Boro v Liverpool Match Thread Sat 15:00

ironictoaster

My friend was fuming at the full time whistle. He just threw his liverpool jersey in the bin and walked out the door...

elshambo

opr wrote: »

I am not even going to argue this because anyone with the smallest amount of common sense can see trying someone who has never played at RB against a really good winger like Downing who is your oppositions main threat is insane.

Opr

+ Carra is going to offer a lot more going forword than Skrtel
+Carra has played well the last few times at RB imo
+Carra is a tidy simple passer and can back up the play from RB without setting the world on fire

only reason can be he was scarred of Downing's pace against Carra
But playing Skrtel out at RB is real Football Manager stuff!:o

Melion

creggy wrote: »

My friend was fuming at the full time whistle. He just threw his liverpool jersey in the bin and walked out the door...

Your friend doesnt deserve to wear that shirt. I cant stand fans like that who expect us to win every game every season just because of who we are, or more importantly who we were about 20 years ago.

therecklessone

I shouldn't have to say this:

If you have a problem with a post you report it, and leave the mods of this forum to take action.

Do not comment on-thread about the post, stating you have reported a post is considered back-seat modding.

joe123

creggy wrote: »

My friend was fuming at the full time whistle. He just threw his liverpool jersey in the bin and walked out the door...

Shameful thing to do imo.

podge018

Skrtel at right back was no big deal. Both goals came from the other side. Carragher has played there this season to no effect. Darby couldn't be put out there behind El Zhar, would have been suicide. Try Skrtel and see how he gets on. He wasn't great, and I doubt he'll ever play there again. But lets get it straight, it was in no way the reason we lost today.

Headshot

heres what rafa has to say

Rafa Benitez refused to call time on the title race after the 2-0 defeat to Middlesbrough - but admitted the Premier League was now Manchester United's to lose.
The Reds slumped to only their second league defeat of the season after Tuncay added to a Xabi Alonso own goal.

A victory for Chelsea over Wigan means Liverpool now sit third in the Premier League, seven points behind Alex Ferguson's front runners.

Benitez said: "Before the game it was difficult and after it is more difficult. We will see against Sunderland and try to improve but it depends on United now.

"If you want to stay at the top of the table you have to score.

"I will not say too much because for me it's clear that in the first 20 minutes we created five chances and you have to take chances if you want to win.

"We had some problems and injures - some players were tired but we had chances. We were in control for the first 30 minutes. Middlesbrough did well in the second half."

Liverpool's day got worse on 77 minutes when the returning Steven Gerrard had to be withdrawn after picking up a knock.

However, Benitez revealed afterwards that the injury was unlikely to keep him out of Tuesday's visit of Sunderland.

"He had cramps. I don't think it will be serious," said the boss

jesus_thats_gre

The most frustrating aspect of todays match is the amount clear cut chances that we missed.. If you are playing poorly, you have to take the chances when they come..

Boro played very well today also.

invincibleirish

Villain wrote: »

Rafa will win you the CL but he will never win the PL title imo

Surely Pool fans will be happy with that and wish the manager to stay?

LFC are in no different a state to what they were 12 months ago, why should they expect to compete with Man Utd when they have no faith in their Clubs hierarchy to do so.

Benitez just needs to sit tight, wait for those above to be sacked or sell up and then he'll get the honeypot and control he wants.

I'd gladly take a Pool CL victory if it means depriving Arsenal another route to the CL.

Headshot

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

The most frustrating aspect of todays match is the amount clear cut chances that we missed.. If you are playing poorly, you have to take the chances when they come..

Boro played very well today also.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/premier-league/2008-2009/middlesbrough-liverpool-236889.html

23 shots

only 4 on target

whatawaster

Headshot wrote: »

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/premier-league/2008-2009/middlesbrough-liverpool-236889.html

23 shots

only 4 on target

we already have the worst shots on target ratio in the league. Something like 35 percent. Shocking lack of composure. I think United have the best.

Racing Flat

creggy wrote: »

My friend was fuming at the full time whistle. He just threw his liverpool jersey in the bin and walked out the door...

That says more about him than the Liverpool performance or current standing.

elshambo

Racing Flat wrote: »

That says more about him than the Liverpool performance or current standing.

True, they have been that horrible to watch in most of the games ive made myself sit thru

He should be well used to it at this stage!

Highsider

creggy wrote: »

My friend was fuming at the full time whistle. He just threw his liverpool jersey in the bin and walked out the door...

Pathetic thing to do. Who did he support before? Leeds,Blackburn and then Chelsea before we won the champions league. Clown :mad:

jesus_thats_gre

Headshot wrote: »

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/premier-league/2008-2009/middlesbrough-liverpool-236889.html

23 shots

only 4 on target

I am talking specifically about the missed chances from El Zhar and Kuyt.

I am not making excuses for loosing as we were very poor. I am saying that in games like these when you are playing poor, you have to take the chances when you get them.

jesus_thats_gre

invincibleirish wrote: »

Surely Pool fans will be happy with that and wish the manager to stay?

LFC are in no different a state to what they were 12 months ago, why should they expect to compete with Man Utd when they have no faith in their Clubs hierarchy to do so.

Benitez just needs to sit tight, wait for those above to be sacked or sell up and then he'll get the honeypot and control he wants.

I'd gladly take a Pool CL victory if it means depriving Arsenal another route to the CL.

Tis a sad day when you are being damned for being happy with Champions League success. We have shown time and time again that we can compete with the best teams in the world. I just don't understand how a manager can be slated while this remains the case.

The lack of success in the PL is disappointing but as you point out, there are countless reasons that can be used to explain this. I won't be criticising Rafa to any large degree until the clubs ownership and hierarchy are sorted out.

League is over but still in the CL, which the last time I checked is the biggest trophy in club football. Its not all doom and gloom;)

Aquos76

So are we now seeing some pool fans saying they want the CL now more than the PL, thats a turn up for the books aye....

I am quitely confident that liverpool will be ending the season without any trophies this season. They do not have the squad for them to win anything imo

Here are the goals for those who have not yet seen them
1-0
2-0

El Zhar's miss

200motels

It's about time Rafa went and I'm not overreacting because of today. it's being like that for years under him, I've never being a fan of the way he sends his teams out to play, look at Carriger coming off today he looked dejected like he's had enough of this managers total disregard for the League. The sooner he goes the better and takes most of the rubbish he's bought with him. Lots of Pool fans keep saying but there's no one else to replace him I'd rather Noddy take over than have him around for another 5 years to bore me to tears with his game by numbers.

ironictoaster

Melion wrote: »

Your friend doesnt deserve to wear that shirt. I cant stand fans like that who expect us to win every game every season just because of who we are, or more importantly who we were about 20 years ago.

joe123 wrote: »

Shameful thing to do imo.

Racing Flat wrote: »

That says more about him than the Liverpool performance or current standing.

Highsider wrote: »

Pathetic thing to do. Who did he support before? Leeds,Blackburn and then Chelsea before we won the champions league. Clown :mad:

I'll show him these comments tomorrow! He's a bit of a sap alright. He's goes mad when they lose yet, when they he praises and calls them world class when they beat Madrid the other day :rolleyes: Coming to think of it, he's probs one of the worst Liverpool supporters I've ever met. He'd be the one who would remind you that Liverpool won the European Cup 5 times, ugh.


He just rang me a couple of minutes ago, he wants the jersey back :rolleyes:

200motels

Highsider wrote: »

I'll bite. Your right we don't have the squad nor the money to assemble that squad. When we do have that investment at the Chelsea and Man u levels then and only then will it be time to judge Rafa Benitez. Even at that it shows just what a fantastic manager Rafa is when we are 3rd favourite to win the champions league.

Rafa a fantastic manager give me a break, he's a shocking manager bores me to tears get rid of him now.

Highsider

creggy wrote: »

I'll show him these comments tomorrow! He's a bit of a sap alright. He's goes mad when they lose yet, when they he praises and calls them world class when they beat Madrid the other day :rolleyes: Coming to think of it, he's probs one of the worst Liverpool supporters I've ever met. He'd be the one who would remind you that Liverpool won the European Cup 5 times, ugh.


He just rang me a couple of minutes ago, he wants the jersey back :rolleyes:

Hope he reminds you of the 18 league titles as well

yayamark

:mad:

ironictoaster

Highsider wrote: »

Hope he reminds you of the 18 league titles as well

He sure does, then I remind him Liverpool has never won the premier league :pac:

glenjamin

Excuse my lateness but;

'I'm Boro till I die,
Boro till I die,
Boro till I die,
I'm Boro till I die!'

kippy

Villain wrote: »

Leaving Benayoun on the bench today was a very odd decision, I said about 2 weeks he was really looking on form and he done well at Madrid and then gets left on the bench??

Rafa will win you the CL but he will never win the PL title imo

To be honest leaving Benayoun on the bench was completely sticking with Rafas modus operandi of the past few seasons. He did the same to Crouch last season when he was in the middle of a decent run. He does like demoralizing certain players.
This was a great result for Boro and a dreadful one for Liverpool.

Mental Mickey

Thanks Rafa.........get your coat, and close the ******* door on your way out!!!

:mad:

joe123

I kept away from this thread because I had a feelin it could go a bit mad here. Just a quick look and people are comparing Reina to VDS?

Anyways seems I ended up with a warning for thanking a post which made perfect sense which im a bit puzzled at but anyways.


I heard today Fm was in undated with mad liverpool fans wanting Rafa out.

What would be the point in sacking him now. Give him another year is what I think. Then if its another season of failing to even score against sides that are 2nd from bottom in the league then maybe.

Would love to see Martin O neill take charge of the club but thats for another day.

"As someone said a grey day for liverpool in a grey jersey." Sums its up.

CivilServant

rarnes1 wrote: »

League is over but still in the CL, which the last time I checked is the biggest trophy in club football. Its not all doom and gloom;)

It will only be of value if we beat Utd in the final

therecklessone

I've moved the discussion re. squad comparison and keepers etc to a thread of it's won, lets see if it will survive or implode.

Tusky

Ive stayed away from this thread until now. Today was a very disappointing day. Before I go on, I want to stress that I dont want Benitez to be sacked and I dont want him to leave the club. I think the best thing for the club is to have a manager there long term, and Benitez has done plenty of positive things for the club. However....some things just baffle me.

- Our league season hangs on this one game. We are playing a team that are definitely going to throw everyone behind the ball and defend...a team that has a pretty poor defensive record. A team that are on low confidence. We need to win this match...what does Rafa do ? Play with 2 deep midfielders and only 4 attacking players from 11. One of them being the relatively untested El Zhar.

- Another being Kuyt, played in a lone striker position. A position he has shown time and time again he is ineffective in.

- Playing Skrtel at right back....why not play Carra there ? He has buckets of experience in that position.

- Leaving 2 holding midfielders on for so long when we were struggling to create chances...and then taking Carragher off and putting Mascherano at right back ?

- Not starting Benayoun. People will say that he played mid week...but so did Carra, Skrtel, Alonso, Mascherano, Aurelio and Kuyt. Plus Benayoun hasnt played many minutes this season, he would have been fine.

- The attacking state of the squad. People can harp on about the amount of money he has had to spend or this and that. The fact is, he has only brought one top quality attacker to the club in 5 years. Currently, we have one top quality striker and no top quality wingers.

None of the above is a knee jerk reaction to the result today.

ibh

Tusky wrote: »

Ive stayed away from this thread until now. Today was a very disappointing day. Before I go on, I want to stress that I dont want Benitez to be sacked and I dont want him to leave the club. I think the best thing for the club is to have a manager there long term, and Benitez has done plenty of positive things for the club. However....some things just baffle me.

- Our league season hangs on this one game. We are playing a team that are definitely going to throw everyone behind the ball and defend...a team that has a pretty poor defensive record. A team that are on low confidence. We need to win this match...what does Rafa do ? Play with 2 deep midfielders and only 4 attacking players from 11. One of them being the relatively untested El Zhar.

- Another being Kuyt, played in a lone striker position. A position he has shown time and time again he is ineffective in.

- Playing Skrtel at right back....why not play Carra there ? He has buckets of experience in that position.

- Leaving 2 holding midfielders on for so long when we were struggling to create chances...and then taking Carragher off and putting Mascherano at right back ?

- Not starting Benayoun. People will say that he played mid week...but so did Carra, Skrtel, Alonso, Mascherano, Aurelio and Kuyt. Plus Benayoun hasnt played many minutes this season, he would have been fine.

- The attacking state of the squad. People can harp on about the amount of money he has had to spend or this and that. The fact is, he has only brought one top quality attacker to the club in 5 years. Currently, we have one top quality striker and no top quality wingers.

None of the above is a knee jerk reaction to the result today.

No, but it's a series of well made reasoned points so don't expect much of a response.:pac:

I would be of a similar opinion btw. I'm not a Benitez hater but i still think he does stupid stuff especially against the weaker teams. And in general we have a deficet of attacking / skillfiul players who are not sh'te.

colly10

Tusky wrote: »

Ive stayed away from this thread until now. Today was a very disappointing day. Before I go on, I want to stress that I dont want Benitez to be sacked and I dont want him to leave the club. I think the best thing for the club is to have a manager there long term, and Benitez has done plenty of positive things for the club. However....some things just baffle me.

- Our league season hangs on this one game. We are playing a team that are definitely going to throw everyone behind the ball and defend...a team that has a pretty poor defensive record. A team that are on low confidence. We need to win this match...what does Rafa do ? Play with 2 deep midfielders and only 4 attacking players from 11. One of them being the relatively untested El Zhar.

- Another being Kuyt, played in a lone striker position. A position he has shown time and time again he is ineffective in.

- Playing Skrtel at right back....why not play Carra there ? He has buckets of experience in that position.

- Leaving 2 holding midfielders on for so long when we were struggling to create chances...and then taking Carragher off and putting Mascherano at right back ?

- Not starting Benayoun. People will say that he played mid week...but so did Carra, Skrtel, Alonso, Mascherano, Aurelio and Kuyt. Plus Benayoun hasnt played many minutes this season, he would have been fine.

- The attacking state of the squad. People can harp on about the amount of money he has had to spend or this and that. The fact is, he has only brought one top quality attacker to the club in 5 years. Currently, we have one top quality striker and no top quality wingers.

None of the above is a knee jerk reaction to the result today.

+1 - I commented at half time that I could not understand the decisions at that stage regardless of how the match would finish. The Skrtel decision was a particularly bizarre decision for me and dropping yossi wasn't a whole lot better.
I would not mind if today was a one off, what annoys me is that he won't learn from this and the same things will happen again (like aurelio in the middle which he got away with).
I cannot accept a manager who is too stubborn to learn from his mistakes and for that reason id be happy to see him out at the end of the season

Playing players in their right positions is basic.

daithijjj

Tusky wrote: »

Ive stayed away from this thread until now. Today was a very disappointing day. Before I go on, I want to stress that I dont want Benitez to be sacked and I dont want him to leave the club. I think the best thing for the club is to have a manager there long term, and Benitez has done plenty of positive things for the club. However....some things just baffle me.

- Our league season hangs on this one game. We are playing a team that are definitely going to throw everyone behind the ball and defend...a team that has a pretty poor defensive record. A team that are on low confidence. We need to win this match...what does Rafa do ? Play with 2 deep midfielders and only 4 attacking players from 11. One of them being the relatively untested El Zhar.

- Another being Kuyt, played in a lone striker position. A position he has shown time and time again he is ineffective in.

- Playing Skrtel at right back....why not play Carra there ? He has buckets of experience in that position.

- Leaving 2 holding midfielders on for so long when we were struggling to create chances...and then taking Carragher off and putting Mascherano at right back ?

- Not starting Benayoun. People will say that he played mid week...but so did Carra, Skrtel, Alonso, Mascherano, Aurelio and Kuyt. Plus Benayoun hasnt played many minutes this season, he would have been fine.

- The attacking state of the squad. People can harp on about the amount of money he has had to spend or this and that. The fact is, he has only brought one top quality attacker to the club in 5 years. Currently, we have one top quality striker and no top quality wingers.

None of the above is a knee jerk reaction to the result today.

Every sub-point you make is on the button.

Our boss is simply a man who has no consideration for form, no consideration for creativity and has no idea how to unlock the teams that set up like him from the start.

We were outplayed by boro at home for 85mins and robbed them. We were nothing short of brutal today. Stoke held us twice. The list is endless of negative starting formations and rigid tactics going back a long time. My opinions are not knee-jerk either, rafa is coasting on a european wave that has no relevance to the league.

Today, even carragher had dissilusion on his face when he came off. He has also sucked the talent and ambition out of 2 of europes potentially great talents (babel and agger) from poor man management.

Anyone who thinks n'gog can fill in for torres needs their head examined. He even made skyrtel, who has been fantastic, look like a complete donkey today. Kuyt plays 90 again, that man couldnt create a trifle dessert with 3 buckets of sponge, jelly and custard. Only a broken leg would see dirk dropped and this guy is one of the 4 attackers you mention in the above post.

Its time to trim the herd and add quality offensively.........there are only so many zendens, letos, gonzalez', bellamys, crouchs, keanes and pennants a man can take. Width and creativity is needed, not gareth barrys.

Neil3030

Erm.... dunno if I'm setting myself for a shoeing here but... I think Liverpool were very unlucky today. An o.g. and a counter-attack which eventually sank you, and except for some poor finishing you would have had at least 2 maybe 3? Just me? O.K....

200motels

daithijjj wrote: »

Every sub-point you make is on the button.

Our boss is simply a man who has no consideration for form, no consideration for creativity and has no idea how to unlock the teams that set up like him from the start.

We were outplayed by boro at home for 85mins and robbed them. We were nothing short of brutal today. Stoke held us twice. The list is endless of negative starting formations and rigid tactics going back a long time. My opinions are not knee-jerk either, rafa is coasting on a european wave that has no relevance to the league.

Today, even carragher had dissilusion on his face when he came off. He has also sucked the talent and ambition out of 2 of europes potentially great talents (babel and agger) from poor man management.

Anyone who thinks n'gog can fill in for torres needs their head examined. He even made skyrtel, who has been fantastic, look like a complete donkey today. Kuyt plays 90 again, that man couldnt create a trifle dessert with 3 buckets of sponge, jelly and custard. Only a broken leg would see dirk dropped and this guy is one of the 4 attackers you mention in the above post.

Its time to trim the herd and add quality offensively.........there are only so many zendens, letos, gonzalez', bellamys, crouchs, keanes and pennants a man can take. Width and creativity is needed, not gareth barrys.

Couldn't agree more a brilliant post.

mike65

Neil3030 wrote: »

Erm.... dunno if I'm setting myself for a shoeing here but... I think Liverpool were very unlucky today. An o.g. and a counter-attack which eventually sank you, and except for some poor finishing you would have had at least 2 maybe 3? Just me? O.K....

You are not wrong, trouble is the shocking finishing was down to Rafas screw up with Keane not being replaced (or being sold depending on point of view). The misses were shocking. The other point is that having gone down the team and manager lacked any wit to change things, and that speaks volumes about the manager and how he schools the players under him.

Liverpool fc needs two managers - one for europe, one for the Prem.

Chardee MacDennis

mike65 wrote: »

You are not wrong, trouble is the shocking finishing was down to Rafas screw up with Keane not being replaced (or being sold depending on point of view). The misses were shocking. The other point is that having gone down the team and manager lacked any wit to change things, and that speaks volumes about the manager and how he schools the players under him.

Liverpool fc needs two managers - one for europe, one for the Prem.

the eleven players put out today should have beaten middlesbrough plain and simple.

and what was carra at coming off? i have a feeling the club is failing apart behind the scenes...

mike65

They weren't though were they?

Mr Alan

Neil3030 wrote: »

Erm.... dunno if I'm setting myself for a shoeing here but... I think Liverpool were very unlucky today. An o.g. and a counter-attack which eventually sank you, and except for some poor finishing you would have had at least 2 maybe 3? Just me? O.K....

twas just one of those days.

unfortunately, its resulted in the title race being over unless Utd implode-which they wont.

Chardee MacDennis

mike65 wrote: »

They weren't though were they?

on ability we had the better players, was just a question of motivation it seemed...

Boggles

Fair play to Boro, they learned well from their mistakes at Anfield very early in the season, the second goal was vital something actually Southgate was harping on about mid week. Could have been 4-0 for a finish.

Liverpools next 4 games is make or break for their season

Sunderland
Madrid
United
Villa

On the plus side 3 of the 4 are at home.

I still think Arsenal will still nick a champions league spot, the question is will it be for Villa or Liverpool, I predict a very nervous couple of months for the Anfield faithful, O'Neill this week confirming Champions League qualification is his sole goal.

Edit: Benetiz airing his laundry in public about contract talks have certainly not helped matters and IMO have damaged players confidence at times, the owners and Parry should now suspend all talks until the end of the season.

PHB

Ultimately, Liverpools attack only had one top quality player in it. They still did well, and the system imo worked, but the finishing just wasn't there.

What does this mean for Rafa? I expect Liverpool to drop off and end up in 3rd at least, 4th if they go far in the CL. Chelsea look strong again under Hiddink.

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

Ultimately, Liverpools attack only had one top quality player in it. They still did well, and the system imo worked, but the finishing just wasn't there.

if you're refering to Torres (which i presume you are) its worth noting that he has also been injured most of the season.

ntlbell

Mr Alan wrote: »

if you're refering to Torres (which i presume you are) its worth noting that he has also been injured most of the season.

Torres wasn't playing yesterday?

it's also worth noting that you don't depend on gerrard and torres. (apparently)

PHB

Gerrard was playing yesterday?