VAT & debt collection question

starbelgrade

I recently put an advertisement in a local newspaper for my business. I was quoted a price of €200 on the phone & gave my laser card details to pay for it. However, a few days later I recieved a bill for €234... €200 for the ad & €34 for the VAT.

Now, I was never at any point informed that the price quoted did not include VAT, nor was VAT even mentioned. I have since refused to pay the €34 & have been informed by the newspaper that my account will be passed on to a debt collection agency if it is not paid within 5 days.

Is this legal & when is it legal for a company to set a debt collection agency on you?

Paulw

From my understanding, business quotes are non-VAT inclusive, while consumer quotes are inclusive of VAT.

So, from their view, this was a business to business transaction, and therefore VAT wasn't quoted.

You are therefore liable for the VAT of €34.

LiamD

+1

I worked in credit control for a media firm and all invoices were ex-VAT and no one ever queried this. It's just like any other business expense, you must add VAT.

I would advise you pay it or else they are well within their rights to send it to a debt collection agency.

jor el

Is your business VAT registered? You get it back if you are, as this is a business expense. As mentioned, business quotes would never include VAT, though sometimes it would be shown separately. Since you did everything over the phone, you had no chance to see it all written down.

ejmaztec

starbelgrade wrote: »

I recently put an advertisement in a local newspaper for my business. I was quoted a price of €200 on the phone & gave my laser card details to pay for it. However, a few days later I recieved a bill for €234... €200 for the ad & €34 for the VAT.

Now, I was never at any point informed that the price quoted did not include VAT, nor was VAT even mentioned. I have since refused to pay the €34 & have been informed by the newspaper that my account will be passed on to a debt collection agency if it is not paid within 5 days.

Is this legal & when is it legal for a company to set a debt collection agency on you?

17% vat?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I'm surprised if you have a business that you are not familiar with the norm that business quotes are excl VAT. You owe the €34 (hardly a fortune to a business) and why are you not VAT registered so you can claim it back?

ejmaztec

Sariah Greasy Prune wrote: »

I'm surprised if you have a business that you are not familiar with the norm that business quotes are excl VAT. You owe the €34 (hardly a fortune to a business) and why are you not VAT registered so you can claim it back?

Not all businesses register for vat - and some businesses are bigger than others.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

ejmaztec wrote: »

Not all businesses register for vat - and some businesses are bigger than others.

Fair enough. But I'm still astounded that anybody with a business isn't used to prices being ex VAT.

eth0_

Er...how long have you been in business for? Of course it was ex-vat, you were paying for a business advert!

starbelgrade

I only started the business the same week I put the ad in the paper. I'm not registered for VAT as the business is a part time small earner. I wasn't aware that the VAT was not included in the price - especially as the woman who quoted me said that it was €200 "all in", which would imply that there would be no additional charges.

The thing that really bugs me is that I gave them my laser card details at the time & I presumed they were gonna charge me €200 there & then. The invoice with the VAT charge came a week later. The total was €243 (not €234 as I mistakenly posted earlier) and though €43 may not be a lot of money to some people, it's €43 more than I had or wanted to spend on the advertisement.

To presume that anyone starting a business will automatically know that VAT will be charged on an "all in" price is not just presumptuous on their behalf, but downright cheeky in my opinion.

jhegarty

starbelgrade wrote: »

To presume that anyone starting a business will automatically know that VAT will be charged on an "all in" price is not just presumptuous on their behalf, but downright cheeky in my opinion.

It's just the way the world works. All business quote this way, so get used to it.

jahalpin

starbelgrade wrote: »

I recently put an advertisement in a local newspaper for my business. I was quoted a price of €200 on the phone & gave my laser card details to pay for it. However, a few days later I recieved a bill for €234... €200 for the ad & €34 for the VAT.

Now, I was never at any point informed that the price quoted did not include VAT, nor was VAT even mentioned. I have since refused to pay the €34 & have been informed by the newspaper that my account will be passed on to a debt collection agency if it is not paid within 5 days.

Is this legal & when is it legal for a company to set a debt collection agency on you?

If you paid by laser card, the paper would have taken the full amount from your card. The account was paid in full, why would debt collectors come after you?

wmpdd3

Oh My GOD You WERE ROBBED


by €1 should be 242 inc VAT...............

Rafloution

Vat is 21.5% has been since Dec 1st 08. €243.00 inc vat is correct

Jimdagym

jahalpin wrote: »

If you paid by laser card, the paper would have taken the full amount from your card. The account was paid in full, why would debt collectors come after you?

Lol, great spot. This entire thread makes no sense whatsoever now.

Big Wave

starbelgrade wrote: »

I only started the business the same week I put the ad in the paper. I'm not registered for VAT as the business is a part time small earner. I wasn't aware that the VAT was not included in the price - especially as the woman who quoted me said that it was €200 "all in", which would imply that there would be no additional charges.

The thing that really bugs me is that I gave them my laser card details at the time & I presumed they were gonna charge me €200 there & then. The invoice with the VAT charge came a week later. The total was €243 (not €234 as I mistakenly posted earlier) and though €43 may not be a lot of money to some people, it's €43 more than I had or wanted to spend on the advertisement.

To presume that anyone starting a business will automatically know that VAT will be charged on an "all in" price is not just presumptuous on their behalf, but downright cheeky in my opinion.

Ignorance is no excuse - you weren't ripped off. The "all in" price means no hidden charges, which there weren't - VAT is not hidden - it's always charged on top of any quotes when dealing with businesses - you just didn't know this. Granted, the bitch on the phone should have said "€200 ex VAT" (most companies I deal with provide this courtesy) - but she didn't and isn't required to.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I dispair for your business if you start by not being familiar with how things work out there. Also thinking it "cheeky" is a bit childish of you. How did yuo end up owing €43 if you paid by Laser? This whole think smells all wrong.

starbelgrade

Sariah Greasy Prune wrote: »

I dispair for your business if you start by not being familiar with how things work out there. Also thinking it "cheeky" is a bit childish of you. How did yuo end up owing €43 if you paid by Laser? This whole think smells all wrong.

Hang on a second - do you really believe that everyone who starts up a business AUTOMATICALLY knows everything involved in running a business? I might have been ignorant about the VAT question, but I at least I'm not ignorant enough to presume that I know everything. I learnt a lesson from this and it cost me €43. I am sure that I will make further mistakes, but mistakes are what you learn from, unless you are programmed with a "know-it-all" microchip like some of the smart asses who replied to this thread.

As for the laser card issue - if you & the other smarties had read my post properly, you would have read that "I gave them my laser card details at the time & I presumed they were gonna charge me €200 there & then." They didn't do so, which is why I recieved an invoice a week later. But, then again, I thought you knew it all.. looks like you were wrong there.

Well, thanks to those who gave me advice - and to the rest of you... it must be nice up there on the high ground scoffing at "oiks" like me.

And despair is spelt with an "e".

cgarvey

B2B is ex-VAT .. standard practice. You need some business advice (from an accountant, a book keeper, the local enterprise, leaflets from the Revenue, etc.), if you're starting a business. If you're just doing this as an aside, and not claiming tax on it, etc., you probably won't get as much advice from the aforementioned, but it sounds like you need it anyway.

If you had paid by Laser (and you haven't, as you've said) they would have had to have authorisation from you for the full amount (VAT incl.).

However quoting ex-VAT prices over the phone or in media for B2B transactions is standard practice (because in most cases that is the actual cost). Revenue have plenty of information on this, all for free from their website. Lots of introductory guides there (not just for VAT).

Big Wave

starbelgrade wrote: »

And despair is spelt with an "e".

ejmaztec

It's always best to ask whether or not vat is included, because businesses here are generally consistent with their inconsistencies.

starbelgrade

cgarvey wrote: »

B2B is ex-VAT .. standard practice. You need some business advice (from an accountant, a book keeper, the local enterprise, leaflets from the Revenue, etc.), if you're starting a business. If you're just doing this as an aside, and not claiming tax on it, etc., you probably won't get as much advice from the aforementioned, but it sounds like you need it anyway.

If you had paid by Laser (and you haven't, as you've said) they would have had to have authorisation from you for the full amount (VAT incl.).

However quoting ex-VAT prices over the phone or in media for B2B transactions is standard practice (because in most cases that is the actual cost). Revenue have plenty of information on this, all for free from their website. Lots of introductory guides there (not just for VAT).

Yeah - a bit of professional advice would be a help... the problem at the moment is that I don't really have the money for it, so at the moment I'm just playing it by ear. It's going well enough so far - what I sell is made up to order, so I don't have any major outgoings as I buy the materials I need when I get an order.

When I make a bit more money, I'll definitely get some professional advice.


ejmaztec... lol !

jor el

starbelgrade wrote: »

Hang on a second - do you really believe that everyone who starts up a business AUTOMATICALLY knows everything involved in running a business?

No, but when you, as a business, get a quote from another business, VAT will never be included. The other business doesn't know or care how long you've been running your's, or how much you know. It isn't their problem, or job, to educate you, but now you know, you won't make that mistake/assumption again.

This is a business to business transaction, and not a consumer issue.

ejmaztec

starbelgrade wrote: »

Yeah - a bit of professional advice would be a help... the problem at the moment is that I don't really have the money for it, so at the moment I'm just playing it by ear. It's going well enough so far - what I sell is made up to order, so I don't have any major outgoings as I buy the materials I need when I get an order.

When I make a bit more money, I'll definitely get some professional advice.


ejmaztec... lol !

You should go and visit an accountant straight away for some advice, as you probably won't get a bill until your first year's accounts are prepared. It will be more cost-effective to start off on the right foot, instead of dumping a load of paper-work into an accountant's lap later on - and hoping for the best.

starbelgrade

ejmaztec wrote: »

You should go and visit an accountant straight away for some advice, as you probably won't get a bill until your first year's accounts are prepared. It will be more cost-effective to start off on the right foot, instead of dumping a load of paper-work into an accountant's lap later on - and hoping for the best.

Hey - that's an excellent suggestion... cheers dude!

DBeckett

starbelgrade wrote: »

I recently put an advertisement in a local newspaper for my business. I was quoted a price of €200 on the phone & gave my laser card details to pay for it. However, a few days later I recieved a bill for €234... €200 for the ad & €34 for the VAT.

Now, I was never at any point informed that the price quoted did not include VAT, nor was VAT even mentioned. I have since refused to pay the €34 & have been informed by the newspaper that my account will be passed on to a debt collection agency if it is not paid within 5 days.

Is this legal & when is it legal for a company to set a debt collection agency on you?

Hi Starbelgrade

A company like that will normally hold the upper hand and mention that they are covered by their T's & C's (Terms and Conditions). You should ask for a copy of theirs. If it does not state in there that all prices are excl. of VAT (Except where applicable) for example, then you may be able to move further with this. I run a debt recovery organisation myself and have seen this a few times where people have been caught out.

Ask them, if you check then at least you will know.

Hope that helps

D. Beckett