment, you may be able to run cables vertically but be aware if its timber frame you will have horizontals blocking your way if its metal you may the same.

Gig switches are only needed for high traffic or big media. A gig switch is no good if you install a crap network!!

CAt5e or cat6 again doesnt matter a whole pile if you dont know what your at!! Cat5e is fine for internet and mails etc, easy to install and is tolerable to bad install, cat6 is not. Cat6 is used for HD or heavy internet and file transfer but is harder to install.

Now any questions pm or repost and Ill have a look later..

Paulw

Ok, after talking to some people, it seems that Cat5e and 100mb is the way to go, unless there's a need for HD streaming and such.

Looks like I'll be going for about 18-20 ports around my apt. Better to have extra spare ports rather than too few.

I'm only looking to do IP traffic, not voice. Of course, no matter what I put in, the limiting factor will always be my internet connection (3mb broadband).

I'll start probing the walls and see what the best way is to run the cable. I can already source a 2nd hand 100mb switch, so that cuts my costs.

So, now it's down to where to get all the bits I need - cable, connectors, etc.

Sleipnir

When I built an extension last year I ran 5e throughout the house. I do kinda regret not going to cat6 though as it's not really something I can do again. Still, if I can get 1GB that'll do for a while I guess. You could always run cat6 only where you need it eg a couple of lengths from the attic to your T.V. area and 5e everywhere else to keep the costs down.
Also, if you're buying a 24 port switch, you might as well run 24 cables to it, even if you think you're over speccing. I have 1 port high on the wall for my T.V. and 4 ports below it and already with the xbox and the blue-ray, two of those are used!

Why is that switch so cheap I wonder? I have a Cisco FastEthernet at the moment but I want to replace it wil a GigE so I was looking at a HP procurve 1800 but they're around 280 quid.

Paulw

Interesting view.

From talking to some people, there is no major advantage (right now) in using cat 6 for the home, aside from the shielding, which I shouldn't really need at home. I'm going to go for some shielded cat 5e cable.

I've been talking to one of the network guys here in work, and he said I would just have a much harder time running the cat 6 cable, and would not see any major benefit.

My switch is actually a 48 port, an Extreme Summit 48. So, I will always have more ports than I'd need. I plan to put 8 ports around my TV area (PS3, Wii, NTL cable internet, and a lot more devices there).

I know that Cat 6 and a GigE switch would be the ideal way to go, but I don't think I'll need that speed/bandwidth within the home for many years to come, and the cost would be a much bigger factor.

sunnysoutheast

Hi Paul

We put in a wired CAT5e network in our new build. CAT5e is theoretically capable of gigabit ethernet but it's main advantage is that it's not as susceptible to damage on install. CAT6 needs minimum bend radius, specifically-rated terminations, etc.

I terminated all the cable myself, takes a few goes to get right but it's actually quite enjoyable. You'll need a:
- toner
- Krone punchdown tool
- line tester

It's one of the features of the house we wouldn't be without. Network storage and printers are fantastic.

We have a Netgear 24-port giga switch. Our modules downstairs are MK, upstairs I got in the UK.

One further point, don't buy anything from the likes of B&Q. A line tester there is about €30 and the identical one online was £5.

SSE

FusionNet

Hi Paul,

Firstly Id like to state I do this for a living. Id have your place wired in a day no bother, it sounds like a sweet job but......

Do not listen to people who tell you crap like there is no advantage to cat6 right now or use shielded. If shielded cable is not termintaed correctly on a shielded patch panel and shielded modules (all cost more btw) and then bonded to a good earth you actually pick up MORE interference.

Cat5e can do a gig in theory but if you dont certify a network you can not be sure. Also the difference between both price wise is getting smaller. I would at least run Cat6 cable and terminate cat5e. This future proofs the cabling side abd if you every need to upgrade then you change the modules.

Run what you need dont run 24 cables cause you have a 24 port switch that is daft. If you do this right you can distribute your telephone, broadband, HDD's and music servers etc around the place. I do agree with some posters, one by the TV is handy, I'd personally have 2 but thats me!

No because your Apt is the way it is Id say go for the Cat6, Sunnysouth is right in what he says but if I can remember his network was a complete house so a lot more bends and potential damage.

Also remember 1gig switches dont give 1 gig per channel, unless you spend big bucks.

On a final note, cable has a lidespan of approx 10-15 years. I have been installing cat5 for 9 years, and it was around a while before that. As a cable its nearly at the end of its life. Cat6 is the ONLY way to future proof.

I do realise its only a home network but it will be a bit of work for you. Im not sure what you do for a living but I have thousands of euro of equipment to allow me to do these jobs quick and clean. As it is going to be an interesting job for you, do it once and do it right and get advise from people who actually do this for a living and as a passion..

SouperComputer

Provided its installed with care and good planning, either CAT5 or CAT6 will be sufficient. CAT6 is a little trickier to install however, its less malleable and can be more difficult to terminate. If you are doing it yourself expect to spend some a little more time installing CAT6.

Bandwidth wise, you don't need, or want 1Gb to each client. You only want it from server to your switch, then all (or at least most) of the clients should be on 100Mb. Otherwise if you copy a large file from one computer to the server it may cause stuttering for the media playback on the other machines on the network. There are ways around this, but for the sake of simplicity, start with a 1GB connection from your server to your switch and have the clients at 100Mb. From that perspective you are looking for a switch that has one or two GB ports. You could pickup a nice used 3com on eBay for buttons.

You probably want to run two cables to each point. It can be used for telephone too. Ideally you will want a patch panel in the room where the switch is.

For a central server, a PII or PIII will do. Plonk and add-in HD card if needed for your extra drives.

In terms software and the media "experience", what are the specs on these machines? I think you are looking along the lines of scrapping VNC and buying remotes for some of the media clients. You can use the web interface on the free slimserver to control music playback on any of the computers in the home.

"Lightweight" client software options include freevo & geexbox (Linux), GB-PVR & XBMC (Windows).

Maybe you should leave this post here for the discussion of the network and post a new thread on the HTPC/Media Centre forum so we can look into the software side in detail: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=643

/whoops wrong thread! Anyway, its somewhat relevant.

Paulw

Ok, I've gone for Cat 5e cable and a 100mb switch (Extreme Summit 48 15000). I should have all the necessary bits later this week.

I won't be putting up a patch panel. I don't see a need for one. I'm going to cable from the wall points directly to the switch.

I work in IT/Telecoms so having network experts all around me certainly helps. Cat 6 would be harder to run and terminate, especially considering how I need to run the cable. The more I investigate, the harder it will be to run the cable.

Also, 100mb should be enough for my needs. I don't use high bandwidth applications at home. Mostly the network will be used for email, web and such. Again, the bandwidth limiting factor will always be the internet connection (NTL).

As well, I won't have a central server. I will have 2 PCs (XP and Vista), 3 laptops (all Vista), PS3, Wii, a few other bits, my NTL cable internet connection and then my wireless router. At the moment, those are the devices I will have connected to my network.

While I have a 48 port switch, I plan to run 20 network points.

With ragards to the cable life being 10-15 years, I don't even know if I'll be living in the same building in 5 years time.

Thanks for the advice and expertise, and I'll update with progress when the network is installed.

FusionNet

My opinions were based on my experience in the business network area which like Formula 1 to commercial cars has a blead over period. Yes I may be over the top on my rules n regs but thats business I guess. Also my advice on 1 gig switches and cat6 vs cat5e was a general point not nec geared to the OP.

I guess my main point is "do it once n do it right"

el dude

Looking inot setting up a home network. I'll be looking to stream media to two maybe three different points. And i'm just curious about where is the best place to store the media? I'm thinking an external harddrive with an ethernet connection?

And i was thinking about something like these to avoid messing around with long cables.

Paulw

FusionNet wrote: »

I guess my main point is "do it once n do it right"

I do agree with you there. I only want to do the job once, and I want it all to work properly and last me the next few years.

I have almost all the components needed now - cat 5e ftp cable, 48 port switch, and most of the connection components. I will need some more face plates and back box mounts.

This weekend I'll spend my time measuring and running the cable. I will probably get some help with mounting the faceplates in to the walls, but the rest I can do myself.

It should be a long and busy weekend, but most of the work will then be done.

Thanks again for all the advice, it is all appreciated.

cian1810

Hi,

I'm also looking to put a home network in. I have two cat5e cables running from each room to a central point, and am wondering what to do next...

1. put rj45s on the end of each cable, and plug these directly into a hub.
2. put a patch panel on the cables, and use standard network cables between the panel and the hub.

1) is more difficult to do - I'd need to crimp the rj45s - I've no experience with this, and it's not the Right Thing(tm) to do.
2) is more simple as it will use a punch-down tools. However I've hit a wall in getting a patch panel. Any advice where I can get:
- 12 port patch panel
- small rack, or something to mount the panel in

Are there any shops that sell these (I'm in Dublin)? Or do I need to go on-line?

Thanks
Cian

Paulw

I bought most of my stuff from http://www.radionics.ie/.

I didn't go with the patch panel idea (extra work for no major benefit). Just cable back to rj45 points plugged in to a switch.

zorch

That switch is going to give you a pain in the ass,

Dont get me wrong it's a brilliant L3 device, serious kit...

It's real noisey - 24 hours a day
It's power hungry - I think a couple of Hundred Watts

it's way overkill - i'd ebay it and buy something more suitable

imho

odonoso

Hi
I bought myself 3 10 inch patch panel and a small wall mounted rack recenlty from a person ebay
Still in the process of wiring them

Gadgetman496

Paulw wrote: »

I won't be putting up a patch panel. I don't see a need for one. I'm going to cable from the wall points directly to the switch.

I've discussed this in the past with FusionNet & i know his thought on this, "Industry Standard".

However, I too fail to see the logic behind using patch panels.

Extra components (Panel & patch leads).

Extra labour.

Extra cost.

And all for absolutely no benefit as far as I can see.

Has anyone got an undisputed reason as to why patch panels should be used?

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rmacm

gadgetman496 wrote: »

I've discussed this in the past with FusionNet & i know his thought on this, "Industry Standard".

However, I too fail to see the logic behind using patch panels.

Extra components (Panel & patch leads).

Extra labour.

Extra cost.

And all for absolutely no benefit as far as I can see.

Has anyone got an undisputed reason as to why patch panels should be used?

-

I think it depends on your requirements....no offence FusionNet but sometimes I think you tend to focus a bit too much on certified cabling etc. when a quick and dirty solution will do for some people in a home use situation.

As for a reason to use patch panels in an enviornment where you have a lot of connections e.g. a medium to large size office a patch panel starts to make sense. You have all the cabling in the office running back to the panel and then with the patch cables at the front you can easily make configuration changes when required e.g. if you want to dump a floors worth of people onto a new switch you just move the patch cables rather than the more permanent cables coming from their wall points. This tends to make things tidier and a bit more manageable.

Bleh this might not be an undisputed reason but I know if I was dealing with a medium to large sized network I'd prefer if the cabling were run into a patch panel because it just makes things easier to manage.

Gadgetman496

rmacm wrote: »

I think it depends on your requirements....no offence FusionNet but sometimes I think you tend to focus a bit too much on certified cabling etc. when a quick and dirty solution will do for some people in a home use situation.

As for a reason to use patch panels in an enviornment where you have a lot of connections e.g. a medium to large size office a patch panel starts to make sense. You have all the cabling in the office running back to the panel and then with the patch cables at the front you can easily make configuration changes when required e.g. if you want to dump a floors worth of people onto a new switch you just move the patch cables rather than the more permanent cables coming from their wall points. This tends to make things tidier and a bit more manageable.

Bleh this might not be an undisputed reason but I know if I was dealing with a medium to large sized network I'd prefer if the cabling were run into a patch panel because it just makes things easier to manage.

Don't take me wrong either rmacm & FusionNet, I'm not knocking the use of Patch panels, I just don't see the real need for them even in a medium to large setup. I'm no guru on networking at any level so I'm looking at this purely from a noobs logic point of view .

In a rack-mount/cabinet environment, do both the switch & patch panel not be front facing?

Do both not receive RJ45 heads?

So, if you want to disconnect a user, a group of users, a complete floor or perform any other configuration change like moving to another switch, does that not necessitate unplugging & re plugging RJ45 heads?

If so? what does it matter if you are manipulating the plugs on the switch only or on the patch panel?

If anything, a patch panel creates two extra connections per point? (one RJ45 & one punch down) Does that not increase the potential for bad connections? Not to mention the time consuming extra installation labour costs plus parts?

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FusionNet

Ok where do I start!!

I guess firstly unless you have been in the small to medium or large business environment its hard to see the need for patch panels. But one day with me and you would patch panel you nans house. For me, my work only really comes into effect when the next guy comes in to install a network printer for example.

Say he comes into a hotel. One for example I am re-wiring at the moment cause an idiot thaought he could run cables 130m on a flat roof using indoor cable..!! So I will install 4 network cabinets in this hotel in different areas. Each one looks after a zone. They will be linked by copper or fibre if the runs are nearing 90m. Each cabinet has a number. Say cabinet one on ground floor will be 1A, next one will be 1B, on floor tow 2A, and 2B etc. When mr IT man comes into install a netaork printer for example he goes into an office and sees 2A-B14 on the socket. He now knows in two seconds that that socket termintes in Comms room or comms cabinet 2A so that is on the 1st floor and its patch panel B and port 14.

My job is to install a solid backbone into a building which I can use for Telco, Huigh Def CCTV, Audio, Network and much much more. By installing anything but a patch panel you reduce yourself to only being able to use it for network.

Now dont get me wrong in a small office where you need 4 connections I would use socket to socket. But anywhere I can I will use a cabinet and a patch panel. Now its also important to remember I use a cabling system where I Do not have to install a 24 port patch panel. I install a patch frame. This has 24 empty ports in it. I then terminate whatever cable I need for example 10 points and I pop them in to the frame. This means my patch panel only cost me as I go and still performs and looks the business.

I know Im probably one of the only people one here that pretty much gets upset when I see a bad cabling job but Im so sick of guys taking work and doing a really bad job and then leaving the mess for people like me to clean up. I have 2 clients that are actually sueing there original installers because they did not install proper cabling systems. Remember guys a badly installed cabling backbone is not only essential for the smooth running of IT and security but if done wrong can be a fire hazard.

I had a network run through kitchen air ducts recently??? I had a clirnt whose whole builing went on fire, guess where it spread through, the air ducts. They can be full of grease and when that catches fire and ignites the cable the fire can spread along a cable backbone at around 100mph.

In a domestic situation fire away and use plugs or whatever, they will fail in time but in a commercial premises even if its a 24 port system for Spar or someone it needs to be done right. Thats why we have the ISO/IEC 11801 and EIA/TIA568B and BICSI (Building Industry Consulting Service International), these guys arent all there just for the craic they play a vital role in the cabling industry. Im not being big headed or anything here but where I work there are only a handful of correctly terminted networks. They are either the ones I installed or other good companies. People dont take the networking of a building serious and its annoying. Its not only about certifying it and covering your behind but its about neat work, clean conduit, level sockets and cabling perfectly bundled where its visible. Also the right hardware and the right cable for the job needed.

For example DO NOT screened cable becuae its near a socket.. Ironically screeded cable will be worse unless its earthed properly and instead of fixing the problem as you thought you have now made it twice as bad!!!

I personally take pride in my work and take it to heart. Every job regardless of size deserves the same effort. I have in time been complimented on my stlye by people who have been in the industry for 15 and 20 years which is flattering but it means one thing, Im doing it right but Im still learning every day. Remember one thing all newbie cable installers. Very few people can tell by looking at a network if its going to perform or not but everyone can tell you if its a neat job!! Take pride and put in the effort.

Gadgetman, just remember too yes patch panels cans be slow and awkward but I would put money on it, I could wire up my patch panel fasteer than you could crimp those RJ45 things.. Remember not all patch panels are slow, mine take about 60 seconds per point!!! Also guys always try to remember that a structured cabling system is not just for computers so RJ45 plugs will limit you. I have personally run, computer, pbx, ISDN, POTS, Audio, Serial ports, Keyboards and both analogue and IP CCTV trhogh the copper network and guess what, they always worked first time!!

Look everyone to there own guys. Dont get me wrong I dont wire up Microsofts etc I specialise in the small to medium size business but I take my cable very seriously. I put the same passion into the telephone systems and CCTV. I get paid well and my customers deserve the best. I might never be rich but Im going to leave some tasty work behind me with a big fat Fusion Networks sticker all over it!!!!!!

By the way on a final note. I did an audit on two networks recently. Both installed by "electrical companies" both put in cat5e indoor cable and ran it outside but the sad part was that in both over 80% of the connections failed.. Why? Because they used the british standard on one siode and the american on the other. They use inddor cable outdoor, they had had runs of over 140 metres and they had the nasiest workmanship, oh and they numbered all the points wrong. Ill give you one guess who was called in when the nextworks started collapsing!!! Whats kills me is these guys got paid for it. We have been contracted more and more recently to repair bad installs. I have one "famous" celebrity client. We have re-wired 2 of their premises and with any luck there is a third in the pipeline!! So I guess in one sense I cant give out too much about bad wiring once they call me to re-install it but Id rather be the first guy there.

Oh thats another thing. Can I please advise anyone who is about to build a commercial building or is project managing a build. DO NOT call the network guy in last. We should be on the planning stage. Thats another pet hate. We always seem to get called in the last few weeks of a build after some monkley has completely pulled all the cables wrong. If you want a proper fully functional network let the cabling company cable or else at least over see the cabling. And be in touch early in the project. Consultants now very little about the bend radius of a cable I find, so let me worry about that and they can worry about something else.

ok I think Ive done enough ranting.. Tc. God I sound like a complete cranky old man, Im only 30!!!!!

Gadgetman496

FusionNet,

I have seen some pictures of some of the work you have carried out & it's caliber is not in question here at all.

You do exceptionally good work, tidy should be your middle name too

I build & repair PC's and I too take pride in what I do, so I know where you are coming from there.

Having to do a job twice is not only costing you money but more importantly it is costing you your reputation also & that's nothing short of suicide IMO.

I'm not going to pursue the do's & don'ts of using a patch panel any further as I believe there isn't really a definitive answer to it anyway. I will say this though, when you see a neatly installed network, the use of a patch panel & and pre certified patch leads does look impressive .

You will get cowboys in every facet of computing as can be the case in any trade I guess.

On a lighter note:

Here's an examples of a professional cowboy in action, it's in two parts & well worth a watch (if you haven't seen it before).

Video Part #1

Video Part #2

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FusionNet

Gadgetman,

Your right we shouldnt be arguing about the use and do's and donts of patch panels, well cause you know Im right and your wrong haha

Seriously though I guess down in Kerry we dont get any data centres or big big corporate so if your doing 200 points or so it is nice to do it to the same standard, I guess you'll never know if a company will expand..

That you tube clip was made, what a dcik, I guess there are a few of them over here too?? My favourite part was when he crunched his bumper that was pure justice wasnt it.. Pretty crappy plastics, that wouldnt happen my Pajero!!

axer

Cables should never be crimped - they should always be punched down into something like a patch panel or rj45 modules. RJ45 crystals should be just used as a temporary measure. It is much easier to punch down cables correctly into a patch panel than crimping crystals onto the end of cables correctly.

You use patch cables to connect points together. These cables are factory made so generally keep good connection.

NullZer0

axer wrote: »

Cables should never be crimped - they should always be punched down into something like a patch panel or rj45 modules. RJ45 crystals should be just used as a temporary measure. It is much easier to punch down cables correctly into a patch panel than crimping crystals onto the end of cables correctly.

Agreed

FusionNet

I thought thats what I was trying to say through out this whole post. As Ive said before we dont even stock crimps, that stops any staff using them!!!